Rehabbing Fried Model Qs

Pastor Bill

Howdy all:
(and especially directed toward cnh)

Things have just become interesting. Managed to purchase two FriedModel Q3 woofers (newly refoamed) to replace/match in my Fried Model Qs first offering. Hopefully, everything will fit and that original "sound" I appreciated will return. I'll also play with replacing/tweaking the foam in the transmission line port. I "could" have purchased a pair of 5jr+ plus for the same money...with the addition of a 3 plus hour round trip. Sentimental value and the urge to tinker, I guess. Will post again following the install...good, bad or indifferent.

You inspired me, cnh!

cnh

I look forward to your work on this. And I must say that I am beginning to appreciate the tweeter on the Frieds more and more.

A friend of mine who is an Engineer who has turned to refurbising speakers and selling them, currently has a set of A/3s on sale on ebay (but I told him his PRICE was unrealistic as it was about the MSRP for those or more when they were new). He says the Frieds trump any similar sized Snells--which is a pretty big claim since I've heard some JIIs (Snells) that were pretty impressive a while back.

There are also some Fried tweeters, I believe, on ebay?

Good luck!

cnh

Pastor Bill

I've really been all over the place on this. There isn't a lot of useful information on IMF or Fried speakers or parts. The revived company has yet to return an email and they seem to push only one rather expensive speaker. I've been in contact with the company in Denmark that sold the original tweeter...but at least one of the companies that Fried used for the woofer (Dalesford) is out of business. I've seen some Fried tweeters and series crossovers on Ebay...hopefully I won't need to resort to that. I'm hoping that installing the pair of woofers and repacking the foam will result in speakers that I will enjoy for another 30 years...if Jesus doesn't return before then.

Pastor Bill

Received my woofers today. Installed them basically without incident, though I forgot the gasket on one. (May replace it later...but to my ears, it hasn't made a difference.) They were basically a "drop-in" but tight fit. My bride and I spent the last hour and a half listening to various CDs and making remarks like "I never heard that so clearly before" and "Do you hear that piano?" "I mean, DO YOU HEAR THAT PIANO?"

Positives: They sound much clearer than when they weren't matched woofer units. They obviously look better. The "old sound" is very nearly back. They actually sound a tad "bright" but that is probably due to the speaker's setting. I've got them set on plus rather than neutral or minus...may need to reset to neutral. Or then again, the new clarity may be revealing flaws in the recording since they aren't "bright" across the board.

Negatives: The sound is a touch "forward" if I'm using the term correctly. Treble and midrange seem to dominate slightly and reach your ears first. (Again...resetting to neutral might address some of this) I plan to experiment with changing the foam out in the "transmission line" port (though the Qs aren't "true" transmission line speakers. I'll also experiment more with placement in the room.

I'm not much for all the audio "buzz words" and don't know a lot about things like in phase sound, forwardness, etc. I just know what sounds good to me. My Frieds have basically been restored to what I remember as their original sound. I could have bought a pair of Monitor 4s for ten dollars less, or traveled 3 hours round trip and bought a pair of 5jr+ for the same money. However, this satisfied my urge to tinker (for now, at least) and also spoke to my "vintage" and "restoration" mindset.

The really bad thing is...now I'm considering other projects....(wink)

@cnh - thanks for your info and inspiration. I'll keep posting results of any further experimentation.

cnh

Thank you, Pastor Bill,

Glad you were able to find the right drivers. I have to agree that the Frieds are a little forward and bright, but changing cables and amps can tone that down some. They do have a good amount of detail, and image well.

The bass does sound quite different with and without the foam, and with the newer foam I'm using. I would imagine that playing with the "density" of the foam would allow more or less air to leave the box?

Enjoy!

cnh

Pastor Bill

Changing amps? Nay, nay. Wallet won't allow that...unless I stumble across a "deal" somewhere. My speaker cables are just plain ole' 18 gauge wire from the hardware store. Better than the 22 gauge that most start with, eh? I'm assuming that no foam in the line tunnel port would cause a booming bass and that increasingly dense foam would temper the bass progressively, though not necessarily in a linear fashion. Dunno.

