Crown Amp Setup

Talon_Sr

Hi, I'm think about getting either a Crown XLS 1000 or 1500 to use as a passive bi-amp with my Pioneer SC-1523 AVR. First, I Know this is a professional amp, but can it be used in a HT setup? I can't find any specs on my receiver that show the pre-out voltage. I know I need at least 1.4 Vrms or higher on my pre-outs to fully drive the Crown amp. Second, is this amp a good match for driving Polk Monitor 75T mains? Would I use it for the low end or upper? My current receiver is 9.2 channels and the Front Height channels are available for "bi-amping" the fronts down to 7.2 channel, which probably means that they are providing the same information as the main fronts. So, would I go front height pre-outs on the receiver to the RCA crown inputs and then to the speaker's bottom speaker line in on the Polks? And if so, what gain do I set the Crown channels at for room calibration? What frequency do I set the crown amp to comply with the Polk's internal xo? I believe this would help increase the multi channels output on the receiver as only seven channels will be driven instead of all nine. Or would it be better to just drive the Polk mains separately (with speaker bridge plates in place) with the crown, and the rest of the speakers (surrounds and backs) with the receiver? I don't want to rip out the internal xo's of the Polks, so active setup is not an option. Thanks for your help.

EndersShadow

Your chasing your tail here. Either use the Crown to power the 75t's entirely or not at all. Bi-amping for most applications is pointless. Been there done that with a dedicated amp. Not worth the effort.

Also as a FYI you wont be able to use banana plugs with this amp it looks like, only bare wire or possibly pins unless you make your own speakon cables.

Talon_Sr

Thanks, ES. My current receiver uses the relatively new D3 amp (switching) and that's why I was looking at these crown amps. Don't know if there are things to consider when mixing the class of amps you use, but I didn't want to take a chance. So, basically, I would go Front outs to crown in (RCA) and then from there to the speakers with bridge plates attached to the four terminals. Now what about setting the freq on the crown as I saw there is a cross-over adjustment. Is there a setting on the Crown that denotes "Full-range" or is it the "Bypass"? Thanks again.

Oh, also, what about a possible ground loop that I've been reading about? The crown uses a three pronged plug and the receiver only two (Ithink). Is that a problem and how do you address that?

EndersShadow

Talon_Sr wrote: »

So, basically, I would go Front outs to crown in (RCA) and then from there to the speakers with bridge plates attached to the four terminals.

Yes

Talon_Sr wrote: »

Is there a setting on the Crown that denotes "Full-range" or is it the "Bypass"? Thanks again.

I would assume its set at full range unless you say otherwise, but you might want to read the manual. Your obviously setting the crossover in the AVR rather than the crown.

Talon_Sr

And the gain on the Crown should be at maximum for room calibration?

EndersShadow

Talon_Sr wrote: »

And the gain on the Crown should be at maximum for room calibration?

Yes. You dont turn down the gain on any amps (except for your sub) per most EQ stuff. If it was a non pro amp you wouldnt even have that option anyway

Talon_Sr

I see they have RCA to XLR cables. Is there any benefit in using these or is RCA to RCA fine? My receiver only has RCA outs. As I understand it, XLR is balanced and RCA is unbalanced? Thanks

Talon_Sr

EndersShadow wrote: »

Also as a FYI you wont be able to use banana plugs with this amp it looks like, only bare wire or possibly pins unless you make your own speakon cables.

From what I've read at the Crown website, only the European models cannot use banana plugs, but these can.

Talon_Sr

Also, could you recommend a good and hopefully not too expensive isolation transformer in case there is ground loop hum? And do these transformers affect freq. response in any way?

Habanero Monk

EndersShadow wrote: »

Also as a FYI you wont be able to use banana plugs with this amp it looks like, only bare wire or possibly pins unless you make your own speakon cables.

He can certainly use banana's with the Crown. Just remove the safety plugs in the binding post on the back of the Crown. They are in there because European AC outlet plugs can plug right into the back of binding posts.

Habanero Monk

Talon_Sr wrote: »

Also, could you recommend a good and hopefully not too expensive isolation transformer in case there is ground loop hum? And do these transformers affect freq. response in any way?

ART CleanBox Pro. If hum exists I would look at mitigating the root cause vs a band-aid.

Habanero Monk

EndersShadow wrote: »

Yes. You dont turn down the gain on any amps (except for your sub) per most EQ stuff. If it was a non pro amp you wouldnt even have that option anyway

That isn't how gain works. Gain is an input sensitivity adjustment to how hot the signal is coming out of your pre-amp. You only need the amp gain set to the point that your pre-amp input will allow the amp to drive to desired/full wattage.

