RTi12's or RTiA9's with a Yamaha CA-2010 or a VTA ST-120

Sprags

Greetings again,
Thanks to everyone here last year about this time I purchased a pair of LSi703's with the intent of using them with my VTA ST-120 tube amp. A few weeks I took delivery on a Yamaha CA-2010 integrated amp. I'd like to get a pair of towers and I see RTi12's are on sale on the eBay store. I also see RTiA9's listed. I really want towers. Is there really much of a sonic improvement with the 9's over the 12's? My plan is to use a turntable with the tube system and the other other system would be for CD plus tuner.
Thanks in advance.
Sprags

F1nut

Pairing inherently bright speakers with an inherently bright integrated amp would not be a wise choice, IMO. Besides, that integrated doesn't have the balls to drive either of those speaker models. A better match would be the LSiM 705.

chumlie

Tough call. I hear the 9's are better. Key word is hear. From the forum. But think your gonna be disappointed either way after the 703's. Just my opinion. Why not get a sub to kick up the bass on the 703's and hook up everything to them.

Nightfall

I would say the CA-1010 and CA-2010 are more on the neutral side of bright sounding, but I have never paired mine with bright speakers. I'm thinking Jesse may be right here but the only way to find out for youself is to try. The 2010 has 44,000µF worth of storage, if that is enough to keep correct dynamics is going to depend on how loud you listen to it really, no?

Give it some breathing room, switch it into Class A mode, keep it under 30 watts to keep it from switching to Class B, and sit down and listen.

As far as which speakers, for the same or less money you could get something from the lower SDA models or the RTA12's. Any of which would be far less bright or clinical and more on the musical side. Especially with Peerless or RDO tweeters.

Just my opinion. The guy above me knows his stuff, listen to what he has to say.

...and BTW, he uses SDA's

Inspector 24

F1nut wrote: »

Pairing inherently bright speakers with an inherently bright integrated amp would not be a wise choice, IMO. Besides, that integrated doesn't have the balls to drive either of those speaker models. A better match would be the LSiM 705.

chumlie wrote: »

Tough call. I hear the 9's are better. Key word is hear. From the forum. But think your gonna be disappointed either way after the 703's. Just my opinion. Why not get a sub to kick up the bass on the 703's and hook up everything to them.

^^^THIS

I was not truly impressed with the A9's until I had a solid 200 watts of high current Parasound power going to them.

Less demanding speakers will sound better with your integrated amp. From what I've read 703's would not only sound better period, but doubly so considering the power source.

To answer the question you asked, I've read that people couldn't hear any difference between the 9's and 12's but the 9's sure are a better looking speaker!

Nightfall

By the guy above me I meant F1Nut.

I didn't read that right the first time, you already have LSiM 703's?! Why would you get anything from the Rti or Rtia line? Keep them things!

Sprags

I was going to ask how to hook an integrated amp to a tube preamp and a tube amp but even if that's something someone would do I wouldn't.

I don't hear the Yamaha CA-2010 as being bright. I have it hooked up to the 703's right now and that system sounds great.

My goal is to find a pair of reasonably priced towers to use with one of my systems and keep the 703's for the other system.

Thanks for the input.

Inspector 24

Sprags, I haven't heard that pre, amp or the 703's but based off everything I've read the 703's are a pretty mellow laid back speaker, where the A9 is certainly on the bright side of things. Compared to my LSi's they are quite in your face, which is fun for a LOT of things, great for home theater, but not always the greatest for critical music listening. However the addition of lots of power from a big warm Parasound amp helps a lot, and has made them quite enjoyable for a variety of music.

cnh

The CA-2010 is a vintage Yamaha so the sound is more neutral than bright. That said, it does not have the power to adequately power the 12s or the 9s. If you have 12s there is NO reason to get 9s, the difference is not worth the move.

