Ground loop hum... or worse

EndersShadow
EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
in Electronics
So I think I'm in trouble here fella's.

Had the B&K connected to my APC unit playing a movie. Nothing crazy volume wise, about my standard volume for TV which is 50 out of 75.

The APC unit tripped and went into overload.

I disconnected the amp and rebooted the APC.

Everything good..

Plugged the amp directly into the wall.

I have a hum from my right channel only.

Doesnt matter which outlet I plug it into.

Tried a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter, still hum

I get the hum anytime the speaker wire is connected to the right channel even if the RCA's are not connected.

I checked the speaker level fuse and the it looks fine.

Am I screwed here and gonna have to have the amp looked at?

Any ideas or suggestions recommended.

I've got it direct into the wall with just my front 3 right now and no problems at all.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Comments

  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    How did you post this three times? Your bug, or Vanilla's bug.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
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    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Combo of both... I tried to remove a couple things so it didnt need "Approval" and each submission created it own thread...

    Just like my post on my Carver M1.0t sale thread.....

    Pics incoming....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Replace the fuse as a first step.....sometimes they can look ok,but in reality they are not....not a complete open....
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Pics

    IMAG0878.jpg

    IMAG0879.jpg

    IMAG0887.jpg

    IMAG0889.jpg

    IMAG0892.jpg

    IMAG0894.jpg

    IMAG0895.jpg

    IMAG0896.jpg
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    Ok...front three are doing fine? APC out of the mix? How many channels are you running off that amp?
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited September 2014
    All but that ONE channel are fine. I just disconnected the other surround so I didnt have just one surround.

    After the APC issue, the amp was connected directly to the wall.

    Put my Carver back into the mix for right now.

    Some additional pics of that actual board on the amp I was able to get pics of after removing a couple more screws...

    IMAG0899.jpg

    IMAG0898.jpg
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    I take it that there is no audible hum from that channel with the
    Carver...that rules out the speaker on that side....
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited September 2014
    One way to check is to short all the inputs and see if there is still him. Also, try the amp in a different outlet, inputs shorted. If you still get hum, it probably a problem with the amp channel. If you have some old cheap rca plugs laying around you can make some plugs.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Tried 2 diff outlets (both on same breaker though) still hum.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    If there is a unit ground fault....all channels would be affected wouldn't they?? I do not think there is a problem with source voltage....probably would be the best recourse to have it looked at ....
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited September 2014
    If there is a unit ground fault....all channels would be affected wouldn't they??

    Correct. The amp has a bad channel, which could be any number of things such as a cold solder joint, loose binding post connection or a bad output device.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    F1nut wrote: »
    If there is a unit ground fault....all channels would be affected wouldn't they??

    Correct. The amp has a bad channel, which could be any number of things such as a cold solder joint, loose binding post connection or a bad output device.

    Yup, just gonna have to have someone look at er....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    I guess the seller failed to mention this one detail....sucks!

    Given that it is on one channel it's possible it might be something simple. I would reflow the ground and clean the signal connections on the board related to that channel. Also, given the age check and reflow all the input/output terminal connections, and check/replace the caps.

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited September 2014
    It's not the seller... It was likely me....

    I've had it running for a couple days.

    Problem started after it tripped the APC which given it was a movie that was going was likely due to a quick transient.....

    I have some one w repair skills who will be in Ft Wayne in a couple weeks. I'm gonna met him and have him take a look at it.

    I am also getting quotes just to see what it would cost to get it fixed local. I do need to find a shop in Indy to use.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • TNHNDYMAN
    TNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,145
    Sorry you are having problems with it Dan. Hope it ends up being a quick and easy fix.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Found a schematic online and found someone thats willing to take a look at it for me.

    He's lives in MI but will be in Ft Wayne on October 11th so he's gonna bring his tools and take a look at her for me.

    I am hopeful its a simply reflow of a joint as I didnt see anything that was toasted on the actual amp board.

    Its also easy to pull the board off the chassis which is really nice. It uses Molex pins like the SDA's for lots of the connection and electrical spade connectors as well, so again with a couple quick disconnects you can pull the entire heatsink and both channels boards off.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited September 2014
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Problem started after it tripped the APC which given it was a movie that was going was likely due to a quick transient.....
    You know... I bet most don't have issues with amps like this driving 8-6 Ohm speakers. However, I bet 4 Ohm surround systems like yours pull some serious current during peaks at high levels. B&K states to connect the amp to a dedicated 15 or 20 amp line. You might actually have to consider this? Interesting thread here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?17665-B-amp-K-200-5-amplifier-on-15-amp-circuit

    Well, good you have someone to look at it. Heck, I need to pull apart my other 5008 AVR myself to deal with some single channel noise. I'm sure its just output devices that failed or values changed....during movie peaks/distortion, etc. Same thing I repaired on another Onkyo AVR.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    I am fairly certain it was a transient peak that did it if anything.

    It was during Cloudy w a chance of meatballs during the storm scene.

    I wasnt listening at insane levels but I am betting something there pulled some serious current.

    I have my entire setup crossed at 80hz so it shouldn't have done it, but you never know...

    I've posted a couple times about dedicated outlets in my system.

    Its not a possibility right now due to the layout of my house without spending a ton and lots of drywall repair, or adding some UGLY conduit outside my house on either side of it.

    You can search my threads for it if you want to see why.

    With that said its the 200.7 that needs the 20 amp circuit since its 375x7 @ 4 ohms. I am only a 5 channel, but I wont be connecting it to the APC unit again.

    I was hoping due to my normal volume level that I'd be ok (only pulled about 40-50% during normal usage with the B&K connected), but I was worried as it can pull more wattage than the unit could handle and I have more than just the amp connected to it.

    So I'm likely going to have to get a 2 3m powercables (B&K amp + Dayton SA-1000) when my setup gets back up and running. Also likely a better outlet so they dont pull it out of the wall hehehe....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Sometimes things just break. That is the nature of electronics. It works fine, turn if off, then later turn it on, and it is broke. I am waiting for Bryston to return my BDP-1 for just that scenario.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    True, but I'm guessing your Bryston has a warranty :smile: and knowing them its a long one....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Since it is a digital/analog hybrid, it has a 5 year warranty. However, it is only a little over a year old, so I would prefer it to have not broken so soon. :)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    This is true... but my B&K has no warranty lol.....

    And from what a couple folks are telling me the Mofsets it uses may be unobtainium unless ATI has some (and I will likely be asking them if they do so I can buy some just in case)
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    Enders, nice score. Sorry you're having problems. Hopefully it's not too costly of a fix.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited September 2014
    Eh, as Tony Beets from Gold Rush said
    Lessons cost money, good ones cost lots
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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