FLAC vs. MP3 320

Is it just me, or does FLAC sound way better than MP3, even at 320kbps?
Most people say you can't tell the difference, it's inaudible, abx test this, double blind that... blah blah blah.
I'm sitting here listening to the MP3 and FLAC rips of the same albums, and while the differences are subtle, they are definitely detectable.
Perhaps it's just the encoding on the mp3's (320kbps LAME) that I did years ago?
Some of the source material is Herbie Hancock, Deep Forest, and Shpongle.
Bass is tighter with the FLACs and the top end is more crisp and refined as compared to the MP3's.
Thoughts?
Most people say you can't tell the difference, it's inaudible, abx test this, double blind that... blah blah blah.
I'm sitting here listening to the MP3 and FLAC rips of the same albums, and while the differences are subtle, they are definitely detectable.
Perhaps it's just the encoding on the mp3's (320kbps LAME) that I did years ago?
Some of the source material is Herbie Hancock, Deep Forest, and Shpongle.
Bass is tighter with the FLACs and the top end is more crisp and refined as compared to the MP3's.
Thoughts?
Speakers: Polk RTi10
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Post edited by mikey1987 on
Comments
2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
Village Idiot of Club Polk
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
I can't even tell the difference between Youtube's audio (which is god awful, even at their "HD standard") and FLAC on my laptop's speakers.
But streaming from my Laptop on Bluetooth to my Logitech DAC, I can tell. While I previously believed this cheap Bluetooth device was the weakest link in my system so encoding wouldn't be discernible - well, I was wrong.
I'm sure a better DAC would yield even better quality overall, it's still strong enough to expose the weaknesses of lossy encoded music.
I am glad I re-ripped all my CDs in FLAC that I own. "Borrowed" music will have to stay in MP3-320 until it can be purchased or "re-borrowed".
Call me crazy, but I have come to believe that World Music and New Age are just as good if not better for demo-ing than Jazz and Classical. Lot's of dynamic range in there along with deep bass and good treble.
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Don't get me wrong - it doesn't sound awful for most music like Rock and Rap and you can't tell. But FLAC really brings out the best in certain genres.
I'm sure it doesn't help that modern "popular" music is highly lacking in dynamic range. When compressed using MP3 there isn't as much detail to be lost since the entire tracks and albums are so loud.
I get a real laugh out of people that pay $12.99 on iTunes for an album in a lossy format, when they can probably get the same album on Amazon on CD for $8.50 and then rip it in whatever format(s) they want. They now own a hard copy and have a digital copy as well.
Oh well, people pay for convenience, I guess....
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Yes they do.
Can't tell you how many homes I've been in, both inside and out, that I see an IPOD dock with crappy little speakers as the main listening venue. Their IPHONE is like Santa Clause to them, a swiss army knife. Stick it in the dock and bam, they have music....crappy music, but sound none the less. Then they think it's cool to take it outside on their deck for parties. It never cuts the mustard as you can't hear it over the people talking and gets drowned out fairly easily. What kills me is everyone of them think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
+1 Simple as that
(4) Polk Monitor 10B's w/SoniCaps, Mills, and RDO-194 tweets (R/L F/R)
(2) Polk Monitor 4's w/peerless tweets (Top Middle)
Polk CS300 center channel
Analog: B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
Digital: Pioneer CLD-99 Elite LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-Ray
LG 65EF9500 4K OLED
Vizio P55-E1UHD Pioneer Elite SC-LX502 Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD Pioneer Elite N-50 Panamax M5300-EX
Living room 2ch:
Integra ADM 2.1 Teac EQ MKII Squeezebox Touch Fluance SX Speakers Panamax M5100-EX
Upstairs media room:
Vizio D1 32" Pioneer Elite VSX 32 Sony PS4 Squeezebox Touch Polkaudio Rti 6's fronts Polk CSR Center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax M5300-EX
Master bedroom:
Vizio VF550M Pioneer Elite VSX 33 Pioneer Elite BDP 80FD Squeezebox Touch Polk audio Monitor 40 II fronts, Rears Dayton B652 Polk Audio CS10 center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax 5100
What the **ll are they listening to? Normally, this closely follows the thread about how
all properly designed amps and dacs should sound the same.
Ahh, so you see the same garbage on the other usual forums that I do? Glad to see I'm not the only one.
Not looking to point fingers or anything, but it's usually the headphone kiddies arguing that you can't tell the difference....
Nothing is ever going to sound the same, period, but can and will sound very close (to the point of being indistinguishable) as you climb here up the ladder.
Law of diminishing returns and all that jazz.....
With the cost of storage these days, it is a huge surprise that people would even consider lossy storage. Rip it in lossless once and for all and then you never have to worry about it. Then you can focus on improving everything else in your "chain" when you find yourself with money to spend.
I'd hate to know that a simple selection of AAC instead of FLAC (entirely a choice of mine) yielded music which is the weakest link in my set up.
The funniest part, by far, is their common retort of "let me guess... a FLACkie... you probably also spend $1000 on power cables because you can "hear" the difference"...
Don't even get me started on the "better sound through research" fanboys.
