Is it better to use a preamplifier or NOT?

dhart86

I am looking at some of the ps audio perfectwave dac mkll. They have a "preamplifier section built in" Somewhere I read that it is better to plug it right into the power amp because it eliminates one stage that the signal has to travel thru.

I am looking for the best sound quality and was wondering if the pre-amp adds anything to the sound quality mix.

What do you guys think?

SCompRacer

Nice DAC! 32 bit volume so no worries. To pre amp or not, much depends on if you like color or not. Some like color, some like neutral where the pre imparts little or no signature. Type of volume control matters, as in pot or resistor ladder type. IMO lots of things to consider in a pre amp.

My DAC is similar with 32 bit volume control and I have connected it direct to my amp with great SQ, but I do have a turntable. Yes I could convert the analog to digital and connect to my DAC, but I prefer my analog unchanged.

mhardy6647

If you don't need additional gain, "drive", or impedance matching - or additional signal processing (including volume control) -- you may not need, or want, an additional active preamp.

mhardy6647

I used a "passive preamp"* (autoformer volume control with source selector switch) for quite a few years, but the truth is that the voltage amplifier (driver) in my SE 2A3 amp definitely benefits from a little more oompf from the source (note my signature) -- I am now using an active (amplifying) line stage myself -- but there's a beguiling transparency with the AVC that definitely has some charms.

I.e., I think it depends on source component(s), amplifier, and taste. And (as it is often said) de gustibus non est disputandum. ;- )

* That moniker passive preamp really used to bug me... but, as long is one is willing to define preamp as any component ahead of the amplifier, I am OK with it (i.e., I got over it!).
*

soundfreak1

It depends on the preamp, some ad some detract, some do nothing much. My ladt pre purchace was a boon to my system (see sig) previous one all had good points and bad. Have no issues with current "class a" pre. It is wonderfull in all aspects. So like all other pieces it depends on what you like or not.

Moose68Bash

Right now, I have my PS Audio MKII DAC directly connected to my Perreaux monoblocks, and I like the sound quality. However, I plan to switch back to the Perreaux SM6 MKII pre to get a comparison.

My opinion is simple: It's whatever sound you like.

And I aim to find out which sound I prefer, and that's the rig I'll stick with.

soundfreak1

Hi moose, I take this opportunity to thank you once again for the perreaux. It still makes me smile. Especially with the amp upgrade.

tonyb

There is no right or wrong answer to this. Most I would guess want a pre in the mix as the analog output stage in them are usually well built.....and most like a bit of color to their sound despite what you hear about the benefits of all your gear being neutral.

polkfarmboy

There is a right answer Tony, it sucks as a preamp. Bs audio Paul mcg will say almost anything that makes his product look like it's the best. I put this through loads of tests and it's utter garbage com paired to a good pre. The worst ever I heard it was with wyred4sound sx1000's but the best I heard it sound was hooked up to prima luna mono,s.

tonyb

Relax PFB, remember sound is subjective.....whats crap to you may be anothers cup of tea. Personally though, I would agree that most dacs can't pull off that pre amp function as well as their marketing suggests. Just my opinion, I'm sure somewhere there is a dac that can, I just never heard one yet.

polkfarmboy

Maybe too much coffee made gave my last response too much pizzaz lol. I think your right its entirely up to who listens but its also never a good idea to buy a dac with intentions of using it as a preamp. I found the sound to be anemic and overly bright with most solid state amps. With the Theta is was horrible on both the Dreadnaught and the Intrepid. It was shrill on all the w4s amps and on the Cary 200.2 it was borderline acceptable like it was with the krells. The only way to pull it off as a pre is with the Mcintosh 501's or some tube amplification as its going to take the edge off it, if you have a warm amp and speakers this it might be an option.

dhart86

Thanks guys....I found all feedback to be very useful. I think I will keep my pre. I will put this dac in my Rogue audio (99 mag pre & ST 90 amp) I will test between the two. I had thought about selling the 99 pre to finance the purchase of the dac and let the dac pull pre amp duty. Thought the ps pw dac would sound nice plugged directly into the tube amp.

