Receiver for TSI400 5.1 set up

Eddieh

New guy here, I just bought a TSI400 5.1 set, fronts, center... ext. and am now wondering if my reciver is sized ok. I have a Yamaha RX-V377. The system will mostly be used for movies in my 16x30 living room. Any advive would be greatly appreciated. The 400's shipped today and im getting excited.

Thanks in advance!

Jimbo18

Eddieh wrote: »

New guy here, I just bought a TSI400 5.1 set, fronts, center... ext. and am now wondering if my reciver is sized ok. I have a Yamaha RX-V377. The system will mostly be used for movies in my 16x30 living room. Any advive would be greatly appreciated. The 400's shipped today and im getting excited.

Thanks in advance!

I think most of the advice you will get will be that you need more power to the fronts and center. I have a similar Yamaha to yours and it does okay, but even in my bedroom, which is 2/3 the size of your living room, it's underpowered.

Your receiver doesn't have pre-outs, so you can't add a power amp to it, so you would need to upgrade your AVR to one that does have them, in order to add one. If you want to stick with Yamaha, I think you need to move up all the way to the RX-V777 to get pre-outs and it's significantly more expensive. On older models, I think the RX-V673 had pre-outs.

But there are tons of options if you decide to upgrade your AVR and you should get plenty of advice on this site to help you spend you money wisely.

Eddieh

Thanks, I like the video quality of Yamaha A/V units so i was hoping to stick with it. I have been looking at a Yamaha RX-A830, specs below. Also has 7.1 preouts but i am truly lost on how to select a outboard amp. I dont mind spending a little money on this to get good sound.

Amplifier Section Channel 7.2
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 2ch driven) 110 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 100 W (8 ohms, 0.09% THD)
Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) 140 / 180 / 210 / 250 W

I am a total newb with equipment, and I cant seem to find hard facts on how the power distribution works setting up 5.1 surround. My sub is self powered but what about the other 5 channels, 100 watts/5?

Jimbo18

I have read some great things on this forum about the Aventage line of receivers. If you go that way, I would see how it sounds to you before buying a power amp.

I am not sure I understand your question about power distribution but if you mean how do you power the fronts, center and surrounds, you run speaker wire from the appropriate terminals at the back of the receiver to the back of each speaker. Black to black and red to red.

Although the AVR is rated at 110 w/channel, that is usually true with only 2 channels driven, so when you run 5 channels, the output drops to each channel.

Pretty much anyone that posts on this site can give you more knowledgeable info than I can, so wait for others to chime in, and in the meantime, read some of the past posts on this forum related to setting up a surround sound system. There are tons of them with advice about speaker placement, wire choices, external amps, etc.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

Jimbo is right. It's hard to say what 5 channels continuous would be on that Yamaha but my guess would be that it drops by at least 50 percent of two channel power to somewhere around 50 watts x 5? Still enough to drive your speaker set crossed over at 80 hz with a GOOD sub!

Aventage Yamahas are the best Yamahas. Get whichever one is the entry model as long as it has pre-outs!

cnh

tonyb

I'll second the Yamaha Aventage line.....good receivers. However, you have a fairly big room there to fill with sound, buy the biggest center and subwoofer you can afford. Also....when you get your receiver, read the manual cover to cover, twice. That way you'll get a good feel on what everything does and how to set it up.

Eddieh

Thanks for the info! i will go with the A830 reciver, the store has a 30 day return policy so if it does not work out i can return it. I read somewhere that under powering your speakers causes damage so i was worried about the wattage output on all channels driven. Is there a way to calculate it?

Cnh stated, 50x5 is good, and that confuses me because i "assumed" that i would want to push the fronts at full rated power 200 watts to get good sound. is this not the case?

Sorry for all the questions, I have been reading through the forums and my head is spinning because when i think i understand the concept i run into another point of view and im lost again.

Nightfall

All the later(ish) Yamaha AVR's have significantly less power than their counterparts, including the Aventage line. The Aventage line has great SQ, they put a lot of work into that line, but pure grunt from a Yamaha AVR? Not like the Pioneer SC units. The 1020, a higher model than the one you're looking at, only puts out 57 watts x 7. Maybe you should step up a couple places to one that has preouts?

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-rx-a1020-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

I have a RX-V667 and it is gutless if you want it loud. All dynamics disappear.

Eddieh

The A830 has preouts for 7.1, I was just looking at B&K amps because they seem to be favored here. Would a 125 watt x 7 be good for the TSI400's? My rears are only rated at 100 watts.

tonyb

Eddieh wrote: »

Thanks for the info! i will go with the A830 reciver, the store has a 30 day return policy so if it does not work out i can return it. I read somewhere that under powering your speakers causes damage so i was worried about the wattage output on all channels driven. Is there a way to calculate it?