LSIMs are in another class. The best Polk has put out in a while. They are easier to power. That Yamaha might be a candidate for those?

cnh

Sprags

I finally got the chance to listen to the 703's through my tube amp and they just don't sound as good as they do with the CA-2010 so it looks like I'm in need of more efficient speakers for that system. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

B Run

What's your budget?

msg

Can you describe the difference in how they don't sound as good? Not challenging you, simply curious about what you're experiencing.

Sprags wrote: »

I finally got the chance to listen to the 703's through my tube amp and they just don't sound as good as they do with the CA-2010 so it looks like I'm in need of more efficient speakers for that system. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Sprags

Actually I hooked up my VTA ST-120 to my brand new never powered up Cary SLP03. I biased the amp and popped in a CD. It sounded very flat and dull.

Since listening to the system about an hour ago I let the amp and preamp warmup and it sounds much better. I imagine the tube preamp needs a bit of break in period and it will probably sound even better.

I'd still like a pair of speakers for my tube amp system other than the 703's. I'm thinking about a $1000 for a pair. I'd like real wood not vinyl. I don't mind used as long as they aren't beat up.

pyrocyborg

Well, LSiM is real wood (if this is what you meant by "I'd like real wood not vinyl"), but it's smoothed down to a point where you can't feel the grain. As for the RTi, it's veneer too, not vinyl.

I don't know much about tube amps, but if it's the same than tube guitar amp, you let it warm up for at least 1 minute and then, you can listen to it. After that, it apparently takes between 5-10 minutes to open up and sound fuller and warmer. However, I might be wrong.

Inspector 24

RTiA series have a very nice finish IMHO. As good as many much higher end speakers from what I've seen...Even better than some...And people always remark how attractive a speaker the A9 is.

F1nut

Inspector 24 wrote: »

RTiA series have a very nice finish IMHO. As good as many much higher end speakers from what I've seen...Even better than some...And people always remark how attractive a speaker the A9 is.

I agree. The RTiA series cherry version is actual cherry wood veneer, the color tone is just right, the clear coat is top notch.

tonyb

Take the tube amp out of the mix and use a good quality SS amp. Also That Cary pre will sound way better if you roll some NOS tubes in her.

When it comes to tubed gear, you need to roll a few tubes, play with some different cables to get your right mix for the sound you like. It's not always about the speakers.

jeremymarcinko

The RTi12's can sound very good with music. In my experience with them, they really need a quality source. Many here will tell you that they need 200w or more to sound there best, and I am not going to agrue that, but I only power mine with 125w and they sound amazing with music. The RTi12's have a relatively flat frequency response and more musical speakers typically have accentuated highs and lows, right?. I tend to believe that flat = accurate and should sound more realistic, but in many cases the RTi's can sound "inherently bright." However, for me, the brightness issues come from using a poor quality source. First of all, the Rti12's in my (average) setup sound amazing with vinyl, even using my AVR's pre-amp and phono stage. CD's on the other hand, sound bright, less dynamic, and less airy, when passed to the AVR/Pre via HDMI/PCM, or coax/PCM. Using the analog out of the player, greatly improves the sound. Other digital sources, such as flac files (coverted from CD collection) played via DNLA or USB and decoded by the avr directly, also sounds fantastic. It seems to me ( I am no expert, and won't pretend to be), that some noise is generated via HDMI/PCM or Coax/PCM, perhaps "jitter" and is made very apparent by the more prominent mid-range frequency response of the Rti12's. This in-turn gives the RTi's a bad reputation of being bright or harsh. I assume that that due to the price point of the RTi's many on a budget are drawn to them, but like me was still using a dvd/bluray via hdmi as a source, which led to their dissatisfaction or bright assessment. I tend to think that the accentuated high and lows of musical speakers makes the introduced noise of poor sources less apparent. Point being the RTi12's at there sale price of $679 on polk's ebay store is a fantastic value, and that given a quality source such as vinyl, flac over dnla or usb, or a quality cd player via analog out, the RTi's do sound amazing with music, not just home theater.

