I'm Lean, I'm Mean and Oh So Green. Solar Panels are In the House....

mlong

I'm Lean, I'm Mean and Oh So Green. Solar Panels are In the House....

Well actually they are on one of my houses and I've been green for a while (but now they call me Kermit). We had the first day of solar panel installation today. Solar City worked very quickly and got a lot done. So now I have a geothermal heating/cooling system, rain barrels, a compost bin and now solar panels. The best thing is the solar panels cost me nothing (as in free). I'm pumped. Here are some photos of the progress.

Mark

deronb1

Very cool! Do most people get that many panels?

BlueFox

I have 23 panels for a 6.5kW system. How did you get them for free?

WastelandWand'r

Looking good. Hope to be building in Minnesota in the next three years and hope to take advantage of several of these.
Nathan

Strong Bad

Mark,

AWESOME! I have Solar City installing mine in about 1.5 months. You're lucky you don't live in Baltimore County. We, along with 3 other counties, have a fire regulation that requires panels to be installed 3 1/2' from each side of the roof and chimney. Simply dumber than hell regulation! Without the regulation, I could have an 18 panels system...now I can only get 11 panels. Still, if that regulation ever changes, they'll come back out and to alter and upgrade the system.

Like you...no money out of pocket! HAHA, my usage from April '13 - '14 was...5300 kWH. I'll get about 65% of my power from this system though. Without the regulation, could have nearly 100%!

Thanks for the photos!

John

teekay0007

WastelandWand'r wrote: »

Looking good. Hope to be building in Minnesota in the next three years and hope to take advantage of several of these.
Nathan

Do they work when covered with snow six months of the year?

Inspector 24

Umm...more info on this free business?!

BlueFox

I suspect it is a lease, versus buying the panels. There was a good article in the paper last weekend about leasing versus buying solar. Basically, it said buyers aren't interested in taking over the lease, so the seller has to discount the sale price to get a buyer. Whereas buying solar adds around $25k to your home value.

Toolfan66

And if/when it's time to put on a new roof? Seems like it would be a pain in the **** at that point..

Also how do solar panels hold up to hail and strong winds?

deronb1

Toolfan66 wrote: »

And if/when it's time to put on a new roof? Seems like it would be a pain in the **** at that point..

Also how do solar panels hold up to hail and strong winds?

Those are all good questions. We are 100% electric at the new house. Not used to the new electric bills yet

deronb1

mlong wrote: »

I'm Lean, I'm Mean and Oh So Green. Solar Panels are In the House....

Well actually they are on one of my houses and I've been green for a while (but now they call me Kermit). We had the first day of solar panel installation today. Solar City worked very quickly and got a lot done. So now I have a geothermal heating/cooling system, rain barrels, a compost bin and now solar panels. The best thing is the solar panels cost me nothing (as in free). I'm pumped. Here are some photos of the progress.

Mark

Did you have Astrum install?

miner

How for free?

madmax

You guys are going to burn out the sun by pulling all of its energy out!

recoveryone

In many cases the "Free" part is you signing over the tax rebates from the local, state and federal tax credits that you would get if you forked over the cash up front.

WagnerRC

Our system will be installed the first week in August. 5 year payback

30% Federal Tax Credit – Expires December 31, 2016

The Federal Tax Credit puts your tax dollars to work for clean energy. The tax credit covers 30% of the full install cost (materials and labor) of the solar PV system and site preparation, and there is no upper limit. The system should be installed on the taxpayer’s primary or secondary residence or business by December 31 of the same tax year the homeowner plans to use the credit. If the federal credit exceeds the customer’s tax liability, the excess amount carries forward to succeeding years until 2016, but it is unclear whether the unused tax credit can be carried forward beyond that time.
Washington State Production Incentive – Expires June 30, 2020

Washington State’s unique, progressive and beneficial solar subsidies are designed to incentivize solar manufacturing and reward early adopters. The state pays homeowners to produce solar power, regardless of whether homeowners use the power or not. The value of the solar production varies depending on where the system was manufactured, with made-in-Washington systems fetching the highest return. The production meter is installed by the utility on the home between the solar inverter(s) and electrical. It measures how much power the system has produced, like the odometer of a car. The incentive is capped at $5,000/year, and we have a little under 7 years left of the incentive.