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Vizio P55-E1UHD Pioneer Elite SC-LX502 Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD Pioneer Elite N-50 Panamax M5300-EX
Living room 2ch:
Integra ADM 2.1 Teac EQ MKII Squeezebox Touch Fluance SX Speakers Panamax M5100-EX
Upstairs media room:
Vizio D1 32" Pioneer Elite VSX 32 Sony PS4 Squeezebox Touch Polkaudio Rti 6's fronts Polk CSR Center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax M5300-EX
Master bedroom:
Vizio VF550M Pioneer Elite VSX 33 Pioneer Elite BDP 80FD Squeezebox Touch Polk audio Monitor 40 II fronts, Rears Dayton B652 Polk Audio CS10 center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax 5100
The only thing that drives innovation more than corporate greed is consumer demand.
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
You hit the nail on the head, we have a generation that truly have no real mearsure of quality reproduced sound.
I personal have both formats on my Squeezebox system, but do to the lack of FLAC compatible vehicle systems I need those 320k Mp3's, I remeber when 192k was the limit on vehicle systems.
Vizio P55-E1UHD Pioneer Elite SC-LX502 Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD Pioneer Elite N-50 Panamax M5300-EX
Living room 2ch:
Integra ADM 2.1 Teac EQ MKII Squeezebox Touch Fluance SX Speakers Panamax M5100-EX
Upstairs media room:
Vizio D1 32" Pioneer Elite VSX 32 Sony PS4 Squeezebox Touch Polkaudio Rti 6's fronts Polk CSR Center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax M5300-EX
Master bedroom:
Vizio VF550M Pioneer Elite VSX 33 Pioneer Elite BDP 80FD Squeezebox Touch Polk audio Monitor 40 II fronts, Rears Dayton B652 Polk Audio CS10 center Polkaudio PSW 10 sub Panamax 5100
The only reason this site isn't like that is we tend to listen 1st and talk
2nd. And people that can't hear aren't taken seriously.
I'm gonna go on a limb and say that people who listen to headphones don't usually blast them, for fear of hearing loss.
Less likely to push the limits of their headphones and headphone amps...
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
And that becomes their basis to call all things audio myth. DBT becomes their only focus.
One user reported that he heard a difference between two amps. Answer:one must be broken.
Granted, some things done for better sound are at best silly. But to declare all amps and dacs equal?
Sorry, I'm a gear w**re. And I've been known to rotate everything sometimes just to make sure
what's what. Most amps sound different. Dacs sound different. Cables matter (within reason).
A recent visit to a headphone meet confirmed most headphone users are just as passionate
about their sound as speaker listeners.
I'd say the biggest group of people that "can't tell the difference" is the HT group.
Agreed.
Village Idiot of Club Polk
how the current generation hears/views music.
Posted it on Facebook , Audiophiles North America.
Distortion of sound- by Harmon
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mDZcz-V29_M
Cheers,
Polk LsiC
Polk Fxi3
Pioneer SC-1222
Parasound 1200 II w/ Kimber Kable HERO + 4TC
SVS PB12-NSD (Bash)
PS4
Sharp Aquos 55"
"If your BOLD enough to try it,
your BOLD enough to make it happen"
Polk LsiC
Polk Fxi3
Pioneer SC-1222
Parasound 1200 II w/ Kimber Kable HERO + 4TC
SVS PB12-NSD (Bash)
PS4
Sharp Aquos 55"
"If your BOLD enough to try it,
your BOLD enough to make it happen"
Village Idiot of Club Polk
1. They're listening to files on a portable device in public with ShiXXy earbuds!
2. They stream their music to a wireless blue tooth unit that compresses it.
3. Their audio system is cheap and cannot resolve lossless files well enough to hear the extra information.
4. And here I refer to experiments by Raife. people do not know how to "listen" and what to "listen" for when they play a song.
5. The loudness wars have affected even FLAC files in that many modern recordings lack the appropriate scaling from soft to loud, so that people think all that matters is that something sounds LOUD.
I'm sure we could add more to this list and, have done so above.
Good set of speakers, good power, good source, proper ICs, and educated ears, etc. All musts for music appreciation!
cnh
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
On first play of "Abbey Road", I couldn't believe how horrible it sounded... this classic album I had been missing for so long. Bad mix? Horrible master? Headphones and speakers both, I found it nearly unlistenable....
Then, as I was scrolling through files, I noticed I had somehow change things in dbPoweramp, and had ripped it in mP3. I hadn't really experimented with comparing files, but there it was. I ripped it to lossless and was amazed......The difference was startling. It had just been so long since I had listened to an mP3.... and no more for me thank you.
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
Me too!
(4) Polk Monitor 10B's w/SoniCaps, Mills, and RDO-194 tweets (R/L F/R)
(2) Polk Monitor 4's w/peerless tweets (Top Middle)
Polk CS300 center channel
Analog: B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
Digital: Pioneer CLD-99 Elite LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-Ray
LG 65EF9500 4K OLED
Thanks. Great watch.
The one thing that irked me was Linkin Park and Steve Aoki - these guys are part of the problem. Their albums are loud as **** and already compressed with respect to dynamic range because these albums even make it to CD....
So they're not really ones to talk...
Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
Neighbors: pissed off
Steveinaz - that is awesome with your dad
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
It felt as if that is how I try to tell my friends/family.
But ultimately, they just want
iTunes-buy now- transfer to iPod-put on some super jank BUT colorful ear buds.
Polk LsiC
Polk Fxi3
Pioneer SC-1222
Parasound 1200 II w/ Kimber Kable HERO + 4TC
SVS PB12-NSD (Bash)
PS4
Sharp Aquos 55"
"If your BOLD enough to try it,
your BOLD enough to make it happen"
B&K