Car audio. Where to begin?

ROHfan

I have a 2012 Dodge Journey and I was thinking about upgrading the sound system that it came with. And I have no experience in this field. I was going to try and just upgrade to better speakers first and then take it from there. Although, I know quality amplification will probably be in order, but I'm not sure how to incorporate it into the stock system. Are there any pitfalls to going to a local car stereo shop? Or is this a job that folks here usually do on their own? For now, I'm looking to keep it under $500. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

hochpt21

Sorry to stick my head in here, but random question....

I know you need an amp for subs in a car, but do you ever need an amp for replacement speakers? Or just a better head unit?

BlueFox

Stupid question here. How do you deal with cars that have in dash stereos whose shape is designed around the dash? I mean stereos that aren't the standard size rectangle where anything can be swapped in?

hochpt21

DSkip wrote: »

Replacing several systems on my own, I found that buying nice speakers led to worse sound. The stock speakers, as bad as they may be, are designed to go full range in most cases. Throwing in a replacement will give you cleaner sound, but unless you amp, you're going to get that classic underpowered, shrill sound. I'll never replace speakers again unless I can amp them at the same time.

So if you were doing speakers and a sub, you would need two amps? Or you could run them both off the same amp?

BlueFox

Thanks. I have given a little thought to upgrading my car (2005 Mazda 3S) stereo, but the non-standard dash unit always stopped those daydreams. Interestingly, my plan was to start by upgrading the speakers first.

Now I am going to wait a few years, buy a new car, and then do it.

zane77

Check out Crutchfield for head unit adapters for oddball dash openings.

WLDock

I was just in MI this weekend visiting family. My Mom just traded in her '12 Journey for a '15 R/T model w/ the U Connect Premium Alpine system. I had to tell her she ended up getting a Hot Rod just to get one with a NAV unit. My mom is 74 yes old, LOL! The thing takes off pretty quick and almost has Dubs on it...19" wheels.

Anyway, I think this system and the one I'm the previous year would suite the average listener just fine. However, if you plan to upgrade the speakers you need to include one of the newfangled OEM integration/EQ processors. The OEM system is EQ'ed in the software to get a certain sound. In most cases of you replace the speakers things won't sound right. So , its best most times to bypass the OEM amps...and get one of these OEM processors to re-EQ the OEM tune tune to a flat baseline. To name a few as DSkip stated:
Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY
JL Audio CleanSweep
JBL MS-8
Audio Control DQ-61
Audio Control LC6i, LC7i
MTX RE-Q5

A nice system for not too much more money would be:

Audio Control LC6i - $100 Amazon

PPI P900.5 5 ch amp - $212
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Power-P900-5-5-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B00DRMQ2N2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412655247&sr=8-1&keywords=PPI+phantom+amp

6x9" or component speakers in the front

Small subwoofer

If you can do it yourself then you can have good sound for less. If not then a shop my ght not be a bad option. Just have to find one that can do what you want for the right price.

ROHfan

WLDock wrote: »

However, if you plan to upgrade the speakers you need to include one of the newfangled OEM integration/EQ processors. The OEM system is EQ'ed in the software to get a certain sound. In most cases of you replace the speakers things won't sound right. So , its best most times to bypass the OEM amps...and get one of these OEM processors to re-EQ the OEM tune tune to a flat baseline. To name a few as DSkip stated:
Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY
JL Audio CleanSweep
JBL MS-8
Audio Control DQ-61
Audio Control LC6i, LC7i
MTX RE-Q5

A nice system for not too much more money would be:

Audio Control LC6i - $100 Amazon

PPI P900.5 5 ch amp - $212
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Power-P900-5-5-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B00DRMQ2N2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412655247&sr=8-1&keywords=PPI+phantom+amp

6x9" or component speakers in the front

Small subwoofer

If you can do it yourself then you can have good sound for less. If not then a shop my ght not be a bad option. Just have to find one that can do what you want for the right price.

Thanks much for the info. If I go that route then the above will be a good starting point for me. Although, I'm leaning towards just going to a car audio shop because I don't have much free time lately.

SCompRacer

ROHfan wrote: »

Are there any pitfalls to going to a local car stereo shop? Or is this a job that folks here usually do on their own?

Like anything else, do research on the place. Know how, experience and proper tools are a must when removing trim and dash panels without damage or running wires. We have a couple places near us that do great work. Some not so great. Sound Decisons in Aurora IL is one. They installed a Kenwood DNX891HD with back up camera in the wifes Envoy. They did a great job.Nothing broken and no traces of dis or reassembly. Yeah, I could have done it, but it was easier to pay them.

They will be doing my work car tomorrow cause it's too darn cold to work outside now. Head unit, 5 channel amp, door and deck speakers, sub.