$.54 – made-in-WA panels, made-in-WA inverter
$.36 – made-in-WA panels, out-of-state inverter
$.18 – out-of-state panels, made-in-WA inverter
$.15 – panels and inverter made outside of WA

teekay0007

Lasareath wrote: »

WOW! My usage from April 2012 to April 2013 was 14,300 kWh

That's mostly from that kW-guzzling car you drive! ;-)

oldmodman

I cannot have the panel on my roof. There is too much shade.

I had an estimate for a 10kw setup to be installed on an aluminum "awning" in my backyard. Full sun dawn to dusk 365.

Unfortunately I was waiting to be approved for all the rebates from US, California, Los Angeles County, City of Los Angeles and the manufacturer when the funding ran out. It would have cost me a total of 16K out of pocket but after the "new" rebates went into effect a year later my share had rocketed up to 47K so I declined the install. So..no solar.

Strong Bad

The whole "FREE" thing is, they come in and install the system. You get locked into a 20 yr contract with a set price per kWH. They get the federal tax credit. They also take a massive insurance policy out that covers the system and your house in the event something happens as a result of the system. Sure, you can get into the fine grain of things, legal mumbo jumbo, scenarios as to why they can screw you over with this, blah blah blah blah blah...but it's in their best interests to keep you as a paying customer. They want to make the cost of the system back plus make money.

Solar City is a company like most others, they are in it to make a profit. You just have to find the "Whats in it for me" thing. When you buy a new car, the car company makes a profit...but whats in it for you? Polk makes a profit on it's speakers...but whats in it for you?

Benefits to me - Set rate for 20 years which is already lower than BG&E, who just announced another round of proposed rate increases for January 2015 and July 2015. Any way you look at it...the utilities will be going UP, while my rate stays the same. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before BG&E (and other power utilities) has to spin up it's own solar installation division.

The panels are 30yr panels. They're built to withstand large hail and I believe, winds up to around 110 mph (possibly more). A large person can stand on the panels without damaging them. If hail, wind or other "acts of god" damages them, they are covered and replaced for free. The panels also cover most of my roof which blocks the sun and other "things" from hitting it. My upstairs will stay a bit cooler in the summer as a result.

It comes down to a few simple things...

1. Do you have the money to pay a company to install a system and you own it outright? This could run $20k, $30k or more.
2. Is your house located in an area that is free from obstructions and is pointed in a good direction to benefit from solar? My house is and is actually perfectly nestled where I get panels on BOTH sides of my roof.

For those on the fence, just call Solar City or another solar company in your area and have them come out. You're not obligated to buy anything when they do a survey and write ya up a proposal.

In reality, I'm not in it to save the polar bears or a few ice cubes in the antarctic...i'm in it for me and my wallet!

mlong

No, my roof was big enough to support that many so they should supply 100% of my electricity.

deronb1 wrote: »

Very cool! Do most people get that many panels?

mlong

I believe mine is a 11.5kW system. I got them through SolarCity. The install and insure the panel for free and then basically become my electric company. With Pepco I was paying something like 8.6 cent /kwh for production and 8 for distribution, so about 16.5 total /kwh. SolarCity will charge me 10.5 cents/ kwh. I save 25-40% and take another house off of the grid. Basically my roof becomes and electrical plant that serves just my house.

BlueFox wrote: »

I have 23 panels for a 6.5kW system. How did you get them for free?

mlong

Very cool. The guys were very professional and finished the installation in three days. Unfortunately, all three were in the 90's, the second day was BRUTAL. Now I'm just waiting for the inspector to look it over and for Pepco to change the meter. I hope they change that regulation for you but you're still going to see a great savings. Let me know how it goes.

