need help with surround sound please

whgarrett1394

I have a marantz sr5001 receiver that i use as a pre amp for my main ht system. I also
have a sony bdp-bx110 that i connect to the marantz via hdmi. The marantz has no lossless audio decoding capabilities so i decode my blu rays in the player and output pcm. i am looking at my marantz manual and it looks like the receiver only recognizes pcm signals that are stereo. I have to use a dts, dolby, virtual, etc.. mode to get surround to work.

I am worried that i am not benefitting from the blu ray audio quality. Not to mention the blu ray audio discs i have that are 24bit/192khz.

Anybody have any input or suggestions? Maybe someone who has this receiver?

I really like the marantz and will one day get a blu ray that can output multi channel analog so i don't want to buy a new pre. Thanks in advanced.

whgarrett1394

No i'm confused because i just found this spec sheet from crutchfield that says each channel is capable of 192khz/24bit

http://us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster/US/SR5001.pdf

tonyb

Here's your issue.

The newer blu-ray codecs are only transferred in the digital domain by hdmi. Digital coax or toslink won't do it. So if the BRP is hooked up to the receiver by a digital cable other than HDMI, your falling short of the mark. If you had all analog outputs on the player, that would be different, but you don't.

A BDP with analog outs....yeah try and find one. Oppo does it on some higher end models, but then you can upgrade the receiver for what that costs. Analog outputs for a disc player are on the way out, so future compatibility issues will continue for you.

You need to upgrade the receiver. I know it's hard letting go of a trusted old friend, but the newer Marantz models are every bit as good, if not better.

whgarrett1394

Thanks for the reply tonyb. I do, however, have the player hooked up to the receiver via hdmi. I also have the player set to decode everything internally and output lpcm.

Unfortunately from there i am at a loss. I think an oppo is the only way to go. I am looking into the 103.

It is just frustrating to not know what is going on. Oh yeah. My Beck Sea Change blu ray works fine. Masterhd and pcm 192khz/24bit. Go figure.

tonyb

OOPS....sorry, missed that. Your receiver having hdmi. Trouble is it doesn't decode the HD Master audio on BR discs. PCM is fine for some higher rez audio in 2 channel, but you won't get the 5.1 you would if the receiver was doing the decoding or you had 5.1 analog outputs on the player. The way I see it, you have 2 choices....upgrade the receiver and keep the player you have or upgrade the player and keep the receiver you have.

whgarrett1394

Thanks again tonyb. Like I said it is just frustrating. According to wikipedia even hdmi 1.0 can support 8 channels of 192khz/24bit audio. The Marantz I have is version 1.1 hdmi. I'm pretty sure the sony bx110 can decode everything and output it all as pcm. anyhow. thanks for your reply. its hard to get help around here sometimes.

tonyb

The frustrating part is audio these days makes it harder and harder to use older gear, forcing you to upgrade every few years. Compatibility issues will continue for you, now or down the road again until you upgrade key parts of the chain.

Getting 24/192 out of that receiver in 2 channel, no problem, getting it in all surround channels may be hard. Depends on the format your trying to get it from.

whgarrett1394

Okay….so i've gone through every blu ray disc i have and i see a definite pattern.

When decoding internally and outputting pcm every master hd audio 5.1 disc plays fine with each channel illuminated on the receiver.(normal)

Each trueHD 5.1 disc fails to work properly. Only L & R illuminated and playing.(abnormal)

When player is switched to auto each master hd audio disc is recognized but only the core dts is read and illuminated.(normal)

Each trueHD disc is recognized but only the core dolby is read and illuminated. (normal)

So….either the player cannot decode trueHD correctly or the receiver cannot read the pcm signal when its sourced from the trueHD codec.

The only exception to this pattern is Dark City which is Master HD Audio 7.1

It is recognized by the receiver as pcm when decoded internally by player. All 6 channels are illuminated on the receiver, but the center channel fails to produce any sound. I chalk this up to the rare 7.1 Master HD Audio.

whgarrett1394

Just in case anyone was wondering...Lol. I borrowed the same exact player that i bought for my dad and it did not decode the TrueHD correctly either.

