RIP Another USA factory bites the dust.....

Dennis Gardner

Fender squeezed another USA factory into closure. First it was Hamer, now Ovation. This may mean the end of USA Guild too.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/ovation-guitar-factory-connecticut-closing-23441795

NJPOLKER

Terrible

The lack of manufacturing in this country really really really bothers me. Here in Rhode Island where the true unemployment rate in around 20% we have very little manufacturing. That on top of a really poor educational system and it's a disaster. Dumbasses with little employment chances equals failure. Thank god for beautiful beaches and darn good hospitality or it would be even worse.

I purchased four oxygen sensors (Bosch) for my Chevy Suburban and gotta say I was surprised they are manufactured in the USA

If there is only one guy to place the blame on it is in my humble opinion Slick Willy Clinton.

Enough of my rant LOL

Dennis Gardner

^^^ So correct....favored nation status.

steveinaz

We have a tax environment that encourages moving production overseas.

Dennis Gardner

steveinaz wrote: »

We have a tax environment that encourages moving production overseas.

2 things started the whole spiral, favored nation status to China by Clinton and Sam Walton's passing. I know this is oversimplified, but its true.

jflail2

It'd be nice if China would finally step into the world of a true free-float currency. While they're not the only currency manipulator, any effort to keep their currency value below market value makes their goods and services "cheap" relative to the US dollar. That and their minimum wage by province ranges between $1-3 per hour (and labor laws in general are more lax in regards to hours you can be required to work, etc), so it's even tougher for us to stay competitive with China on the manufacturing front.

Another oversimplified response, but the gist is there.

cnh

Sad news! Chinese manufacturing would have replaced ours regardless of nation status, unfortunately. Blaming politicians instead of Corporations that "benefit" directly and "lobbied" big time for that is a tad simplistic. The Willies were just doing the bidding of the big boys. And for that matter. U.S. manufacturing started going away A LOT earlier than Clinton. Probably began toward the end of the Ford period, continued through Jimmy, and had a holiday under Ronnie.

I grew up in industrial Pa. And this is the timeline I saw as the steel industry, Mack Trucks, etc. started their big big slide. From which that area NEVER fully recovered, it just survived.

Corporations love their profits, capital is international (without boundaries it has NO allegiance to ANY nation anywhere)--it's purpose? To grow, and grow and grow and NEVER be taxed anywhere, anytime, any place. This is it's raison d'etre. And it is finally completely "free". Why should it EVER return manufacturing to the U.S.? I can't see a reason that would make sense to it.

Both the left and the right are simply talking heads for the "money" that animates them.

cnh

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

Both the left and the right are simply talking heads for the "money" that animates them.

cnh

Dear God...you and I need to have a beer one of these days. Spot on my good man.

zane77

It's not just the corporations but the stockholders demand better and better return for their investments.

Toolfan66

Agreed, but being in the manufacturing business I have a hard time finding people that want to "work" since 2008 it has been very hard. It seems when the economy took a dive, and a lot of people lost their jobs most said screw it it's not worth it, a lot of people that worked their tails of to have what they had in this industry, and lost everything, homes, cars, maybe even their marriage, find it easier to just live off the system.

I'm not sure if any of this is true, but I bet there are a few cases like this. And the younger people want nothing to do with a trade in manufacturing, most of them anyways. It is a dying breed in this country..

With this said after 2009 we have had the best years we have ever had, every year since then our numbers have gone up, and we are on pace to do better then last year. I'm sure some of it is due to the loss of so many other businesses that couldn't stay above water during that time.

We have had to resort to cross training in many areas due to the fact we can't find people trained in those areas. I wear many hats at work, and take on a lot of responsibility to keep things going, but I/we refuse to say no to any job, if we can make money on it we figure out a way to make it happen, and are willing to do what it takes to get it done, I'm very grateful for the guys I have working for me that help make it all happen.

Devlon

steveinaz wrote: »

We have a tax environment that encourages moving production overseas.

This is sad. This reminds me of Baldwin pianos. The Baldwin Piano Company was an iconic American piano brand that was once the largest US-based manufacturer of pianos. It ceased domestic production of pianos, moving production to China.