Mark

Strong Bad wrote: »

Mark,

AWESOME! I have Solar City installing mine in about 1.5 months. You're lucky you don't live in Baltimore County. We, along with 3 other counties, have a fire regulation that requires panels to be installed 3 1/2' from each side of the roof and chimney. Simply dumber than hell regulation! Without the regulation, I could have an 18 panels system...now I can only get 11 panels. Still, if that regulation ever changes, they'll come back out and to alter and upgrade the system.

Like you...no money out of pocket! HAHA, my usage from April '13 - '14 was...5300 kWH. I'll get about 65% of my power from this system though. Without the regulation, could have nearly 100%!

Thanks for the photos!

John

mlong

SolarCity.com or call the field energy advisor who I dealt with, Jack Levenson - 202-740-4853. Tell him I gave you his number and I think I might get something free. Also, SolarCity representatives are often stationed in Home Depot or Lowes. They can answer a lot of questions for you. When I first spoke with Jack, he used Google Earth on his laptop to find my home and was able to give me an estimate on whether my house would be a candidate for Solar panels (you house must have Southern exposure) and how many panels it could accommodate.

Let me know what you find out.

Mark Long

Inspector 24 wrote: »

Umm...more info on this free business?!

mlong

I went to a cookout on the fourth and the homeowner put solar panels on his house last year. He paid $50,000 (and then got the government rebates so his overall cost was about $35K.

I would think that buyers would be interested in the option of paying 33% less on their electric bill but I can see your point.

BlueFox wrote: »

I suspect it is a lease, versus buying the panels. There was a good article in the paper last weekend about leasing versus buying solar. Basically, it said buyers aren't interested in taking over the lease, so the seller has to discount the sale price to get a buyer. Whereas buying solar adds around $25k to your home value.

mlong

I have to look at my contract but it is my understanding that Solar CIty insures the roof as well as the panels and the panels actually add a layer of protections for the roof so it should prevents a lot of the wear and tear that normally impacts it. As for hail, one of the guys who weighed over 250 lbs. was walking on the panels (the whole crew was) so they said that the are pretty resistant to hail.

Mark

Toolfan66 wrote: »

And if/when it's time to put on a new roof? Seems like it would be a pain in the **** at that point..

Also how do solar panels hold up to hail and strong winds?

mlong

I'm sorry. I don't know what that means.

deronb1 wrote: »

Did you have Astrum install?

mlong

SolarCity.com or call the field energy advisor who I dealt with, Jack Levenson - 202-740-4853. Tell him I gave you his number and I think I might get something free. Also, SolarCity representatives are often stationed in Home Depot or Lowes. They can answer a lot of questions for you. When I first spoke with Jack, he used Google Earth on his laptop to find my home and was able to give me an estimate on whether my house would be a candidate for Solar panels (you house must have Southern exposure) and how many panels it could accommodate.

miner wrote: »

How for free?

mlong

Yes, you turn over the tax rebates/credits to them. They install them for free because after the tax rebates and with their economies of scale in buying the panels, they can get their costs down enough to become profitable after about 6-8 years.

recoveryone wrote: »

In many cases the "Free" part is you signing over the tax rebates from the local, state and federal tax credits that you would get if you forked over the cash up front.

mlong

I know I'm hoping against my own interests but I hope they do find ways to make them better and cheaper. However, as we have seen, politicians tend to delay pushing alternatives energy so who know how fast the pace will be. At the end of the twenty years, if the price is low enough I'll just replace them or buy them from solar city for cheap.

Lasareath wrote: »

Solar City installs for free if you have good credit.

They want to put 33 panels on my roof.

But your electric is not free. Instead of paying your Electric company for electricity you will pay Solar City at a reduced rate.

The Pros:
Your Rate is the same rate for 20 years. Even if local Electric rates go up.
No out of pocket costs.

