Blu-ray vs. Cable TV Picture Quality

Hermitism

Why is it I can buy a Blu-ray of a movie and the pictures is still grainy, but if I see that same move on Dish Network the picture is perfect? Example, I own the Alien Anthology on Blu-ray and Aliens is grainy, but I just happen to catch it on Dish a few days ago and the picture looked perfect? Where are cable channels getting their versions of the movies?

Tornado Red

Herm, do you have HDMI for both sources? If your Dish Network is broadcasting in 1080i, the pic may look better to you if it's now a little softer. I know this film was grainy, and Cameron had it remastered a few years back, much to the chagrin of a few purists who didn't want the thing DNR'd to death. Not sure which version you have, or which Dish was showing. Some people like grainy, and some movies are intentionally made that way even today (ex. Tom Cruise's War Of The Worlds).

Hermitism

I'm using HDMI for my Blu-ray player (1080p), but using a fiber optic toslink for my Dish connection (1080i). I think studios purposely put out movies on disc that aren't as good as they could be just so they can put out another version in another couple of years. I think they make people double dip, so they can double their profits. I find this unacceptable.

This is the Blu-ray version I have which was praised for it's video..."Great colors, amazing clarity, sharp resolution--these all look freshly minted, straight out of the film can. I was astounded." I was less impressed.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/46163/alien-anthology/?___rd=1

Although the first movie, Alien, looks the best of the four. These movies do look better than their DVD versions. I also have the Alien Quadrilogy on DVD, which I'm actually selling, no need for both.

edit: actually let me clarify. I'm running a toslink from dish to my AVR, and have HDMI from dish to my TV. The reason I'm not running the HDMI to my AVR is I don't want to turn on my AVR just to watch a TV show or the news.

Tornado Red

Interesting. I'm not familiar with dvdtalk. Maybe it's just me and they're paraphrasing, just wondering why they review a blu-ray and call it The DVD. Sometimes a picture can be classified as very good, even though it has a lot of grain. Here is an excerpt from blu-ray.com on the War Of The Worlds blu-ray video they gave 4.5 out of 5:

"War of the Worlds isn't always razor-sharp; several scenes and backgrounds wander towards a soft, mushy texture, though again, such seem in-line with the director's vision and style and not necessarily reflective of an error in the transfer-to-Blu-ray process. The transfer isn't always impeccably defined, but it's instead raw, gritty, uncertain, not always under control, not always perfectly-staged and framed, which only accentuates the film's style and story. Black levels are consistently deep and true without ever appearing too bright or, on the other end of the spectrum, absorbing fine details where they shouldn't. The picture does enjoy a strong film-like look thanks to a thick layer of grain that's maybe even a bit heavier than that seen in Minority Report and Saving Private Ryan. War of the Worlds does not offer high definition "eye candy" in the traditional sense, but it is reflective of the way the film is supposed to look, which is the ultimate compliment to any Blu-ray, no matter how rough around the edges it may be."

Again, with your interlaced 1080 Dish signal, it may look softer and not as grainy, which a lot of people like. I do agree there are myriad of ways they seek to reissue movies to make your pocket a little emptier :P

Hermitism

Tornado Red wrote: »

Again, with your interlaced 1080 Dish signal, it may look softer and not as grainy, which a lot of people like. I do agree there are myriad of ways they seek to reissue movies to make your pocket a little emptier :P

I think you're right. Thanks for your input! I think the Dish video quality is closer to an excellent quality DVD, rather than a Blu-ray. It's just funny how much the video differs in movies. I have the The Dirty Harry Series: Ultimate Collector's Edition 7 Disc Set on DVD and I think the quality is outstanding, especially for being older movies. I think it looks better than a lot of Blu-rays. I understand that the director's intent is to make some movies look grainy, but I don't think it translates well for home viewing. Maybe I should just turn down the sharpness setting on my TV when watching Blu-rays.

nguyendot

Grain does not always mean the quality is worse. Dish will have a lot of artifact blocking and that smooths out the fine grain known for film movies.

Compare a digital movie (Wall-E) and see if there is a significant difference.

Hermitism

Am I in the minority? Do you guys enjoy watching a grainy movie on your high def TV's?

Tornado Red

The grainy War Of The Worlds, like a lot of the Aliens movies, is not exactly chocked full of bright colours. I don't mind if they choose to have this type of movie as a bit grainy, but I don't think I'd want a steady diet of it for sure.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Some movies are supposed to look grainy, simple as that. Compare something like Avatar and see what you get

cnh

To many factors here. Yes some movies are grainier than others. Sometimes the grain increases as the lighting decreases.

1080i is always a "softer" picture than 1080p. 1080p can be backed off, use you settings to "smooth" it out and you'll be fine.

If your TV is still set to the "punch you in the eye brightness/contrast" that it was on the display floor, for God's sake turn those settings DOWN! They're too high for your Blu-rays! And render an unnatural picture.

Back off the SHARPNESS if there is too much grain! Some people think they can set sharpness to 100 because, hey it's only Digital right? And it should NOT affect the picture?

Remember that all video on a TV is still VIDEO rendering and not FILM. Old school 35mm and 70mm has a softer/darker/smoother appearance in the theater. Some transfers to VIDEO discs do NOT retain the filmic image well.

