Just got an amp!

Jyveturkey

Please keep this in mind. I had no problem with the advise given. My problem was with the way it was given. Abrasive is a good term.

I think one of my comments was misinterpreted. When stating the Internet and opinions a few jumped to the conclusion that I was bad mouthing theirs. That wasn't my intent. I was simply saying the Internet is full of opinions. That's it.

Given the chance to grab a real amp at a decent price and I will be all over it.

It seems I've picked the 2 most expensive hobbies I could. Home audio and my jeep wrangler. Amps, speakers, tires, wheels, lifts, receivers. It never ends and I need more money.

ZLTFUL

Try home audio and collecting motorcycles. Even the Jeep guys think we bike guys are obsessed! :cheesygrin:

oldrocker

I still remember F1nut's first response to one of my comments way back when.
It was only 4 words.

Get a real amp....He was right...

msg

Hey Jyveturkey,
glad you didn't let the bumpy start scare you off. good to see you back and posting. I don't think anyone intentionally meant to make you feel bad about the Crown you picked up. the guys who've chimed in with their knowledge and experience are all pretty personable imo. mostly. haha, j/k fellas. anyway, pretty sure we've all bought stuff we thought would be great and turned out to not really meet our expectations/been disappointing, so you're not alone in that, and don't feel bad at the education you're getting after the fact. everyone's just tryin' to help you out moving forward.

but hey, seeing your statement about the 200wpc not making any noticeable difference to your sound response - I thought that a bit unusual, and so it prompted me to go look up the specs on your Crown amp. Not really sure whether the A9's behave as 8ohm or 4ohm, or somewhere in between, but if I have the model right, the Crown XLS202 seems to put out 200w at 4ohm @ 1Khz; at 8ohm, spec sheet says it drops down to 145w. so I don't think you're getting the full 200wpc experience with your A9's, and 145w isn't really much over what a really nice AVR can do, an integrated stereo receiver maybe a little better, so this could be partly why you didn't notice much of a difference, the rest of it being along the lines of what the others have said in the way of being application specific.

Is this the one? http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/legacy/133616.pdf

your tests might also include running the speakers full range, sub off, all effects off, in stereo mode. and then play with tone controls if necessary. levels, too, and see what the speakers can do under these conditions. one thing at a time, giving yourself some time in between adjustments to settle in (this part's hard. I swear, for several weeks there for a while, it wasn't unusual for me to walk outta the living room in frustration, my ears ringing). then add in any sort of boosting effects if it's still not to your liking. on Pioneer receivers, for example, this is called Sound Retriever, and if you're underpowered, this can make a significant and even acceptable difference to get you by for a while if you're not already spoiled by the effects a nice amp can have. I used it with RTi10's when I was just getting started, and it really seemed to help fill in some of the low to midrange I was missing with the baby receiver I had at the time (just 80wpc, one channel driven, iirc?)

if you still end up in the market for an amp, the Parasound/B&K/Adcom recommendations are good ones for a sort of "no-brainer/no-research/minimal understanding required" approach. I've been fortunate enough to have had opportunities to work with both Parasound and B&K units, and have been pleased with their performance. it wasn't until after that that I learned a bit more about amps, though, and so the numbers make more sense now for quick general assessment before delving in deeper. the tube recommendation was one that I *really* wanted to try too, but find myself in a relatively blissful ignorant enjoyment state at this point with a used Parasound 2205. maybe I'll try a tub amp/pre down the road, but for now, I'm pretty pleased with the Parasound's performance, and that's with a variety of speakers. the HCA-1200II and 1500 are good 2ch units, and seem to come available with some subtle regularity. Parasound's HCA is pretty solid gear.

can't always shop by the numbers though, as you're finding, and others have said. I still don't know a whole lot, but these are safe recommendations for good performance with RTi/A speakers, something I can say with first hand experience. not that these are definitive indicators, but with the tire kicker/initial approach, look for weight, which typically means big transformer/high current delivery, and figures for output at 8/4ohms with all channels driven at 20Hz to 20Khz. if you see something with power advertised at less than 8ohm @ 1Khz 1ch driven, it's probably because they're trying to talk it up and make it look more powerful than it is. I used to rack my brain in the beginning trying to get a sense of what all these numbers meant. it was overwhelming, and very frustrating, especially not having any opportunity to really hear any of this stuff. seemed like everyone was speccing gear differently, at least in the AVR world, and then there was the actual sound quality to factor in - again, the numbers aren't everything. anyway, you'll see this with AVR's and such. manipulated power spec advertisement means that it's not going to have the available power you want to drive those big speakers to the hard hitting, sub-replacing, punchy levels you were expecting. when you do experience it, however, those 7" drivers are really moving, and you'll feel those speakers hitting into your core!

you can do it if you're patient for the used market. many of us couldn't get into this level of stuff new.

welcome

msg

oldrocker wrote: »

I still remember F1nut's first response to one of my comments way back when.
It was only 4 words.