The Cons:
20 year Contract
Your Roof belongs to them for 20 years.
If better solar panels come out in 5 years that costs 4X less well then it's too late for you, you're locked into a 20 year contract.



I want to buy my own and have my neighbor install them.

mlong

Good analysis SB. I also bought a geothermal heating/cooling system in 2008. It cost me 25K but since it is all electric and I no longer needed to buy oil to heat in the winter, I had an average savings of $250-300/month so that system paid for itself in 6 years. Now having insulated the whole attic for $300.00 last summer and adding the solar installation, I should really be enjoying a big saving going forward.

Whenever people tease me about being a tree-hugger, I admit I am and then I tell them how much my heating bill is.

Strong Bad wrote: »

The whole "FREE" thing is, they come in and install the system. You get locked into a 20 yr contract with a set price per kWH. They get the federal tax credit. They also take a massive insurance policy out that covers the system and your house in the event something happens as a result of the system. Sure, you can get into the fine grain of things, legal mumbo jumbo, scenarios as to why they can screw you over with this, blah blah blah blah blah...but it's in their best interests to keep you as a paying customer. They want to make the cost of the system back plus make money.

Solar City is a company like most others, they are in it to make a profit. You just have to find the "Whats in it for me" thing. When you buy a new car, the car company makes a profit...but whats in it for you? Polk makes a profit on it's speakers...but whats in it for you?

Benefits to me - Set rate for 20 years which is already lower than BG&E, who just announced another round of proposed rate increases for January 2015 and July 2015. Any way you look at it...the utilities will be going UP, while my rate stays the same. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before BG&E (and other power utilities) has to spin up it's own solar installation division.

The panels are 30yr panels. They're built to withstand large hail and I believe, winds up to around 110 mph (possibly more). A large person can stand on the panels without damaging them. If hail, wind or other "acts of god" damages them, they are covered and replaced for free. The panels also cover most of my roof which blocks the sun and other "things" from hitting it. My upstairs will stay a bit cooler in the summer as a result.

It comes down to a few simple things...

1. Do you have the money to pay a company to install a system and you own it outright? This could run $20k, $30k or more.
2. Is your house located in an area that is free from obstructions and is pointed in a good direction to benefit from solar? My house is and is actually perfectly nestled where I get panels on BOTH sides of my roof.

For those on the fence, just call Solar City or another solar company in your area and have them come out. You're not obligated to buy anything when they do a survey and write ya up a proposal.

In reality, I'm not in it to save the polar bears or a few ice cubes in the antarctic...i'm in it for me and my wallet!

tonyb

Strong Bad wrote: »

In reality, I'm not in it to save the polar bears or a few ice cubes in the antarctic...i'm in it for me and my wallet!

Well said chief, and if that's the case, more power to ya. Like I said, who doesn't seek out relief for the wallet. My only problem with all this is the subsidies....others are paying for it. Kinda like welfare for the well to do in a sense. Same complaint we have when we see big corporations getting subsidies, no ?

Free is never free, some one pays, as long as it's not you, who cares ? Same mentality that we chastise when we talk welfare recipients. I would have no problem with solar if the average joe wanted to throw up some panels to save a buck on utility costs....but they should pay the nut....that's all I'm sayin'.

If your electric rate stays the same over long periods from these companies, that's a good thing except I think people forget the other aspects of your utility bills which are not locked down. Fees and taxes. In 20 years, even if your rate stays the same, your bill can certainly still double due to fees and taxes. Right now, here in Illinois, my fee's and taxes eat up 30-50% of my bill depending on which utility. That overshadows small differences in the rate.

I may come off as a hater of alternative energy, but I'm really not. I simply want people to pay for their own sh&t. I'm all for saving a buck and we all know we have to do that because those dollars don't fly in the door as easy as once was, but fly out in warp drive.

WagnerRC

The return on investment is to great to pay up. if the incentives were not offered I would have a harder time handing over the cash.