Of course more and more films are being shot on super HI-RESOLUTION digital cameras and in 3D. As Assimilated points out, Avatar suffers in the transfer because of this and all the CGI. Of course Mr. Cameron thinks he's found the ULTIMATE medium. But hey who wouldn't if they were worth BILLIONS! lol

And he's more focused on the Theater experience, because filmmakers want to GIVE something to the audience they cannot experience at home! That is becoming less and less possible unless we're talking iMAX everywhere?

cnh

Hermitism

I went and checked my TV settings for watching Blu-rays. I know this won't mean much because all TV's are different.

Backlight 7/10
Bright 50/100
It doesn't have a contrast setting but does have "picture" which is 70/100
Sharpness 15/30

I think there is a setting on my Blu-ray player that will let me change my output to 1080i, instead of 1080p. But I feel like if I do that I won't be using my equipment to the best of it's abilities, but I'll play around with it.

You were talking about CGI movies, I remember renting 300 (the original, not the new sequel) on DVD and found it to be almost unwatchable.

edit: My TV is a LCD, btw.

Tornado Red

Herm, that Sony's been around awhile (6-7 years?) It may not help much at this point, but it might be worth a try to calibrate. Google the model # and 'calibration', I noted a few folks had settings on the AVS forum you could try. Just make sure you write down the initial settings in case you don't like where the new ones take you.

Hermitism

I got it in June 2008. My dad liked it so much that when he saw it, he went out and bought the same model about six months after me. The room he wanted it in was too bright for a plasma. One month after the warranty was up his panel went bad. The right third of the screen wouldn't refresh. A problem with the top right ribbon cable. Sony wouldn't stand behind their product, so I removed the bezel and applied a couple rubber tabs on the bezel to apply pressure on the ribbon connection. It fixed the problem for about a year, then the same problem. I could never get it working again. I kept the TV in case I have a board failure, I can salvage the parts. I've never had a problem with mine.

jon s

The grainy image is inherent from the source, i.e. film. When movie makers shoot on film, they have the choice on the type of film to use. For dark movies, they usually opt for high speed film which is grainy. When you watch a movie at it is grainy on the Blu-ray disc, it is likely a faithful transfer from the original film. See the below image. The numbers on the left represents the film speed. The higher the number, the "faster" the film. Faster film requires less light to capture an image but that same film has more grain than slower films. The right side is the image that has been scrubbed. The image loses all detail and looks cartoonish.

Some studios have been "scrubbing" their older movies... They run the transfer through a digital process to remove the grain. This usually ends up with the film having a waxy, cartoonish look. Videophiles usually like the film to be as faithful to the original source as possible. Some people don't like the grain and want the films to be scrubbed.

You can't satisfy everyone. That's the nature of the beast...

Hermitism

Well, I'll say this, my vision is pretty good and I don't need glasses. But when my eyes start to deteriorate and I have to get glasses, I won't wear them while watching grainy movies so my blurry eyes can "scrub" the grain away

Tornado Red

Hermitism wrote: »

Well, I'll say this, my vision is pretty good and I don't need glasses. But when my eyes start to deteriorate and I have to get glasses, I won't wear them while watching grainy movies so my blurry eyes can "scrub" the grain away

LOL, good one. Play with your settings a little, can't hurt, they mean a lot. Remember, there's only a one letter difference between blu ray and blurry :P

voltz

I notice a lot more grain in some new blu-rays like the newest "Superman" and a couple of others... I even went to the bedroom set-up to compare as I just started noticing it more then before... but I just got glasses for the 1st time LOL then it was like HEY!!!! wait a minute...

kevhed72

Tornado Red wrote: »

Herm, do you have HDMI for both sources? If your Dish Network is broadcasting in 1080i, the pic may look better to you if it's now a little softer. I know this film was grainy, and Cameron had it remastered a few years back, much to the chagrin of a few purists who didn't want the thing DNR'd to death. Not sure which version you have, or which Dish was showing. Some people like grainy, and some movies are intentionally made that way even today (ex. Tom Cruise's War Of The Worlds).

Yes, the graniness of this movie is quite annoying on a big screen IMO. I'm not sure though if it was the film stock or an effect added after the film was shot.

Erik Tracy

The opposite effect is quite annoying too - take the original blu ray release of Patton with so much DNR that people looked like smooth waxy skinned mannequins and no grain at all in the shots.

pitdogg2

Hermitism wrote: »

I'm using HDMI for my Blu-ray player (1080p), but using a fiber optic toslink for my Dish connection .

Fiber only carries the sound no picture. Your options with dish or either component or HDMI.

Dish's content is also highly compressed MP4

Polkie2009

I was going to mention this about toslink cable yesterday, but held off thinking Hermit knew it only carries audio and it got misconstrued.

Hermitism

Yep, as soon as I posted about the toslink, I realized I wasn't being very clear and went back and added a note. I know some video purists think the source should be connected directly to the TV, but that isn't the reason I have the dish connected straight to the TV with HDMI. I just have it that way for convenience, so I don't have to turn on my avr to watch the news. I didnt do a great job of explaing myself. My dish receiver only has 5 channel audio output, so I didn't see any problem with using a toslink to my avr for audio. I do notice that dish has a lower volume level compared to a DVD or blu-ray.

I haven't seen a bluray yet that looks waxy, but I can imagine that would not be pleasant. I rent a !of of movies from my library, but they only have DVDs. All the blurays I watch are purchased used for $4 at a local pawn shop. They won't buy audio or video disc if they have a single scratch, they are very picky, which works out great for me.