Pastor Bill

When I get feeling frisky enough, I'll change the setting on the speaker attenuator to either neutral or minus. Plus, I will replace the foam in the line tunnel...that item at Ace Hardware is only five bucks. That appeals to my frugal nature, don'tcha know. I've been getting some good information over on AudioKarma, also...though some are recommending scary things to me like recapping the crossovers.

I'm a disaster waiting to happen with a soldering pencil.

Faustin

Welcome to the rabbit hole. Crossover rebuild can be done by several of the fine Polk forum members.

Pastor Bill

Changed the attenuator setting to neutral. Softened the highs a bit and made the speakers less "tiring" to my ears. My bride however, doesn't agree...wants those "bright, sparkley " highs. Sigh.

drumminman

Rebuilding the Xovers with quality film caps and resistors would probably give you both what you want: smooth clarity and sparkling highs.

cnh

x-overs! Sure. You should think about that. But there is NO guarantee that you'll like the sound even after the rebuild. That Fried tweeter likes to etch its highs. I was thinking that, in terms of my tastes, popping in a nice VIFA fabric dome that might match the specs for the Fried might be an interesting experiment. Pretty soon, I'm going to cart down my Monitor 5As and put them up against the Frieds. I'm pretty sure the Peerless highs are going to sound better to me? I'd audition them against the Monitor 7s below, but I REALLY feel that would NOT be fair. The 7s are so much BIGGER, they should trounce the Frieds in the bass department--should be no contest there. Monitor 5s are closer to the Fried's frequency range/response and cab size.

cnh

Pastor Bill

I don't know very much at all about capacitors and crossovers. From reading, I know that Bud Fried used a series crossover in the Model Q...but I can't tell you what that means. For right now, I'm content to fiddle with foam and adjustments, until I've learned a little more. Been looking for cheap components at garage sales, etc. so that I can "practice" doing some of these modifications and gain some confidence.

Pastor Bill

Treble seems just a tad harsh with the attenuator set to "plus" but rather boring when set to "neutral." Would any advantage be gained by up ending the speaker so that the tweeter is in the bottom position?

cnh

I'm not really sure. But it's worth a try. What I notice on smaller speakers is that you get a little less bass in that position. Or maybe it's just "tighter", who knows.

I will tell you that running these on a vintage receiver in a smaller room with a lot of things in it to break up a lot of the reflected sound and so on, tends to make those tweeters sound more neutral than bright.

I've also found that if the foam inserts are TOO DENSE it attenuates the bass too much, doesn't let enough air flow out.

Right now I have them at ear level about 6'-7' away from me in my office, tilted in a triangular configuration to me. The room is 17 x 10 x 8.5 but there are barriers that break the listening space to about half the length; so 9 x 10 x 8.5.

They also sound pretty darn good at low volume.

cnh

Pastor Bill

Well, I spent some time changing the position of the Frieds. Prior to this, one was laying on its side in a recessed area of shelves above the fireplace mantle. The other was separated by about twelve feet and about 1 foot higher. Got some new shelf brackets and a wider shelf board...and moved some things around so that I could stand that speaker up vertically. Now, there was only three inches difference in height. Obviously not ideal but better. The improvement in sound was subtle but noticeable. Next project is to replace the line tunnel foam and see how that affects the sound. Plus, I need to do a little work to allow placing the speakers to allow a proper "diamond of sound." However, I am pleased with the progress I seem to be making. Was listening to a best of The Moody Blues cd...and hearing all kinds of things that I hadn't really noticed before.

G-Mac13

What kind of foam material did you find worked best?

cnh

Welcome. Man this is an old thread!

You can start with regular air-conditioning insulation foam which seems to have very similar properties to the original foam in the Fried speaker. And probably move on from there if that's not enough bass or too much! My old ears don't hear much of a difference between this and some original that wasn't fully disintegrated. You will notice when you get the foam that it is easier to squeeze one side than the other. Use that easy side for the face and the back vent and the harder side to grasp the bottom and top of the vent.

Such foams can come in other densities, so that's where you would experiment. Less dense more air pockets and flow, more dense the opposite.

Something like this:

http://www.hardwarestore.com/air-conditioner-weather-seal-635199.aspx?utm_source=pla&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=product_type=general hardware&utm_campaign=rkg&adpos=1o5&creative=53252314938&device=c&matchtype=&network=g

It's even about the right size as well, so that it will stay in there once you cut it length wise.