Onkyo TX-NR818 and TSx550t Clarity

VimyRidge

Hey folks. Got a couple rookie questions.

My Onkyo is claimed to be capable of driving two channels at 135 W. I talked to Onkyo CS and they said that all channels can be driven at 135 W but I kind of doubt that. Regardless, I have been disappointed by the sound quality of the TSx550t. I just don't find the speakers very crisp and the lows quiet. I feel like Polk went out and made a good looking speaker without having quality crossovers and other componenets. As far as I can tell, the midrange receives all the signal below 2.5 kHz and the woofers get what Polk calls a cascaded design which basically sounds like a cheap 2.5 or three way design to me. All this to get suckers like me who didn't do enough research before their purchase. Has anyone else had the same experience?

Or maybe don't have enough quality power to drive the speakers? I keep reading conflicting reports on the advantage of using two amplifiers for each speaker. Anyone with experience with that?

Or maybe I'm just expecting too much from what really is an entry level speaker? How, realistically, am I going to increase my sound quality? Adding something like an Emotiva Amp or moving to different speakers all together?

Thanks in advance!

tonyb

First before you do all that you mentioned, did you set up the receiver.....check all the settings ? How are the speakers set up in the room....associated gear and cables ? What are you using to play music....cdp, music server ?

VimyRidge

tonyb wrote: »

First before you do all that you mentioned, did you set up the receiver.....check all the settings ? How are the speakers set up in the room....associated gear and cables ? What are you using to play music....cdp, music server ?

I have set up the receiver and checked all the settings including Audyssey X32 etc. The room isn't a great room for a ht but I have set it up as best I can. The mains are probably around 15ft apart and toed it to aim just to the left and right of my ears at the main listening position. I have 12 gauge wire with gold plated banana plugs that I put together (monoprice rocks). For my music I am using ALAC from an Apple TV. For movies I use a generic bluray player.

Msabot1

Check all settings...try a good quality cd or concert 5.1 video in your blu ray....

VimyRidge

I really have checked all the settings and talked to Polk and Onkyo support. They seem to think everything in terms of settings is just fine. I've gone through it with a fine toothed comb. From my reading about the TSx550t it could very likely be that the low end just simply isn't that strong on that speaker. It could very well be the fact that I have been listening to some KEF and PSB speakers recently and am not comparing apples to apples anymore.

Msabot1

Another comment....don't run yourself down...experiment a little...audio is a lot of lessons learned over a period of time....and is continuous .......

slk55amg

Are you running with a Sub woofer? If so, make sure your receiver is set to "small" You have more than enough power to drive those speakers.

VimyRidge

I am running with a sub. I originally set the crossover to 80 Hz but found they sounded better if I moved the crossover to 60 Hz. The polk seems to do pretty well down to there but really drops off below 50 Hz.

jeremymarcinko

Don't aim those speakers near your ears. Get them away from the back wall at least 12 inches and toe them in no more than a inch. 15ft. Is to far apart shoot for 10-12ft. with your listening position at the same distance. Get it sounding really good, then run the auto eq. Audyssey isnt a cure all, it should only be used for levels and fine tuning. If it doesn't sound good before you eq it will not sound good after. Be sure you use a tripod with the mic. then do a trial run with audyssey but only use three measures, if you can, at the same position, your sweet spot. This will get you very close. Taking measures around the room does make the system sound better around the room, but comprises the sq at your sweet spot. Good Luck.

tonyb

The monoprice cables aren't doing you any favors. Make sure all your digital files are lossless, not mp3's converted. Your speakers are also pretty far apart, any chance you can get them around 10 feet apart at the most ?

Try this, go into your receivers settings, make sure the speaker levels are at 0 and set them to large, tell the receiver you have no sub. Try and move them closer together, throw a cd in the dvd player and see how it sounds. Report back.