I only need 28dB out of 32dB of gain on my Yamaha with my Focusrite to enable my amplifier to develop full power.

The OP may need the gain adjusted to fully open on the Crown but then again he may not.

Talon_Sr

Habanero Monk wrote: »

ART CleanBox Pro. If hum exists I would look at mitigating the root cause vs a band-aid.

I believe the reason was that the Crown has a three-pronged plug and the receiver is only two. the concern was that there may be ground loop hum. But then again there may not.

Habanero Monk

Talon_Sr wrote: »

I believe the reason was that the Crown has a three-pronged plug and the receiver is only two. the concern was that there may be ground loop hum. But then again there may not.

Ground loop hum can even happen with balanced configurations. It certainly doesn't happen just because you are going from unbalanced to balanced connections.

Talon_Sr

Habanero Monk wrote: »

That isn't how gain works. Gain is an input sensitivity adjustment to how hot the signal is coming out of your pre-amp. You only need the amp gain set to the point that your pre-amp input will allow the amp to drive to desired/full wattage.

I only need 28dB out of 32dB of gain on my Yamaha with my Focusrite to enable my amplifier to develop full power.

The OP may need the gain adjusted to fully open on the Crown but then again he may not.

So, are you saying that if my pre-outs are only around 1V and the Crown requires at least 1.4Vrms, then I would use the gain controls on the Crown (if that's what they are) to compensate for this?

Polkie2009

How clean of power are you getting on the system? Is the wiring in the house grounded properly? As HM mentioned , there might be other issues involved and using some of the hum eliminating products work sometimes and sometimes not.

Habanero Monk

Talon_Sr wrote: »

So, are you saying that if my pre-outs are only around 1V and the Crown requires at least 1.4Vrms, then I would use the gain controls on the Crown (if that's what they are) to compensate for this?

If your pre only outputs 1v you will never realize full output. You would need a D.I. box like the Art CleanBox to bump it.

Talon_Sr

Yes, the room was an addition in 2008. So, yes I would say it's clean. The room is 25x25 with 10 to 12 outlets in it due to the code for so many to be installed relative to length of walls. And yes they are grounded properly.

Talon_Sr

Habanero Monk wrote: »

If your pre only outputs 1v you will never realize full output. You would need a D.I. box like the Art CleanBox to bump it.

Well, that's just it. I don't know what the pre-out voltage is. I can't find any specs on it. But the amp is from a 2013 line if that counts. People on forums are saying that the avr I have should handle it and others who have the same avr and crown amp are saying they don't have any problems with it. So who knows?

Habanero Monk

Call the manufacturer.

Talon_Sr

Well, that does it. 1 volt peak to peak only on pre-outs. Oh well.

Habanero Monk

Talon_Sr wrote: »

Well, that does it. 1 volt peak to peak only on pre-outs. Oh well.

You will need a bump box....

Talon_Sr

Actually, now I need more than that. I just realized that I need an amp that has remote functionality. Why? Because all of my system devices are controlled by a Harmony Remote. And, of course, modern avr's and most likely most other separates dumped the idea of switched outlets on the rear panels. Probably because someone found that having those was "bad" in some miniscule way. Now, it sorta defeats the purpose of having a Harmony Remote if you have to walk up to the amp and turn it on manually. Now, that's not such a problem for me, but my wife and kids will never remember to turn it on and will also complain about having to do so when the universal remote switched on all devices used and set the proper inputs on both TV and source. So, I will have to wait for a consumer amp with remote and the features of the Crown XLS at the price point it was selling for. Any way thanks for all the advice everyone.

Talon_Sr

Hey, how are these Pyle Amps? I found on with a remote and since it's listed as a HT amp, I shouldn't have to worry about the line out voltage.

Polkie2009

Pyle really? I've never used, know no one who has used them either. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole, just my 2 cent...

Mikey081057

Pyle is appropriately named

Talon_Sr

Ok, I'll keep looking. heh, you figure with a name like Pyle, they would strive to be the best. Sorta like Smuckers.

Talon_Sr

Aren't there any decent amps out there with auto-on signal present?

rooftop59

you just need something with a 12v trigger, parasound HCA-1000A would be a great used choice. Make sure its the A, as the HCA-1000 does NOT have a trigger...

Hermitism

∆∆ What he said.

You can also use a power conditioner with switched, unswitched and delayed outlets. Just make sure if you are using a high current amp that the conditioner supplies enough current.

Talon_Sr

Thanks, will look at them.