ROHfan

So, what I think I'm going to do is get a powered sub that I can locate under one of the seats, and upgrade my 2 front 6x9 speakers. I'll upgrade the rear door speakers at a later date.

These are the subs I'm considering:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO8O9XQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=22O8422DQTSJQ&coliid=IR5T2FVJ9JNT8

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777B8PTD/Sound-Ordnance-B-8PTD.html?tp=114

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007LQWSYC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=22O8422DQTSJQ&coliid=I60Z2W0IUY4UY

And here's the Line Out Converter:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EAWS3W/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=22O8422DQTSJQ&coliid=I16XAS8U7B5DPQ

Is it better to tap into the front or rear speaker wires with the LOC?

Opinions and suggestions on my choices would be helpful as I'm trying to make an informed decision and won't be able to audition anything until it's all installed. I have NO idea which 6x9's to go with. I'm really just looking for a little better bottom end and a cleaner, more natural sound from the door speakers. I'm assuming I should use some Dynamat as long as I have the panels open.

ROHfan

I went with Focal Performance R-130S2 for the front doors, and the Sound Ordnance B-8PTD powered sub. I plan on disconnecting the rear door speakers and using those wires to connect to the speaker level inputs on the sub. I put the order in through Crutchfield who I've read has great customer service. They also have a 60 day money-back guarantee if I'm not happy with the sound. If the new door speakers don't have enough juice I can always add a 2 channel amp that's equipped with speaker level inputs.

WLDock

Let us know how the Sound Ordnance B-8PTD sub turns out. I never cared for those type subs. Something like the Alpine SBR-S8-4 and a small 4 channel amp is the way to go to bring the music out of those Focals and clean low bass in a small space.

ALPINE SPR-S8-4
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-xsKBV7krGVK/p_500SBRS84/Alpine-SBR-S8-4.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alpine-SBR-S8-4-One-8-Type-R-Subwoofer-In-A-Ported-Enclosure-NEW-SBRS84-SBR-S84-/141643705197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fa9f6b6d
It uses a "real" sub with some stroke, power handling and cooling!
http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/swr-8d2/


SOUNDSTREAM PN4.500 Picasso (80W x 2 + 250W x 1) Class A/B
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundstream-PN4-520D-520-Watts-Nano-Compact-Motorcyle-Car-4-Channel-Amplifier-/151625000803?hash=item234d8de763&vxp=mtr

SOUNDSTREAM PN4.520D Picasso Nano(100W x 2 + 250W x 1) Class D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundstream-PN4-520D-520-Watts-Nano-Compact-Motorcyle-Car-4-Channel-Amplifier-/151625000803?hash=item234d8de763&vxp=mtr

***Also, factory systems tend to have built in high-pass crossovers. So if you tap the front outputs it may be rolled of at 50Hz or so. I would check the forums (Dodge Forums, www.diymobileaudio, etc) to see whats up with the Journey. You also could use an active LOC like the Audio Control LC2i with AccuBASS - $70 on ebay.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZWXDbYEzdeS/p_161LC2I/AudioControl-LC2i.html

Get your bass back
Some factory radios dial down the bass as you turn up the volume to protect their speakers. The problem is, they don't give it back when you upgrade to a nice set of aftermarket speakers. AudioControl packs the LC2i with their AccuBASS™ circuitry that reverses the factory bass rolloff, giving you the bass you need to enjoy your music to the fullest. Place the LC2i between your factory system and your bass amp, and you'll hear a huge difference in bass response.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RHIN0HOD0RW6Y/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

Having a "premium" factory stereo in your vehicle can often times be considered anything but premium. A lot of vehicles that have a factory subwoofer, no matter how weak or under powered it may be, will set the crossovers on all other speakers in the car so high that you will not get any low end output of them at all. This was exactly the case with my 14 Dodge Journey with "Premium" Alpine system.

The beauty of the Audio Control LC7i, is that you can set it to take input from all of your speaker leads (dash speakers, door speakers, and subwoofer) and sum them all together, and then give full range of output to all speakers. The difference this makes with my dash and door speakers in night and day. I actually have low end from them now!

FOCAL components = $170
Alpine sub - $170
Soundstream Amp - $100
Audio Control LOC - $70
______
~$510

I've done many OEM upgrades and I can tell you right of the bat that the above is going to offer more performance. Components really need an amp of 50-150 watts per channel. For some "real" bass a "true" high stroke sub with some power behind it is needed. Plus just tapping the rear speakers with a LOC and and a low performing sub may not give you much of any low end at all given the built in low end rolloff. The above is the bare minimum to build an upgrade over a modern OEM system. If done wrong it can sound worst than stock.