Lord, what iconic brand will be built by the Chinese next? Harley-Davidson, lol

Dennis Gardner

I've got no problem with downsizing, that is simply a result of market change. What I have a problem with is taking an American Icon type of company that created their own segment, (first acoustic electric guitar company, that had 2/3 of market share in the early 90's) and turning it into strictly an import company. Professionals playing the Ovation Legend and classical guitarists playing Adamas brand all are left without that choice any more unless they move a few luthiers to Corona, CA. where they still have a Fender custom shop. I understand the market, but I think that our best artists still deserve choices from our best companies.

Rant Mode Off....

Devlon

The root of the problem is allegiance to the dollar rather than an allegiance to our own.

GlennDog

Devlon wrote: »

This is sad.

Lord, what iconic brand will be built by the Chinese next? Harley-Davidson, lol

You would be surprised how much H-D part etc. is NOT made is the Good 'Ol US of A . . .

I dread it, but it is almost there ALREADY!!

God, Save the Queen (not Obama) . . .

Stop me now!

sucks2beme

Desk jobs are going offshore at a record pace as well.
At some point, we become the 3rd world country.

tonyb

Most middle class jobs will soon be gone anyway....how you going to compete with slave labor ? Then they keep raising taxes to make up for lost income while still allowing the elite a back door out of it. Ever hear the elite say " Please raise my taxes" ? They don't care because another option to get out of actually paying that will be attached to another bill.

The big corporations and elite class employ plenty of tax consultants/lawyers/CPA's for the sole purpose of limiting their tax liability. Why limit it if you claim to want to pay more ? Write the check....add it to your return, anyone is free to do so. Why do you think the tax code is so convoluted ? It's loaded with taxes and deductions only the elite can take advantage of while you have a limited amount to concern yourself with.

Companies are leaving left and right, have been for years. The climate here is not conducive for them to stay. Plus we make it easy for them to operate in other countries and hide their income from the states. Apple/Google/Facebook/G.E. just to name a few.As long as they keep donating big coin, they buy themselves laws/tax codes favorable to their needs.

Where does all this leave millions of workers ? Screwed...that's where. With no choice left but to go on the government dole....live in cheap small row houses like in England. With crappy healthcare and a hope you die quickly to save the state that government dole. You can say a lot of people need to be re trained for emerging markets and that's true for some, but others it would amount to trying to re train an Elephant to fly. With our balance sheet so far in the red, our jobs doing a disappearing act, value of the dollar going south, energy and food prices going north, borders practically open, how do you think this all turns out ? You don't need psychic abilities to figure this out.

dkg999

Sadly, my Honda Accord has a higher US parts content than my HD motorcycle.

WLDock

cnh wrote: »

Sad news! Chinese manufacturing would have replaced ours regardless of nation status, unfortunately. Blaming politicians instead of Corporations that "benefit" directly and "lobbied" big time for that is a tad simplistic. The Willies were just doing the bidding of the big boys. And for that matter. U.S. manufacturing started going away A LOT earlier than Clinton. Probably began toward the end of the Ford period, continued through Jimmy, and had a holiday under Ronnie.

I grew up in industrial Pa. And this is the timeline I saw as the steel industry, Mack Trucks, etc. started their big big slide. From which that area NEVER fully recovered, it just survived.

Corporations love their profits, capital is international (without boundaries it has NO allegiance to ANY nation anywhere)--it's purpose? To grow, and grow and grow and NEVER be taxed anywhere, anytime, any place. This is it's raison d'etre. And it is finally completely "free". Why should it EVER return manufacturing to the U.S.? I can't see a reason that would make sense to it.

Both the left and the right are simply talking heads for the "money" that animates them.

cnh

Yeah, growing up in the 70's , son of an auto worker in Detroit, there was a lot going on waaay before Clinton as some seem to think. You are so correct about both sides going after the money ....for at least that last fourty years or so.

Msabot1

Manufacturing in this country has been on a downward spiral since the end of the Vietnam war...despite the governments cooked books and numbers...that part of our history is gone with the wind...like the book says...look for it only in books.....

pitdogg2

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Agreed, but being in the manufacturing business I have a hard time finding people that want to "work" since 2008 it has been very hard. It seems when the economy took a dive, and a lot of people lost their jobs most said screw it it's not worth it, a lot of people that worked their tails of to have what they had in this industry, and lost everything, homes, cars, maybe even their marriage, find it easier to just live off the system.

