Rehabbing a shoulder injury?

cnh

OK,

This is for all of you who have done some time in the gym. I've injured my shoulder, again; considering my age it's a wonder I can train at all with these joints?

The injury is probably Bench press related. I'm pretty sure my front Delts are overdeveloped and are constantly pulling my shoulders forward. I also have less than full range of motion in my right elbow (maybe some arthritis there?). Probably need to lay off the bench and do OPPOSING exercises. So that's what I'm looking for. I spent today doing mostly shoulder related movements and parallel DB presses to 55 lbs (after than I feel pain, and I need to keep those shoulders tight and up against my body so I don't aggravate the injury).

In any case. Besides Cuban Presses and L-lateral raises is there anything else I should be doing to rehab this and strengthen what is probably "rotator cuff" related-I'm assuming this is the problem-although it might also be a bicep pull or tear?

Thanks to the Gym-rats in advance.


cnh

tonyb

If it's related to a muscle pull or tear, you can only wait until it heals. Don't try doing to much weight at the gym, smaller weights, more reps is usually better for us old farts. Have you thought about taking a testosterone supplement ? Could help...or change your diet some....or both.

If it's rotator cup related, best to see the doc before instituting something that may be agitating it. Your getting old pal, ya have to adjust. Sh&t just doesn't work the same as it did in your 30's.

cnh

Good advice, Tony! But as you know, we're the generation that's never supposed to grow "old". My Doctor told me that I would NOT be able to reach my target weight because I was too old. Guess what? I am now ONE pound away from the weight she thought would be my limit and I have NO doubt that I can lose 6 or 7 more pounds to get to where I want to be. Yeah, we need to slow down, but not quite yet, although we may have to rest for a period. lol

cnh

voltz

If you want to get in super shape you should go mountain biking 27 miles with Dan LOL...now that is crazy stuff...I do envy him though.

cfrizz

Your less than full range of motion in your elbow is tennis elbow. (this is easier than trying to say it's medical name.) I just got done with a bout of PT for this injury. You have a torn tendon in there and you need to lay off the weights and let it rest. If you keep using it that much you are just going to continue tearing it and causing more damage.

Rest it, ice it, and take anti inflammatory drugs to reduce swelling for it. I had plenty of company at the office with this DX most of them were men who were doing the same light weight stretches with 1-2lb weights that I was using!

MrBuhl

Fwiw and I am not a Doc nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night... but in my experience, if it's tennis elbow - that's some painful stuff, mine hurt more or less all the time regardless of weight applied.

If it's a rotator cuff, (had mine repaired, two screws, medium tear), it hurts at certain ranges of motion but is just really a dull ache till you get to those ranges. For that I'd do as previously mentioned, very light weight, isometrics, high repetition stuff. Try holding a half full water bottle at full extension 90 degrees from you standing, shake it up and down, sounds dumb, but it works. Bent rows and inverted (face down knee on bench) flies very slowly and extremely light weight, etc.

A final thought, If you've torn the cuff, it's easy to fray the ends and make it harder to stitch - don't wait too long, it makes it much worse.

gudnoyez

voltz wrote: »

If you want to get in super shape you should go mountain biking 27 miles with Dan LOL...now that is crazy stuff...I do envy him though.

How true 20 miles of off road mountain biking on a hardtail will give you all the upper body strength you need and then some a few times a week and your set. Me my buddy and grandson just got back from our last ride of the year 17 miles fairly technical trails good work out.

The weather is spouse to turn Shi..y and cold for the next few days then comes the Phesant opener, and deer season in Minnesota so that still keeps you in shape. I lift weights in the comfort of my basement not a gym with tunes no one to spot and no lines waiting to hit the bench plus you don't have to prove nothing to nobody but yourself. In time you will heal just take it easy.

Icy hot and a cloth bag of dried rice with lavender sewn it put it in the microwave for a minute and apply to where your ailing works like a charm. But seriously some off road mountain biking is a good way to stay in shape plus its a blast.

boston1450

tonyb wrote: »

If it's related to a muscle pull or tear, you can only wait until it heals. Don't try doing to much weight at the gym, smaller weights, more reps is usually better for us old farts. Have you thought about taking a testosterone supplement ? Could help...or change your diet some....or both.

If it's rotator cup related, best to see the doc before instituting something that may be agitating it. Your getting old pal, ya have to adjust. Sh&t just doesn't work the same as it did in your 30's.

