Add a sub to bookshelf system?

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Calverley
Calverley Posts: 9
edited February 2004 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm upgrading my bedroom audio system which is used primarily at low volume (60 - 70 dB or so). I've gotten some RT35i speakers which the specs say should be quite good down to 50 Hz. I'm wondering whether a subwoofer would significantly enhance the overall sound quality or if it's not really necessary for just CDs at modest volume.

Just completed home theater audio and obviously the sub is a huge part of that experience. But I'm wondering whether sub plus bookshelf speakers is the best way to get small system performance. Interested in experience ... opinions. - Ted
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    70 dB is the level of normal conversation... You listen that low or lower?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2004
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    Calverly - It entirely depends on what crossover point you use for the subwoofer.

    I use a subwoofer for my computer rig, Mission bookends and a Yamaha subwoofer....and it is much better with the sub. I like to have a little more impact when listening to music or playing games. It fills the room better for my application.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Calverley
    Calverley Posts: 9
    edited February 2004
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    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    70 dB is the level of normal conversation... You listen that low or lower?

    Hey, I know it sounds crazy, but with the kids asleep and the wife dozing off, I'm lucky I get to play music at all as we drift off to sleep each night. I measured the sound level - and you'd be surprised how loud 70 dB sounds in a bedroom in a totally quiet house.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited February 2004
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    Yes, a subwoofer will give you more oomph and warmer sound. Not sure if it will work out with your wife and kids though especially when they're trying to sleep. But you can always rock on in the day and turn down the sub's volume at night:).

    Maurice
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    At 70 dB I don't think the sub will get noticed...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited February 2004
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    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    At 70 dB I don't think the sub will get noticed...

    Agree.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • Calverley
    Calverley Posts: 9
    edited February 2004
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    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    At 70 dB I don't think the sub will get noticed...

    OK. So the message I'm getting is that the sub may not be too helpful at really low volumes, but it would definitely enhance the performace if I use this system at normal listening levels. That makes complete sense.

    I realize some of you may be rolling your eyes about the low volume thing, but hey I like the idea of having great sound as I relax late at night, so why not.

    Ted
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    Not rolling eyes... Circumstances dictate how I listen as well.

    Should you get up to 80 or 85 db I think the sub would kick in as well, but I think you'd be better served buying a nice headphone set...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited February 2004
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    Not a fan of tone controls myself, but I think you'd probably be better served at low levels by just engaging the 'loudness' contour, vs buying a sub.

    Although many use it at any level, I believe it was designed for exactly your scenario - to provide more impact, at low listening levels.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    Are any Manf's even including "loudness" circuits anymore?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited February 2004
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    Oh yeah. On receivers you will still see the 'loudness' switch, however some have a different name such as '3d Bass'. Preamps like to use a little more esoteric naming convention it seems, such as 'Bass Eq'. At the end of the day, it's all loudness contouring.

    Put a 6db (or so) push on the 35's at 50-60Hz, you'll be in business for low level listening.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    So maybe Caverly should be hunting a nice little EQ...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Ceruleance
    Ceruleance Posts: 991
    edited February 2004
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    Or a nice vintage integrated with tone controls. Those old SS integrateds are built like rocks and go for a song on ebay. (he never mentioned what he is using to drive them with now did he?)

    I second whoever suggested headphones. A good pair of headphones will blow the 35's out of the water
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited February 2004
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    Originally posted by Ceruleance

    I second whoever suggested headphones. A good pair of headphones will blow the 35's out of the water

    I agree as well. A nice pair will sound great at low volumes as well. Frankly, with my Sennheiser 590's the only reason I find to play them loud is if I need to block out other noises around me, otherwise there is no improvement in quality of sound. Just louder. I think this would make for a good application of headphone use.
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  • Calverley
    Calverley Posts: 9
    edited February 2004
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    The amp is a Sony STR VX250 from the early 80's for my grad school apartment - low budget, small space. Of course that means it does have a loudness circuit which I find makes for a warmer sound at low levels. that was a great suggestion.

    This cobbled together system for the bedroom has become my current mini project, so picking up odds and ends (sub, equalizer, upgraded amp etc.) are things to consider - especially if I can do it on a budget.

    Headphones would be the plan if I start to get flack for my late night listening. Thanks for the well thought out input

    Ted
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited February 2004
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    I you are getting flak for late night listening, I assume you mean others don't want to listen to your music as well. I know that my headphones are "open" and probably let out 1/3 of the volume or a little more to others around me. Its far from silent to others. There are closed-back headphones, but from my understanding, not many of the higher quality cans are closed and they decrease the already low bass.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2004
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    Yep, that was a great suggestion....I too am not a tone control fan, so easy things like that don't get remembered anymore. Good call Russman :)

    I also love the headphone suggestion, don't go cheap $29.99 on the headphones, source out a nice pair. www.audioadvisor.com is running a nice special on Sennheiser HD600's right now. They are very highly rated.

    Check out, www.headphone.com for headphone data, sales and reviews.

    Vintage NAD includes ALL those definitions in their older stuff...Bass EQ, Low Level and Loudness Compensation :D
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
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    The headphones are a good alternative...however an open design like the Sennheiser HD 600s can still be heard by someone close by. I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 PROs that are a sealed design and close out much of the sound (either way). Not as good as the Senn 600s, but not bad. Every bit as good as the Grado SR60s and SR80s IMO which are very highly thought of cans. They don't need a headphone amp to sound good. Last I saw, Amazon had them for $69 which is a nice price.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited February 2004
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    Another good forum to check out if you are interested in headphones is www.head-fi.org. There is a lot of information to sort through there. Check out their Flea Market. Its much more active than this forum and good deals come pretty often there. They also go pretty quickly too.

    I forgot to mention in ear headphones. Etymotic and Shure make excellent and not too expensive (on the whole) in-ear/in-ear-canal ear-buds that are apparently excellent. My understanding is that their bass output is among the best as well. I can't comment on the Shures, but the Etymotics are supposed to be real crowd pleasers. I would imagine also that not much sound escapes from them, as they are pretty near your brain anyways. Unless you have a small brain.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
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    Koss Pro 4 AA's...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter