Sony CDP-x779ES

nooshinjohn

What is the prevailing opinion on these players? Found one locally that does not seem to load or play cd's at the moment. If the bill is not too terrible, is it worth it to het it fixed up?

F1nut

I'll never look at a music server, but I might spit on one.

pearsall001

F1nut wrote: »

I'll never look at a music server, but I might spit on one.

Still driving a horse & buggy I see! LOL! Sooner or later the light bulb will go off in Jesse's world.

embrown057

The Sony is still a nice piece with lots of detail and easy to work on. The loader belt is always the problem along with a wore out laser will set you back a total of 40 bucks (if you do the work). The manual is on HIFIEngine to download. It's nice to see we can focus on the issue at hand for the OP without prejustice.

F1nut

Not to worry Phil, the sun shines brightly here, brighter than any light bulb. With one stellar SACD/CD player and one damn good one, why would I even consider a server? I'll never download and it's not like I suffer with ADD.

FTGV

I did'nt have a strong desire to jump into the music server game until on whim downloaded the free version of JRiver.Since then I have been hooked.I'm not a big downloader ,most of the music on my HD is from rips of my own CD's and a few hi rez vinyl rips from a friend.I still have a couple of decent sounding,modded Pio universal players should the need arise.
Interestingly I did find that it took about 100hrs for the Jriver software to start sounding it's best.Breakin I presume?Lol.

headrott

The way I figure it, the more times a file is transferred, the more errors that occur in the file (please don't start with the "bit perfect" crap as IMO that is BS). This leads to reduced sound quality. Also, I am not sure how a computer (with lower quality capacitors, resistors, and every other component) can sound better than a high quality transport (CD player minus the DACs) and a well recorded and mastered CD/SACD.

To me a computer as a transport is a matter of convenience over sound quality. To each their own, however. Hey, if you like it, do it.

tonyb

What do you guys think a cd is ? Nothing more than music files stored on a disc. It's how that file is extracted, computer or cdp that's the key. That's why a cheap cdp sounds like a cheap cdp, and a computer file with the computer doing the work sounds like **** too.

You simply use the computer as a storage device....and a good dac, not a mediocre one, a good one with excellent build similar to what you'd find in a good cdp and I'd say your on the same playing field. Tad more to it than that but generally speaking.

That said, I still personally prefer a good cdp but the gap has narrowed. The analog output stage in good cdp's is where it's at and you won't find that in a 300 buck dac. Find a dac with the same heft and build quality as a good cdp and you'll probably do ok for computer music.

All things being equal, you simply can't beat having millions of songs at your finger tips. While good cdp's have come way down in price, the convenience factor is off the charts for digital playback. Some suggest making that swap, convenience for SQ, isn't acceptable. Maybe so...but it need not be. Simply costs more money to do it right IMHO.

pitdogg2

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What is the prevailing opinion on these players? Found one locally that does not seem to load or play cd's at the moment. If the bill is not too terrible, is it worth it to het it fixed up?

Pretty good player John. It is one of their last better players many better ones came before it. That being said lasers are few and far between as I do not think they were used in many other players. I'm biased I like Sony ES CD players.

tonyb

Spend some more....

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-cary-audio-cd-303t-pro-vacuum-tube-cd-sacd-player-absolutely-brand-new-perfect-10-10-2014-04-25-digital-85395

The digital inputs will come in handy too.

billbillw

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What is the prevailing opinion on these players? Found one locally that does not seem to load or play cd's at the moment. If the bill is not too terrible, is it worth it to het it fixed up?

The build quality is probably among the best ever. If it were free, I would take it and try to fix it up, but beware, the lasers/optical pickup are pretty much unobtanium.

I would look at it and trouble shoot a bit. If the tray doesn't open, its most likely just a belt. Pop the top, manually open and get a disc in there. If the mechanism doesn't spin discs up when they are in a closed tray, it could be something in control which would be difficult to trouble shoot and may have issue with parts not being available. If it spins up but doesn't come up with the track index or play, then it could be the laser/optical pickup which as I mentioned, is unobtainium, but it may also be as simple as needing some lube on the rails, or an adjustment on the clamping mechanism.

Free, give it a try, if they want a good amount of money, stay away.

billbillw

headrott wrote: »

The way I figure it, the more times a file is transferred, the more errors that occur in the file (please don't start with the "bit perfect" crap as IMO that is BS). This leads to reduced sound quality. Also, I am not sure how a computer (with lower quality capacitors, resistors, and every other component) can sound better than a high quality transport (CD player minus the DACs) and a well recorded and mastered CD/SACD.

To me a computer as a transport is a matter of convenience over sound quality. To each their own, however. Hey, if you like it, do it.

A perfect secure rip from EAC will be every bit as good as the original. Once it is in the digital realm, there is no loss from transferring, copying, etc. The computer does not degrade it over time, or anything of the sort. It keeps that perfect copy and sends it out to a DAC. Tony is correct. If you send it to a very high quality DAC, you will have a sound that is equal to the best CD/SACD players.

Copying and transferring analog files does lead to degradation over time, but that is definitely not the case for a digital file unless it somehow gets corrupted, which is why you want to have backups of all your media.

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

What do you guys think a cd is ? Nothing more than music files stored on a disc. It's how that file is extracted, computer or cdp that's the key.

Yes. A CD player is a simple one-task computer. It reads a file off the storage device, decodes it, turns it into analog, and sends it to another device. A music server does the same thing, except its storage device can hold more files. Additionally, the files can be of mixed types, such as WAV, FLAC, ALAC, DSD, etc. No big deal since they can all be decoded.

Also, a binary file can be locally copied an infinite number of times with no degradation. Fume all you want, but that is not going to change. Otherwise, as millions of CDs are created, the files would gradually corrupt.

Converting the file to electrical impulses to send it from point A to point B does have the potential to introduce jitter as the electrical impulses are reconstituted as a binary file. Music files differ from other files (text, etc.) in that regard.

pitdogg2

billbillw wrote: »

A perfect secure rip from EAC will be every bit as good as the original. Once it is in the digital realm, there is no loss from transferring, copying, etc. The computer does not degrade it over time, or anything of the sort. It keeps that perfect copy and sends it out to a DAC. Tony is correct. If you send it to a very high quality DAC, you will have a sound that is equal to the best CD/SACD players.

And that is exactly the reason the record companies do not want us to own the physical media. As Bill said each and every one will be bit perfect copies. I use "bit perfect" loosely as the degradation is a quantum leap different than analog copies as each one (analog) will be slightly more degraded each time.

trav0810

I've tried a few different music server/digital streamers. I love them for their convenience, but I think the sound quality from a good CDP is better.

BlueFox

trav0810 wrote: »

I've tried a few different music server/digital streamers. I love them for their convenience, but I think the sound quality from a good CDP is better.

Get a better DAC.

trav0810

I would expect that the onboard DAC on a $2K network player would outperform the DAC in my Pioneer Elite CDP. It didn't. So, id I have to spend more than that to get a file to sound good, I think I'll find another medium.

BlueFox

trav0810 wrote: »

I would expect that the onboard DAC on a $2K network player would outperform the DAC in my Pioneer Elite CDP. It didn't. So, id I have to spend more than that to get a file to sound good, I think I'll find another medium.

What other mediums are there? Vinyl. LOL. Tape. Maybe, at $500 a reel for an album, not to mention a very limited selection.

trav0810

Yeah, I'm talking about the Clic. The M1DAC is fairly well regarded and the Clic contains the same DAC. It's OK, better than the Marantz or Denon network players I have tried, but still doesn't sound as good as my Elite. I don't think it's the DAC itself that's the problem. Because I have ran CDP's through the DAC on the CLic and they still sound good. I think it is actually the quality of the files. Unless you are ripping the files yourself, and have the set up to do a superb job, most of the files you encounter are not going to be as high of quality.

trav0810

Well, vinyl is my preferred medium. But I also enjoy CD. Like I said, the streamer is great for convenience, but I haven't heard an "online file" that, through a streamer, sounds better than a CD or SACD on a good player.

BlueFox

That makes sense. Streaming is not a music server, apples and oranges type of thing.

ZLTFUL

Hey Travis, if you are referring to the Elite you got from me, I am going to emphatically agree as I thought the Burr Brown was better than the Sabre in my Peachtree.

And you are making me miss that thing even more.

trav0810

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Hey Travis, if you are referring to the Elite you got from me, I am going to emphatically agree as I thought the Burr Brown was better than the Sabre in my Peachtree.

And you are making me miss that thing even more.

That's ther one. Since I got it from you, I haven't hardly even used my Clic, excpet for when we are just working around the house and want to throw on a playlist.

nooshinjohn

What a train wreck this thread turned into...

billbillw wrote: »

The build quality is probably among the best ever. If it were free, I would take it and try to fix it up, but beware, the lasers/optical pickup are pretty much unobtanium.

I would look at it and trouble shoot a bit. If the tray doesn't open, its most likely just a belt. Pop the top, manually open and get a disc in there. If the mechanism doesn't spin discs up when they are in a closed tray, it could be something in control which would be difficult to trouble shoot and may have issue with parts not being available. If it spins up but doesn't come up with the track index or play, then it could be the laser/optical pickup which as I mentioned, is unobtainium, but it may also be as simple as needing some lube on the rails, or an adjustment on the clamping mechanism.

Free, give it a try, if they want a good amount of money, stay away.

Thanks for that... I am looking at it pretty hard, but I think my Elite D9 MkII is looking like the better unit.

pitdogg2

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What a train wreck this thread turned into...

I was thinking the same thing:rolleyes:

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Thanks for that... I am looking at it pretty hard, but I think my Elite D9 MkII is looking like the better unit.

Well yea it play's SACD so yes I would say it is the better unit.

billbillw

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What a train wreck this thread turned into...