Cnh stated, 50x5 is good, and that confuses me because i "assumed" that i would want to push the fronts at full rated power 200 watts to get good sound. is this not the case?

Sorry for all the questions, I have been reading through the forums and my head is spinning because when i think i understand the concept i run into another point of view and im lost again.

Pay no attention to those "recommended wattage use" on the speakers, they mean little. Also, you have to understand some basic principles to best pick the gear you want.

The more speakers you add to a average receiver, the less power they all get. Why ? Because you have one shared power supply in a receiver. That's why we suggest to anyone getting a receiver to make sure it has 5.1 pre-outs. Why ? To be able to add an external amp if you need more power or upgrade your speakers down the road. No pre-outs means your locked into certain speaker choices.

Is that 50 watts ok ? Maybe...maybe not. Your speakers are fairly easy to drive and with the subwoofer taking up the bulk of the load, you may be ok. Those lower bass notes is what sucks up the power, if you take that responsibility off the receivers power, more is left for the receiver to give to the rest of the frequency range in your speakers. Follow so far ?

Now, because your room is big, and depending on how loud you like to listen, those determining factors will dictate what you need. Simple solution is to buy a receiver with pre-outs, try using just the receiver to power it all. If you like, do nothing more. If you feel it's not dynamic enough or is straining at higher volumes, you then have the ability to add more power with an amplifier by way of the pre-outs.

Nightfall

Eddieh wrote: »

The A830 has preouts for 7.1

Just saw that, the 830 might be a fine choice for you, then. Keep in mind you have to go up to the 1030 to get the symmetrical amp layout and vibration dampening - that's where the Aventage line really steps up to the plate.

Eddieh

When comparing the Aventage units they all say to include vibration dampening. The 1030 says its built with a symmetrical amp layout....worth the extra $300? One difference that stands out from the 830 up is the ESS dac. I listened to the 830 connected to some Klipsch at the store today and other than the ear pearcing highs of the Klipsch it sounded really good to me. I took Tonyb advice and brought the 830 home, and although it does not have the punch here as it did in the store it still sounds ok. What out board amp would you all recomend?

Nightfall

Eddieh wrote: »

...although it does not have the punch here as it did in the store...

That's because Klipsch are highly efficient speakers. They play loudly with very little power.

Nightfall

Does it sound better to you than your RX-V377 or same to your ears?

Eddieh

Yes, it does seem to have more clarity on the high and mid range levels. I wish now i would have asked the guy what the efficiency of those speakers were.

Nightfall

Have you run YPAO or did you just hook it up and go?

Eddieh

HAHA, I ran the YPAO set up dozen times playing with it. I placed the sensor in the normal seating area first then moved it around to see how much ajustment it made. It actually determins speaker distance from the seating area and makes remomendations. Im digging this reciver. The wife is totaly in love with the set up which is nice because i got a royal chewing today when i walked in with the 830.

tonyb

Don't move the mic around the room, that won't do you any favors. Listening position, ear level, and then fine tune any of the settings it makes to your liking.

If you lacking some punch, go into the settings and see what it set your speaker levels to. If you want to do it my ear, reset them all to 0 and adjust up or down to balance out.

YPAO isn't meant to be run dozens of times, it's a once and forget about function, unless you add or remove gear. It is also simply a guide to the proper settings, not cast in stone, so you may have to tweek some of those settings. Did you read the manual ?

Eddieh

Yeah, i was just messing around with it by running it a few times. Where i am hung up is the wording in the manual...

"Speakers that support bi-amp connections connect them to the FRONT jacks and SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP JACKS." There is a diagram showing the surround/back channels wired to the second posts on the front speakers.

The TSI400’s have the ability however the question is does this send more watts to the fronts or because its adding another channel will it actually reduce power on all channels including the fronts? If so, the way my mind works bi-amping in that config would ultimately wash because even by adding another channels power, it is robbing available power from the entire system.. Does that make sense or should I try it to hear if there is a difference?

Nightfall

Eddieh wrote: »

The TSI400’s have the ability however the question is does this send more watts to the fronts or because its adding another channel will it actually reduce power on all channels including the fronts? If so, the way my mind works bi-amping in that config would ultimately wash because even by adding another channels power, it is robbing available power from the entire system.

Hit the nail square on the head.

tonyb

Nightfall wrote: »

Hit the nail square on the head.

Bingo...sometimes you have to decipher between marketing B.S. and real world. Goes for more than audio products too.

Eddieh

Thanks for the help!

Eddieh

Ok, I recently heard a tsi series 5.1 set up "400s LR, 100's sournd and cs100 center" same set up i have, sound pretty awsome with an outlaw 7200 power amp. It was not louder but much cleaner sound... crisper i guess. So the question I have is does running all channels amp'd and nothing on the AV unit create heat issues for the reciver?