I'm not sure if any of this is true, but I bet there are a few cases like this. And the younger people want nothing to do with a trade in manufacturing, most of them anyways. It is a dying breed in this country..

With this said after 2009 we have had the best years we have ever had, every year since then our numbers have gone up, and we are on pace to do better then last year. I'm sure some of it is due to the loss of so many other businesses that couldn't stay above water during that time.

We have had to resort to cross training in many areas due to the fact we can't find people trained in those areas. I wear many hats at work, and take on a lot of responsibility to keep things going, but I/we refuse to say no to any job, if we can make money on it we figure out a way to make it happen, and are willing to do what it takes to get it done, I'm very grateful for the guys I have working for me that help make it all happen.

I agree with most all here Larry. When you and I graduated school we could get a job out of high school with the tech classes we took. Although most were on a downhill slide they were there. Now most of the time kids must go to college trade schools and incur pretty good expenses before they can get a apprentice job making little more than minimum wage. It's very hard to live and pay off the courses on that dime. You are one of the few that has that work mentality these days and that seems to be a rare trait anymore. I am NOT trying to make excuses for them but it is what it is. I did a lot of foundry and lathe work for a few years after high school and had a good mentor but now 25yrs later I'd be dangerous on that lathe...When a car plant came to out town I was offered a good paying job to leave my mentors place of business I didn't. Might of been the best choice I made in life as that very car plant went from 24/7 with 5000 employees now to 12hrs days and only 900 employees.

Dennis Gardner

Msabot1 wrote: »

Manufacturing in this country has been on a downward spiral since the end of the Vietnam war...despite the governments cooked books and numbers...that part of our history is gone with the wind...like the book says...look for it only in books.....

True statement, just a different country. Japan could actually be somewhat controlled due to its size and output capacity. China (the largest population of workers in the world) given free reigns is a totally different monster......that didn't happen until the '90s.

oldmodman

The employees should take their decades of experience and open up a custom shop the day after the factory closes.

And make very high end custom (read expensive) guitars. Make sure that it is made very apparent that they are "The Company Formerly Know As Ovation"
And we have absolutely NO RELATIONSHIP with Fender Corporation.
We are just a guild of experienced guitar craftsmen.

Dennis Gardner

oldmodman wrote: »

The employees should take their decades of experience and open up a custom shop the day after the factory closes.

And make very high end custom (read expensive) guitars. Make sure that it is made very apparent that they are "The Company Formerly Know As Ovation"
And we have absolutely NO RELATIONSHIP with Fender Corporation.
We are just a guild of experienced guitar craftsmen.

If they got the patent rights to that bowl design in their collective severance, that would work......

Msabot1

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

True statement, just a different country. Japan could actually be somewhat controlled due to its size and output capacity. China (the largest population of workers in the world) given free reigns is a totally different monster......that didn't happen until the '90s.

. Truly they are...with India a close second..however,the door to this was opened with Nixons and Kissengers Ping Pong diplomacy in 1971 I believe...

WilliamM2

46 employees? While I hate to see anyone lose their job, this hardly seems like the fall of the US economy.

dromunds

Msabot1 is correct: Nixon opened this so-called door to trade with China. Corrupt politicians abide and have sold us down the river for the almighty dollar, both parties. But Toolfan is also correct, I also cannot find young people who want to work. Why should they? Everything they've gotten is for free. They don't feel like showing up they just don't show up. Awhile ago I called a guy who didn't show up and told him I was relying on him to be there that day and he acted like I was an a$@hole because I didn't understand he didn't feel like coming that day. He was never called back again. They're not all like that, I recently had a pair of twins that were the best workers I ever had, raised right, you didn't have to watch them constantly, but then they went off to college and now its back to square one.

xjghost

Sad to see....

Msabot1

It is sad...with all the problems this country faces now...work ethic should not be on the list...The lack of which is one good reason we are where we are today...as a very famous individual once said...showing up is 99% of life....