Sprags

And the Yamaha CA-2010's 100 wpc isn't enough to drive the A9's or the i12's??? I'm not looking to blast a 16 x 32 room. My room is relatively small.

Inspector 24

nbrowser wrote: »

Hey hey hey the A7s, A3s and A6s are equally pleasing to the eyes as the big A9. Even in black!

Agreed, they've all got a great shape and presence. Color is simply a matter of preference, and to my eye the A9 has a nice balanced look about it between the number of drivers, it's height and depth, like it's a speaker the truly means business and hits at a higher end speaker than it is. That's to my eye anyway.

Sprags wrote: »

And the Yamaha CA-2010's 100 wpc isn't enough to drive the A9's or the i12's??? I'm not looking to blast a 16 x 32 room. My room is relatively small.

Considering your previous experience with the 703's and and that you could hear a difference between the different amps on the speakers, I'd say there's a good chance you'll be able to quickly pick out the differences between the 703's and the A9/12's. Given that, if your experience goes anything like mine you'll find that compared to smaller speakers with fewer drivers the A9's will sound thin, possibly anemic even at lower volumes without adequate power.

When I went from RT800i's to A9's powered only by my Yamaha AVR's 140wpc I can honestly say I thought I made a bad purchase! I really did not like them. Thus the search began as to why, turns out, they need power, more to the point current.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?127841-Amp-for-RTia9-Adcom-Emotiva-or&p=1704662&viewfull=1#post1704662

Every step up they've gotten better, richer, smoother and more listenable at all volume levels.

F1nut

Sprags wrote: »

And the Yamaha CA-2010's 100 wpc isn't enough to drive the A9's or the i12's??? I'm not looking to blast a 16 x 32 room. My room is relatively small.

No, it is not and that is a large room.

Sprags

What's a big room? I said its a relatively small room. Maybe 16 x 15.

Inspector 24

Reading comprehension fail :razz:

16x15 definitely isn't that big, and my gear is in a relatively large room, 17x35 main area and then some, so while your experience may differ, I think it's a safe bet you would still benefit from more power for A9's. As I said previously, if you can appreciate the difference an amp can make with 703's, you will definitely appreciate the difference it can make on A9's.

Sprags

tonyb wrote: »

Take the tube amp out of the mix and use a good quality SS amp. Also That Cary pre will sound way better if you roll some NOS tubes in her.

When it comes to tubed gear, you need to roll a few tubes, play with some different cables to get your right mix for the sound you like. It's not always about the speakers.

First you say I should get rid of the tube amp then you tell me that I should put some NOS tubes in it to hear a difference. A difference in what? Then you say i should try different cables. I asked for suggestions for speakers. Kinda hard to plug cables into nothing and listen to NOS tubes spewing out electrons through the so called different cables that are plugged into nothing.

I admit that I said the sound was kinda flat when I had them plugged into the 703's. But I quickly corrected myself and admitted the amp and preamp weren't warmed up adequately.

Now I bet I'm going to get flamed because I replied sarcastically to someone that didn't read the thread.

Sprags

As I stated in the beginning I have and want two systems. I'm not going to change from my amp/preamp configuration or my integrated amp. I like the way they both sound. All I asked for was a suggestion for a tower speaker to use with either one. Whichever system doesn't get connected to the new towers will be connected to the 703's that I currently have. The 703's sound good with either power source that I currently have. I want towers in addition to the the 703's to have something different.

Are the A7's less power hungry than the A9's? Would they be more compatible to the Yamaha CA-2010 than the A9's?

gudnoyez

Those cherry A9' s are drop dead gourges.

chumlie

A7's are power hungry ****'s too. Get an amp or the A5's.

Sprags

Right now Polk Audio Ebay has them buy only in black. I'd like to get cherry. Do cherry ones become available or should I hurry and get the black?

Sprags

Are the black ones as nice a finish as the cherry?

tonyb

Sprags wrote: »

Are the black ones as nice a finish as the cherry?

No....not in my opinion anyway.