VimyRidge

Thanks tonyb. The digital files I am using are lossless files. FLAC's. I can temporarily have the speakers around 10 feet apart but just the way the room works I can't have them that way long term. My amp has a "pure audio" setting where it sets all EQ flat and turns off the sub and sends the entire signal to the 550's. Trust me when I say it is very underwhelming. Particularly the low end. With some EQ work they do sound stronger down low but nothing to write home about. With flat EQ there is no way these speakers are 36 Hz to 25 kHz + or - 3db. At least to my ear I have to bump the EQ on the low end as much as 8db to make it sound flat.

cnh

I am not familiar with this new line of towers from Polk. But the older models in the Monitor and TSI series needed some power to get weighty bass from them. A LOT more POWER. Like 200 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms.

My Onkyo, which is actually more powerful than yours because it has the OLD AMP configuration and more weight than succeeding 8XX series amps. Can just about get some decent bass out of my M-70 towers. But when I throw that Adcom GFA-555 on there, watch out. The towers OPEN right up, more weight, tighter, clearer mid-range and highs at "lower" volumes. Without the amp, using just the Onkyo, I have to push the Onkyo reasonably high to get "bass". And this Onkyo will clip at 165 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms.

It might be an amplification problem. Those newer Onkyos don't have the amp sections of the older models unless you're up at the TOTL models above the 1XXX even! Also, in general, Onkyo AVRs can be a little "bright", emphasizing the higher frequencies a little more than the lower ones, in my experience.

cnh

VimyRidge

So do you think going with something like an Emotiva XPA-3 (L/C/R) would be something in which I could see a significant difference then? I would be more eager to jump at the chance to get something of that sort if I didn't have to pay all the international shipping fees and duties. It's a bit high-risk. Haha. Can't simply return it no charge.

cnh

That Emotiva certainly has enough power, but it might sound too "bright" when paired with an Onkyo AVR? I'd be looking at a used Parasound or B&K amp, etc.

cnh

VimyRidge

I would love to get into a Parasound or B&K amp but they are simply too far out of the budget range right now. Anything cheaper that gets a bit warmer sound?

tonyb

Cheaper than 4-500 bucks ?

BTW....how big is this room ?

VimyRidge

Probably Under $800.

tonyb

You can easily pick up a used Parasound or B&k amp for 4-600 bucks. With spare change left over for some decent interconnect cables.

How big is this room the Polks are in ?

EndersShadow

VimyRidge wrote: »

Probably Under $800.

Well if your ok with up to 800 I will share with you an amp that will be ALL you should want...

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649120966-bampk_7250_amp/

Find someone from the forum you can be really nice to in Seattle and see if they can pick it up for you and then ship it, or have a company in Seattle do that for you...

But with shipping (assuming its like under 150 after insurance, etc), your right at your max budget....

Oh and that amp would drive any of the Polk lineup with power to spare (RTi A9's, LSi 15's, 25's, LSiM 705, 707, etc...)

VimyRidge

Ya. The continuing issue I am dealing with is most second hand audio products don't ship to Canada or if they do the shipping is unreasonable. I could look into that amp but I'm sure it would be close to $1000 by the time it got to my door.

tonyb

Many hi-fi shops in Canada sell used gear, especially Parasound. Buy local, you just need to look in the right places.

3rd time.....how big is the room the Polks are in ?

VimyRidge

Haha. Oops. Sorry. The room is 12x14x8 but is quite open as well. Really, with the openings more like 16x18x8. So a decent sized room.

Thanks for the advice. I haven't seen any second hand stuff yet, but I will look around.

EndersShadow

My bad missed the Canada part... But ibwent to a public school so I don't always get everything heheheh

tonyb

VimyRidge wrote: »

I haven't seen any second hand stuff yet, but I will look around.

Google up some audio shops close by. On their web page they might have a used or demo section. A fellow Canadian picked up a nice 2 channel Parasound for 400 that way. Also cruise your local craigslist.



http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=parasound&region=&country_iso=CA&site_id=

VimyRidge

Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. I had never heard of hifishark.com! That site is really useful! I'll be looking around! Any suggestions for specific 2 channel and 5 channel amps apart from the B&K 7250?

VimyRidge

Calgary, Alberta. Would love the help!! I know you guys said you aren't a fan of the Emotiva amps bit I have found a possible UPA-5 up here for 500 all in. Might be a bit of a deal considering shipping and utilities brings the XPA-5 to over 1000. Thoughts?