I pulled out my old Samsung blu ray from the garage and hooked it up. The Dolby TrueHD sent as PCM worked perfectly.

However, all three players couldn't get my receiver to allow the center channel to produce sound when playing the DTS master audio 7.1 discs(Tron and Dark City).

dpowell

Sounds like a receiver upgrade is in your future. My advice is to sell the Marantz while it still has some value rather than get to a point where nobody wants it. Use the funds from the sale to help fund a new Marantz (or try Pioneer Elite)

whgarrett1394

Thanks for the response dpowell. Most people have said the same as you. However, I am going to purchase an oppo 103 and use the analog output. Then in the future I may get a newer preamp. Thanks again.

Mystery

Is SR5001 significantly different than SR5500?
I think SR5500 is even older.

My SR5500 does all channel DTS from Blu-ray without any issue using optical cable.

tonyb

Yes, but not all Blu-rays offer a DTS soundtrack. You have to read the fine print on the disk packaging. Just so your aware.

Besides, if your going to go Blu-ray, you want the newer surround codecs anyway.

Mystery

Or you can buy bluray player like the one I have, Panasonic DMP-BDT500.
It has full 7.1 rca out so you can use any 5.1 or 7.1 input in older receivers.

cnh

whgarrett1394 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply tonyb. I do, however, have the player hooked up to the receiver via hdmi. I also have the player set to decode everything internally and output lpcm.

Unfortunately from there i am at a loss. I think an oppo is the only way to go. I am looking into the 103.

It is just frustrating to not know what is going on. Oh yeah. My Beck Sea Change blu ray works fine. Masterhd and pcm 192khz/24bit. Go figure.

If your Bluray Player can output 7.1 channel LPCM to the HDMI 1.1 you're not missing much in terms of Dolby HD or DTS Master Audio because that process unpacks the sound to analog almost as well as a newer AVR would convert it "directly". In fact 1.1 HDMI was marketed with THAT feature as a "buying" point! And almost ALL good early BDPs could do that!

So you don't really need a new anything immediately, unless you want to do 3D?

I see from your OP. That you say the Marantz AVR only outputs 2 channel from the LPCM stream? If so your Marantz has an EXTREMELY early HDMI protocol, because I have a Denon with HDMI 1.1 that can do 7.1 LPCM with no problems. I do believe you may be right there. I kind of remember some receivers only doing TWO channel PCM audio and others having full 7.1. Guess you are out of luck?

In that case Mystery's solution above would work if you have MULTI-CHANNEL INPUTS on the Marantz?

cnh

whgarrett1394

Just in case anyone was interested I figured out why my receiver was only able to produce sound from mains when movies with Dolby TrueHD were played on my Sony BDP.

As a recap, I have an old receiver that cannot decode DTS Master or Dolby TrueHD so i must decode in the Sony player and send via hdmi to the receiver in PCM.

This works fine with the DTS masterHD but not with the Dolby TrueHD.

I found out yesterday on the interweb that my Sony player can only internally decode Dolby TrueHD and output it as 2.0 PCM.

Here are the links I found that support this claim

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/328213-sony-bdp-s5100-blu-ray-disc-player-review/

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...p-s1100-bdp-s3100-bdp-s4100-bdp-s5100-90.html

tonyb

What you need since your receiver doesn't do the decoding is a BRP with analog outputs such as an Oppo.

whgarrett1394

Yes, tonyb. That is exactly what I want to do, but for now the Sony is totally fine.

I am just happy to find out the reason that I was only getting stereo. I knew it had to be the player but I couldn't find any info for the longest time. It was making me think I was crazier than I am already.

I am pretty sure that my receiver can accept hi res pcm via hdmi because those High Fidelity Pure Audio blu-rays have 5.1 pcm tracks to choose from at 24bit/192khz and they play fine.

tonyb

But your not getting DTS HD Master audio, which is worth it for movies and concert BR discs.

whgarrett1394

Just found another site that talked about Sony players after 2013 only able to internally Dolby as 2.0 PCM.

Here is the link

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=240800

Can't anyone confirm this that has a post 2013 sony bdp. Sure would appreciate it.