My Mom's Journey with the upgraded Alpine system sounds lightyears better than the system in the Pacifica she had years before. To best the OEM Alpine system or the "base" system clean power will be needed. Then, the best speakers and subs you can afford plus a summing interface LOC. To take it further some type of DSP processing will be in order.

ROHfan

nbrowser wrote: »

ROHfan, oddly enough, Focal makes one heck of a automotive speaker! I installed a set of four of their base line ISC 570 coaxial speakers into my truck a couple of weeks ago, amplified of course and wow, nice sound in the mobile environment. Kind of wish Polk mobile was available locally however.

I've read good things about Focal. Wanted to go for better speakers as long as I was replacing the stock ones. The SO sub got good reviews but hopefully it can put out some tight bass. Not looking for tons of volume, just tightness as I'll probably lose a bit of bass going to the new door speakers which are only 5.25". Stocks are 6x9.

Dumb question. Which side of metal door panels to put the Dynamat? Inside of the outer shell or inside of the inner shell?

ROHfan

Can u give me your impressions of your Focals? What, specifically, do you like about them?

ROHfan

The woman at Crutchfield tried to sell me the LC2i but I felt like it was an upsell attempt so I poo-pooed it. Perhaps I should add that to my order. What you wrote makes sense. As for the under-seat sub, I don't have the room for the bigger box so I'm going to see how the SO sounds. Will report back on that.

ROHfan

nbrowser wrote: »

ROHfan wrote: »

Can u give me your impressions of your Focals? What, specifically, do you like about them?

I'm still forming my opinions on them. I do know the detail is much better over what I replaced with these also they are highly efficient so less power is required to get good clean loud sound out of them. I have them crossed over at 80Hz with a 12Db per octave slope to keep the real low bass out of them as they are only a 5x7. My system is completely aftermarket, consisting of...

Alpine CDA-9886 deck, it's old but with triple 4 volt preout and some nice higher end stuff inside makes it a keeper.

JL JX360/4 Amp (70wpc X4 into 4 ohms).

Focal ISC 570 coaxials in all four factory locations.

Crossfire CFA-202 bridged and in low pass mode (200 X1 4 Ohms).

JL CS110-WXv2 ready made passive 10 inch sealed sub behind my drivers seat.

All factory Ford speaker wiring has been bypassed straight from the JL amp to the Focals. 6 hours of work running new 14 gauge wire to three doors through factory boots was FUN!

As far as Dynamatting the doors...Use some on the panel the speakers screw to around the speaker, don't need full coverage but I'd say at minimum 25% coverage,

Copy that. I wasn't sure if there would be room for the Dynamat between the skin and the plastic door panel but I guess I'll find out. Thanks for the info.

On a side note, what do you think of me getting the LC6i instead of the LC2i? I'm thinking about getting the 6 because I'd have an upgrade route in the future for aftermarket amplification for the door speakers. For now it would just supply line out to the powered sub and the price difference is negligible. Sound good?

WLDock

If you are thinking of expanding the LC7i with accuBass is what you want.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/factory-system-upgrade/lc7i/

Either way, its good you are going with the AC unit to add a sub to the mix. The lowend cutoff is real!

ROHfan

WLDock wrote: »

If you are thinking of expanding the LC7i with accuBass is what you want.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/factory-system-upgrade/lc7i/

Either way, its good you are going with the AC unit to add a sub to the mix. The lowend cutoff is real!

You convinced me. Thanks for the heads-up. That's a great feature, one that I didn't know was available. I can use it to get a line out to my sub from the rear door speaker wires, then utilize the other channels when I decide to go with an external 2ch amp.

ROHfan

Well, the install didn't go well and I decided to drop it off at the car stereo installation shop that's right down the road from me. Hopefully they can make sense of it, but after the install I had no sound anywhere. And what I thought was a stock four speaker system turned out to be a six speaker system with a crossover circuit. I should hear from the installer today.

WLDock

Yes, the modern OEM system on average is more complex. However, you got the right tool, the LC7i that will sum the inputs. Those guys will get it right for you, they do OEM's stuff everyday....its just where the market has gone these days....decks are so intergrated.

SCompRacer

Focals are awesome. The car stereo shop wants to outfit the wifes Envoy with Focals, and get rid of that Bose/GM speakers/amp. Real speakers and amp they tell her...lol It don't sound bad, she is more into music than gear anyway. She wears hearing aides too so gear don't matter much to her.

I went with an all Kenwood Excelon setup. KDC-X997 head unit, X700-5 amp, 10" sub I can stack things on, 6x9's rear, coaxial in doors tweeters in dash.

ROHfan

Wow. Time to eat some crow. The installer said there was a short in one of the speaker wires from the rears. Not sure where, exactly, but it makes sense. Car should be ready tonight.