Guess I'll just have to purchase the dac and see which sound I prefer.

Moose68Bash

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Hi moose, I take this opportunity to thank you once again for the perreaux. It still makes me smile. Especially with the amp upgrade.

Good to hear from you, soundfreak1.

I'm glad the Perreaux preamp does a good job for you, especially with your upgraded amp!

Perreaux makes great "stuff" -- IMHO!

EndersShadow

SCompRacer wrote: »

Nice DAC! 32 bit volume so no worries. To pre amp or not, much depends on if you like color or not. Some like color, some like neutral where the pre imparts little or no signature. Type of volume control matters, as in pot or resistor ladder type. IMO lots of things to consider in a pre amp.

My DAC is similar with 32 bit volume control and I have connected it direct to my amp with great SQ, but I do have a turntable. Yes I could convert the analog to digital and connect to my DAC, but I prefer my analog unchanged.

I think Rich somewhat hits it on the head.

If you were to buy a DAC with multiple digital inputs w/ good volume control, then that might be all you need.

In Rich's case, if I had his DAC, I'd not need a pre-amp because my TT days are likely over.

Hence why products like the Benchmark are so attractive, they combine 2 pieces into one saving you some cables.

As to how this particular piece fairs, you'd have to buy it, try it both ways and see.

Maybe it knocks it out the park, maybe it sucks, all depends on your gear, ears and sources.

dhart86

EndersShadow wrote: »

SCompRacer wrote: »

Nice DAC! 32 bit volume so no worries. To pre amp or not, much depends on if you like color or not. Some like color, some like neutral where the pre imparts little or no signature. Type of volume control matters, as in pot or resistor ladder type. IMO lots of things to consider in a pre amp.

My DAC is similar with 32 bit volume control and I have connected it direct to my amp with great SQ, but I do have a turntable. Yes I could convert the analog to digital and connect to my DAC, but I prefer my analog unchanged.

I think Rich somewhat hits it on the head.

If you were to buy a DAC with multiple digital inputs w/ good volume control, then that might be all you need.

In Rich's case, if I had his DAC, I'd not need a pre-amp because my TT days are likely over.

Hence why products like the Benchmark are so attractive, they combine 2 pieces into one saving you some cables.

As to how this particular piece fairs, you'd have to buy it, try it both ways and see.

Maybe it knocks it out the park, maybe it sucks, all depends on your gear, ears and sources.

I think your right.....Thanks

voltz

I like using a preamp for about everything - even headphone amps - Now I could just plug my SACD player into my headphone amp or even my TT but I just like going thru my Vincent Sa-31 preamp. I even send all my sources to my preamp even when I'm using my Tube Integrated amp and then just send one IC from pre to integrated. I may have to try using just my SACD & just the Headphone amp to see how I like it.

Moose68Bash

Last night I put my Perreaux SM6 MKII preamp back into my system to replace the premp function of the PS Audio DirectStream DAC's preamp function.

The improvement with the Perreaux preamp is dramatic. Overall, a much richer sound. Perhaps, a bit softer, but far more pleasant to my ears -- and especially to my wife's!

I'll be sticking with a preamp in both of my systems from now on.

Dennis Gardner

I find that using my Audio Mirror PP1 preamp helps all sources to have a similar flavor. With tube phono section and gain stages, once I roll the flavor I prefer into each stage, my SACD/CD and Thorens TT tend to sound more similar than different. I also need the gain stage as I have moved the sources to the other end of the room and lose too much signal with the longer run without a little boost.

dhart86

Finally got the PS audio PWD ll and after a quick comparison with and without the pre-amp, I definitely prefer the sound with the dac plugged into the Rogue 99 tubed pre. As h9 says: tubes add soul

The Perfectwave mkll dac is a legit piece of equipment.....