Thanks for that... I am looking at it pretty hard, but I think my Elite D9 MkII is looking like the better unit.

Uh, yeah! The D9 is hard to beat, especially given the fact that it works! Not sure if you remember, but a D9 is in my main 2-ch system as well

That old Sony would be a nice nostalgia piece, part of a semi-vintage Sony ES system. They have amazing build quality, but IMO they were never tops for sound quality.

cnh

I agree. That D9 can compete with a lot of players twice its MSRP. It sounds absolutely "wonderful"! And I really doubt the old Sony would bring any improvement there!

Long live the Hard Drive music crowd and its High End DACs. Convenience, convenience, convenience. Just imagine if you read BOOKS the way these guys listen to music, i.e., you NEVER read the ENTIRE book, you ONLY read the PARTS that interest you by using the INDEX and turning to those pages. Of course you don't do this with a REAL BOOK, you use a KINDLE or the like? Now that's FUNNY, and also a great way to dumb down any topic you might be interested in learning something about.

You think artists cut albums for the purpose of giving you ONE song that you'll listen to and disregard the rest? Isn't that a disservice to their "art"? Oh well, who cares, it's all about "me" and instant gratification now isn't it?

cnh

cnh

DSkip wrote: »

What makes you think that even though we listen with computers that we don't value the album? I still buy my CD's and rip them to the hard drive. I usually listen to an entire album too, not a compilation of favorite songs. Furthermore, I've been wanting to do computer-based for the last 2-3 years, but it took that long just to find a reasonably-priced DAC that was an improvement over my Pioneer BDP. I'm all about SQ over convenience, but in my rig, I'm getting both.


Don't be so quick to point the finger on that one.



My point with the original post is that older CDP's just aren't worth the time. There might be a few gems in the lot, but for what it might take to invest in one, you'd probably be better off pursuing other avenues.

Point taken, but you have to "admit" that almost all of the arguments for a DAC based server are pretty much "music at your finger tips for your pleasure and arrangement". Of course you can listen to an entire album. But I BET most guys above don't do much of that! And I'm certain I would be proved right on this.

In any case I'm happy that there are "exceptions"!

There is also a RAGING battle in my profession about whether stacks and books in libraries are necessary, and would we lose anything if we stored everything and tried to get the essentials in digital form. Well, we would lose the legacy of the LIBRARY and not so much for sheer convenience but because administrators want to downsize, fire librarians and transform library space into multi-media expanses of Edutainment for the masses of students who need so desperately to be distracted and entertained as the competition for those $60K+ a year educations heats up. It's all about the money, in the end. And no one is attending to the needs of the "scholar"?

Heck, why don't we digitize the great works of ART in the great museums of the world, like the Louvre, and use that space for BUSINESS, etc. People can stay at home and download images of Picasso and van Gogh. Who needs to BE in front of the actual ART to experience it?



cnh

SCompRacer

cnh wrote: »

Point taken, but you have to "admit" that almost all of the arguments for a DAC based server are pretty much "music at your finger tips for your pleasure and arrangement". Of course you can listen to an entire album. But I BET most guys above don't do much of that! And I'm certain I would be proved right on this.

So you assume everyone with a CD player plays the entire album? Were you aware that players even have remotes that allow selecting individual tracks and some do just that?

tonyb

Regardless of the format, I'll listen to a new album/cd/whatever once, then I simply cherry pick the songs I like. Did we all not do this with 8-tracks,cassettes, cd's ? You always skip to the songs you prefer. Why would I waste my time on songs I don't like ?

cnh

SCompRacer wrote: »

So you assume everyone with a CD player plays the entire album? Were you aware that players even have remotes that allow selecting individual tracks and some do just that?

That assumption is not being made. But the suggestion is that more, probably let the player run whereas if you have a server you're less likely to do so. We can play this "parsing" game forever but you guys know full well what is being said here, we don't need to start tacking a series of clauses to a legal contract. I'm reminded of how academics will seize on ONE item to make an entire career. It is very easy to nay say. But that doesn't derail the generalization it merely provides the exceptional cases, which are always there.

For some NO general argument suffices, however if we cannot generalize in the least thinking becomes impossible, because there will "always" be an exception. Such arguments caused stagnation in many disciplines in the early 20th century and also at the end with the Postmodern turn in the social sciences. You literally couldn't say anything or quote anyone without offending or appropriating something. It got to the point where we were just being silly and contrarian merely for the sake of being so.

What is being said here describes a general trend in our society, read the full text I provide above because I move beyond the question of music servers to deal with more important issues.

That's enough for now. Yes, you have remotes, yes you can listen to a full album and yes to whatever ELSE anyone wishes to add but the main POINT is not diminished by all that may be appended to it.

If you've ever had a precocious teenager you've seen this line of argumentation. It generally takes the form of "what about this, or this, or this". lol Is it the forest for the trees, the trees for the forest? Lumpers or splitters? And so on.

cnh