Get a real amp....He was right...

hahaha, yeah, you can always count on F1 to cut through the old crapcake

oldrocker

Yep, that is for sure.

I keep hoping he or someone would start a page called Polk Audio Jargon.
It sure would help people like me know what the heck most of you folks are talking about at any given time.

Jyveturkey

That's odd that the data sheet says that and their website says 200 @ 8 ohms
http://www.crownaudio.com/xls-series.html

Several other sites refer to it as 200 @ 8 as well

tonyb

Most forums....you need to get the lay of the land, recognize the vastly different personalities. We have a great group here, personalities up the wazoo. Grow some thick skin and integrate with the crowd, you may learn some things, you may not, but you'll have fun either way.

The way I figure, F1NUT and George Grand owe me a few computer monitors from spitting so much coffee on them over the years. God, I love this place. LOL

msg

Jyveturkey wrote: »

That's odd that the data sheet says that and their website says 200 @ 8 ohms
http://www.crownaudio.com/xls-series.html

Several other sites refer to it as 200 @ 8 as well

oh, yeah, that IS weird. wonder if those are two different models, somehow. I've seen something similar with the B&K series amps - they had an EX series and a REF series, and the REF series was higher output.

Jyveturkey

I see what's up. There's a 202a and a 202d

The a is 145 and the d is 200

msg

ooh, I didn't see that; do you know which one you have?
looks like all the legacy stuff is listed here
http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/legacamp.htm

msg

tonyb wrote: »

Most forums....you need to get the lay of the land, recognize the vastly different personalities. We have a great group here, personalities up the wazoo. Grow some thick skin and integrate with the crowd, you may learn some things, you may not, but you'll have fun either way.

The way I figure, F1NUT and George Grand owe me a few computer monitors from spitting so much coffee on them over the years. God, I love this place. LOL

haha, Tony you really gotta get that under control

Pycroft

Jy-
You may want to let people know where you live (or closest big city). Lots of policies frequent ebay/Craigslist and can possibly keep an eye out for "killer deals". We also have a huge thread called 'deal of the day' in which people find local deals and post for all to see. Happy hunting!

James

pitdogg2

tonyb wrote: »

I can never understand why some spend a good amount of coin on speakers, nice speakers, then want to find the dirt cheapest alternative to power them....hook them up with the cheapest cable possible.

yep like building a great mopar then going out to find cheap gas out of old tanks in the junk yard

Jyveturkey

Mine is a 202d so good to go there. 200

Im outside the Seattle area and am usually all over cl and ebay

msg

cool. try out the other config stuff and see if it makes any difference to you. you know, baseline everything.

did you say which AVR you're using? I might have missed it.

Jyveturkey

I didn't. Using an onkyo 809. Already ran audyssey

tophatjohnny

Jyveturkey wrote: »

I didn't. Using an onkyo 809. Already ran audyssey

Great, now grab yourself a nice amp (Parasound, B&K, Adcom) and you will be on the road to the wow factor...depending on your speakers. Don't be a Bootie head, open up, listen to what these cats have to say, and believe that they only want to help you. If you can accept that you will be thrilled with the results. Down in the Clubhouse you will see the members here are genuine people and a great place to be a part of. There's hope my turkey audio brother. Might take a while for some to forget, but we;re all only human, Peace and decent receiver for sure!

hertz9753

When I joined I had an Onkyo 603 and a pair of Polk R50's.

msg

Jyveturkey wrote: »

I didn't. Using an onkyo 809. Already ran audyssey

that's a pretty nice receiver and already puts out some decent power, so could be that you really might not be noticing that much of a difference with the amp connected.

check out the settings, write everything down paying special attention to the speaker levels, then turn that crap off for now just for the purpose of seeing what that amp can do for you without Audyssey in the way. seriously, sometimes you'll get undesirable adjustments with those utilities. start with everything zeroed and set your A9's to large, stereo mode, and start playing with levels and maybe tone controls, slowly adding a little bass and see if you get anything better than what you're currently seeing.

tonyb

Is that before or after a 6-pack of Molson's ?

hertz9753

I got a life time supply of Molson after I put a mouse in an empty bottle...

Hermitism

Somehow I managed to completely miss this entire thread until now.

nbrowser wrote: »

I'll admit when I first came to this forum I thought some of these guys were on the sauce.

LOL and +1

I'll never forget joining here exactly one year ago. People telling me I needed to buy a Pio SC model, people telling me how much their speaker cables cost. I thought this place was nothing but a club for rich people. I'm sure glad I made the decision to listen to everyone instead of going elsewhere. Craigslist and eBay have become my best friend. I still think most of the people here are on the sauce though!!

Jyveturkey, don't feel bad, I thought a lot of people here lacked social skills when I joined. Now after getting to know everyone's personalities, I find myself amused on a daily basis. They really give good advice, and they usually make me laugh doing it. They've built me a nice system over the last twelve months. Unfortunately, they used my money to do it.