+++ 1 i agree. When i use to compete in lifting 10 years ago if i ever hurt myself i took 2 weeks off & often i came back stronger than before. Benching 475.. Sometimes healing breaks are what the body needs to mend. No different than your work out schedule. Rip n tear & heal & do it again. Keep up the good work & hope your feeling better Cnh

TNHNDYMAN

Stop spending 6hrs a day with Rick88's picture archive. Tennis elbow and rotator cuff my aspirin.

tonyb

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Stop spending 6hrs a day with Rick88's picture archive. Tennis elbow and rotator cuff my aspirin.

There's a reason why they call us "dirty old men". Don't know the exact reason myself, but it's coming to me as I age.

shawn474

Coming from someone who has practiced sports medicine for the past 20 years, I can tell you that internet advice is almost never good. There are a TON of injuries this could be - and actually rotator cuff represents a small portion of clinical diagnoses (contrary to popular belief). You really should see an orthopedic physician and physical therapist. Get their input first and have the PT put you on a home program.

cnh

Wrapped it with an Ace bandage and took an Advil, got plenty of sleep. About 50 percent better today, but I am going to take it easy for a while. Stick to the aerobics and weight loss till it either mends or gets worse. Then I'll have some X-rays or MRIs done and check with a professional. I did spend a couple of months rehabbing my elbow as cfrizz mentioned above but not much came of that.

Then last week while I was doing "PAUSE" benches with moderate weight and I felt a shoulder muscle SHIFT as I did the last rep. Certainly NOT 475 (I'm not surprised there you still have the upper body of a former power-lifter), I've never done more than 300, Randy, and I was in my early 40s and a bit heavier then (25 lbs to be exact)! lol I also don't take any protein supplements or any of the enhanced products. I'm so natural it's ridiculous and now I'm on a CALORIE deficit and have been there for over five months, dieting and dieting, treadmill, bike, elliptical x 5 times a week. Dan (mantis is a spring chicken, let's see him do that mileage at my age! I usually do about 12 miles and call it a day-plus I LOATHE aerobic exercise so guess how much fun I have five days a week?) Down to 191 at 6'1" and looking for 185.

That's a health thing. I wanted to get my waist out of that 40"-41" danger zone (probably at 34-35 for now looking for less than 34") for Heart Attacks, etc.!

Aging is a BIXXT! I think I'm going to try some Yoga while I'm off. My back and Traps are unbelievably tight and pulling on everything including that shoulder. I was in the Dentist's chair a few days ago with my mouth open for almost an hour at an incline. When it was all over the unusual POSITION actually loosened my shoulder muscles, relaxed them and I felt SO much better for the rest of that day??

Thanks to everyone above. Fingers crossed.

cnh

Pastor Bill

I post as "Wicked Willie" over on Dave Draper's IronOnline site. First things first...the barbell bench press has a deserved reputation for destroying shoulders. If you insist on benching, use dumbbells and limit ROM to the 90 degree arm/forearm bend. Second, do lots of opposing movements like rear lateral raises, face pulls and chest expander pull aparts. Your back work should be roughly 1.5 - 2 times the reps that you do for chest/anterior deltoid. This is to prevent muscle and strength imbalance. Third, (you're on the right track) get profession help to determine whether or not it is an actual rotator issue or tear or whether it's an inflammed biceps tendon where it passes through the condyle on the humerus. Once the actual problem is determined...then you can target specific rehab movements. Fourth, (and I hate this) Stretch.
I suffered with a painful left shoulder and limited ROM for two years. Did all the conventional band work for internal and external rotation to strengthen the cuff...all without results. Pain and limited ROM remained. Found a practicioner of A.R.T. (Active Release Technique.) He said I had a frozen shoulder from the natural tendency to coddle the shoulder after an injury. Two painful treatments and $80 later...I had nearly 100 percent ROM back and my pain was significantly reduced. I can do light to moderate benches now with a parallel grip bar and/or dumbbells as mentioned. Still have to be careful...but I didn't need surgery or drugs. Your mileage may vary.
Benches are terrible since they "pin" the scapulae and don't allow them to move naturally when you press. Overhead presses are better, stretch the shoulder capsule more and the limited poundage you can handle is kinder to the shoulders. However, even they can be problematic. It all comes down to structure of the shoulders. If you have a Type One acromium - which the most "open" shoulder structure - you can get away with benches, dips and the like. If you have a Type Two or Three acromium...somewhere down the road you're almost guaranteed impingement type injuries.

ADJ

This:

shawn474 wrote: »

I can tell you that internet advice is almost never good. There are a TON of injuries this could be - and actually rotator cuff represents a small portion of clinical diagnoses (contrary to popular belief).