VimyRidge

Actually, closer to $1400 for the XPA-5 and $1000 for the XPA-3.

EndersShadow

VimyRidge wrote: »

Calgary, Alberta. Would love the help!! I know you guys said you aren't a fan of the Emotiva amps bit I have found a possible UPA-5 up here for 500 all in. Might be a bit of a deal considering shipping and utilities brings the XPA-5 to over 1000. Thoughts?

Well firstly let me say we dont HATE emotiva, its more of many of us feel that there are some older amps from some other companies that provide a better value than Emotiva.

Unlike HT AVR's which have features constantly being updated every year, the basic formula for amplifiers hasnt changed a whole lot. In addition most amps have a decently long life span, so their age isnt a HUGE deal.

Lets use the car analogy. Emotiva amps given the age of most of their models are like a newer car from a newish company (like Smart) thats somewhat new to market. They've been used a bit, have a decent reputation but are still to some extent establishing themselves.

Most of the other older amps from brands that have been around longer are like cars from Chevy, Ford, etc. You know what your getting to some extent as they have proven themselves over years. That and depending on the age of the car you may be able to get into a older top of the line model for a decent price due to its age.

Now since they are both used, the have both been depreciated so that doesn't play into things in this case too much.

Now about that particular Emotiva. Given the price I'd say its a decent bargain. For a starter HT amp and given the speakers your running it might be a good match. I dont think its RIDICULOUSLY overpriced, so if it tickles your fancy, I dont see anything wrong with going for it. Its also newer so it should be good to go for many years. I dont recall reading anything about lots of breakdowns or issues with that particular amp.

With that said my PERSONAL preference is for amps from Parasound, Rotel, B&K and a couple other places. But that Emotiva is a fair price from what I know, but I am not as familiar with them as others.

You may want to inquire if the warranty is still in place as Emotiva offers a 5 year transferable warranty.

The ONLY other thing to think about and consider is that should the amp break down, where would you ship it for repair? If its not something to consider as if a different amp is able to be repaired within Canada it might be a better long term option. I am not familiar with what repair shops are in Canada and what repair work they do, but back to the car analogy, a Chevy, Dodge, Ford can be repaired at many places, but a newer Smart car will likely have a smaller number of places that are able to repair it.

By no means do I think the Emotiva will break anytime soon, just that its something you may want to think about given your in Canada and shipping to and from you from within the US can be a PITA and quite costly.

Best of luck!

VimyRidge

EndersShadow wrote: »

Well firstly let me say we dont HATE emotiva, its more of many of us feel that there are some older amps from some other companies that provide a better value than Emotiva.

Unlike HT AVR's which have features constantly being updated every year, the basic formula for amplifiers hasnt changed a whole lot. In addition most amps have a decently long life span, so their age isnt a HUGE deal.

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You may want to inquire if the warranty is still in place as Emotiva offers a 5 year transferable warranty.

By no means do I think the Emotiva will break anytime soon, just that its something you may want to think about given your in Canada and shipping to and from you from within the US can be a PITA and quite costly.

Best of luck!

Thanks EndersShadow (great username btw if you are referring to the books).

Great post! It has one year remaining on it's 5 year transferable warranty so I am happy about that. I might just hold on a bit longer here to see if there are any amps that I see for a good deal on your favourite list that comes up or if I can get him to drop the price a bit more.

You are right about shipping being a concern. I've been humming and hawing about getting a PSA sub from down in the states but the shipping is really a killer. The XV15se goes from (I believe) $800 to a little under $1000 USD. So it is really nice to find a company whose products can be repaired and serviced in Canada.

VimyRidge

nbrowser wrote: »

Vimy, check out http://www.iavscanada.com/ They are based in Surrey BC (Suburb of Vancouver) reasonable prices and shipping to Cowtown won't be too scary. They currently have a sweet Adcom GFA-555II amp listed for a reasonable price. Same place I got my Parasound HCA-1200II from, they refresh and fix anything with gear before they sell it, solid service and a great bunch of guys to deal with.

Awesome! Just checked them out. Look like a pretty great little shop. From your experience how much do they work with you on the price of their equipment?