I just saw someone two days ago who has been under PT rehab the last six months for a "rotator cuff injury". History, exam, and x-rays point to distal clavicle osteolysis (google weightlifter's shoulder). You cannot diagnose off of symptoms. Find yourself a good diagnostician and get it properly assessed.

@Pastor Bill, ART is good stuff. Tough on the practitioner's thumbs over the long haul but excellent for the patient.

Pastor Bill

A.R.T. was a godsend for me. However, each session saw me leave with tears in my eyes. My therapy was less of a massage type therapy and more of a "movement under tension" thing. By various manipulations of my arm, gradually increasing ROM each rep...adhesions were broken up. Painful...but quite effective. My practicioner was quite upfront about the efficacy of ART. Said that if I hadn't obtained significant relief in 2-3 sessions, we would terminate treatment and seek other options. Fortunately, 2 sessions did the trick.

scottyboy76

I fell in the yard about a year and half ago, my left shoulder now feels its going to dislocate with certain movements, such as reaching behind me in bed an pulling a pillow over the top of me to position it while laying on my right side.

I worry about whther i have waited too long for anything to be done, and atrophy of structures has taken its toll.

Now all of a sudden (last 2 months), my right shoulder which had a cleanout surgery of fraying cartilidge app. 13 yars ago is giving me fits.

I first noticed it when showering, when i tried using my right hand to clean my left houlder, neck etc. it not only hurt like a son of a gun, it actually failed at certain angles, letting my arm drop till I was able to change arm position and lift it again.

It also does the same thing if, while sitting upright, I simply reach across to touch my left shouler, pain nd virtually total failure of streng.

in the next few weeks, i will be getting mris, hoefully they will show which way to begin.

cnh

Thanks Pastor Bill, I'll look into that. But for now just "rest".

I don't have a LOT of faith in Diagnosticians unless they have EXTENSIVE sports injury experience. I've seen a LOT of local Doctors "misread" X-rays. I had a guy repair my Achilles two years ago and though he did an OK job, he did not quite place the tendon correctly, now I'm still trying to regain all of my calf strength and realizing that my range of movement is different from the other leg-horse doctor? That WOULD NOT be the case if, for example, I had Vince Wilfork's Doc and team working on me! lol

Fingers crossed! A.R.T.? Never heard of it. Time to learn!

Thanks guys. Scotty...that sounds like some pretty nasty stuff. I do have some of the issues you mention in the shower, but I never lose full function, I just experience the pain and have to move through it. No fun there. You'd think with all the research being done they'd be able to "stem cell" us and rebuild and rejuvenate all this tissue, ligament, tendon, etc. To the Big Pharma boys WHO LOVE THEIR PROFITS! Hey, there are 10s of million of us Boomers. It's a huge market A-holes!

Stop making those Arthritis Drugs that DO more damage to the body and immune system than they do "good", why don't you! Oh, I guess because that would not be profitable. Who cares about "health and well being"? Certainly not "us"!

Every time I see those commercials and they get to the side effects, you can't help but stare in "disbelief" that they ever got FDA approval (in record time, I might add). But then again, isn't the FDA just an "arm" of Big Pharma now!

cnh

Pastor Bill

In your search for ART...look for the names Horrigon and Leahy. Author of the 7 minute Ab Solution and other kinesiology oriented books. Both of them specialized on bodybuilders, football players and professional wrestlers (all of whom get pretty banged up)...among their clients were the late Kaye Baxter, Chris Dickerson and others.

Pastor Bill

Leahy and Horrigan, sorry.

http://www.activerelease.com/

Like most alternative therapies, it has its detractors. I'm a believer, though I realize that ART is most effective in a limited range of conditions and injuries.

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

Stop making those Arthritis Drugs that DO more damage to the body and immune system than they do "good", why don't you! Oh, I guess because that would not be profitable. Who cares about "health and well being"? Certainly not "us"!

Every time I see those commercials and they get to the side effects, you can't help but stare in "disbelief" that they ever got FDA approval (in record time, I might add). But then again, isn't the FDA just an "arm" of Big Pharma now!

cnh

I hear ya pal, and agree also but all those disclaimers at the end of drug commercials are what the legal system has required.....warn against everything, take at your own risk. Which is key because it in essence relieves big pharma from accountability.

Yet another reason why business and government should be separate entities, not joined at the hip. See the doc, get some x-rays, plan your course of action. Find an independent lab to do an MRI if needed, offer cash....way cheaper....a lot cheaper actually.

Nobody knows your own body better than you. Keep that in mind with your decisions.