Sounds good but not the same as cd

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Comments

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,528
    edited April 2014
    FTGV wrote: »
    I suspect most audiophiles will try to avoid using itunes if possible...

    Most audiophiles will not use a general purpose CPU for digital file playback. Instead they will use a dedicated, optimized file player such as the Bryston BDP1 or BDP-2. :biggrin:
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,628
    edited April 2014
    Agreed,but us Cheapo-philes have to make due.The BDP's are slick pieces of engineering.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited April 2014
    FTGV wrote: »
    I suspect most audiophiles will try to avoid using itunes if possible ,but if one absolutely must the JPlay software will allow you to squeeze a bit more SQ out of your itunes library on a PC.
    Ofcourse J River is completely stand alone and I'm not aware of another Windows player thats offers the great feature set and more important excellent sound.They have also recently introduced a Mac version.

    Again, we agree. For windows ITunes....Jriver is about as good as it's going to get. Which I don't get if they can make programs to run on top of ITunes for macs, why not for windows ?

    Btw...ask Bobsauto about running plain ITunes lossless into his Cary 100t dac. Given the rest of his gear list, I think the dude qualifies as an audiophile. Stand alone music servers are nice, but with advancements in dacs these days, seem obsolete soon. Plus the cash outlay for a good music server.....you can buy a hell of a dac for that coinage.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,528
    edited April 2014
    tonyb wrote: »
    In that aspect, yeah...not the same. Which kinda sucks because Windows based PC''s don't have much in the way of programs to run on top of ITUNES.

    Then get a Linux based music server. Here is one getting good press, and it is only $17,000.

    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/573-aurender-w20-review/
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited April 2014
    LOL....17K, yeah right. Thanks for making my point. 2 years from now you could probably pick one up for 10k. Now that's a return on investment....not !
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,528
    edited April 2014
    No thanks. In two years I will still have my Bryston BDP-1, that cost 2K two years ago. Triple 2. LOL.

    However, while a generic computer can sound pretty good, a dedicated machine designed for a single purpose will outperform it. The real lesson here is the performance of the $17K music server will be available for a much lower price in the near future. Whether it is DACs or music servers, life is getting better and less expensive each year.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited April 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    ... life is getting better and less expensive each year.

    Oh...dunno about that. Think I can find a few hundred million that will disagree with that. Technology in general becomes cheaper as time goes on, but as a whole everything becomes more expensive.

    You are right in the sense that a dedicated music server will out perform a computer on any given day. Which is why I want to see computers built for audio in the future. Could resurrect the whole PC market which is biting the dust lately.

    B&k's approach to combining components.....just bolt 2 together and have them talk to each other. That's basically how they did their receivers....bolt an amp to a processor. I think the PC market can do that with 'putters and music servers.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,528
    edited April 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Whether it is DACs or music servers, life is getting better and less expensive each year.
    tonyb wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    ...life is getting better and less expensive each year.

    Oh...dunno about that. Think I can find a few hundred million that will disagree with that. Technology in general becomes cheaper as time goes on, but as a whole everything becomes more expensive.

    You are right in the sense that a dedicated music server will out perform a computer on any given day. Which is why I want to see computers built for audio in the future. Could resurrect the whole PC market which is biting the dust lately.

    B&k's approach to combining components.....just bolt 2 together and have them talk to each other. That's basically how they did their receivers....bolt an amp to a processor. I think the PC market can do that with 'putters and music servers.

    I was ignoring this, but it has grated on me all day. I was obviously talking about DACs and music servers. To quote someone out of context for a political dig, while true for a variety of reasons, does not inspire confidence in the message.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited April 2014
    I tried to change the IIR bandwidth to 60 then 70, It was set at 50. The bass weakened the higher i went up. Tony kind of described it the best. "Slight differences, not huge but noticeable....and not in a good way"

    It is slightly better in the high end and low end via the old monster ( don't laugh) coax feeding the w4s vs the usb / flac.

    I do have a different USB cable coming to check out. I will say the panega is a huge difference vs the stock cable that the unit came with. I am going to try playing with the volume next as suggested as well.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited April 2014
    I tried changing the volume from fixed. This made very little difference. For it to even be close to the volume of the cayin via coax its at max of 70. Sound was close as it was when it was set to fixed.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited April 2014
    Fidelizer made a big difference. Its still not there yet but, its closer!
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • Polkitup2Polkitup2 Posts: 1,496
    edited April 2014
    Also, what Version of Windows are you using? Windows 7 and 8 sound better than XP. I also have a Wyred DAC-2 DSD SE with Femto clock using JRiver 18 and Windows 8. It sounds phenomenal. I also use an Audioquest Diamond USB cable which was a big upgrade over Audioquest Cinnamon.

  • PolkieManPolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited April 2014
    You nailed it.

    Burn a CD (at 4x) of the FLAC files and see how they sound on your CD player.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Get a better file player and DAC if the CD player sounds better.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited April 2014
    But I'm using the same cd player through the dac. Same dac is being used for the cd and the flac files so I'm not understanding the comment.

    Polkitup, I did not know the windows versions would make a difference. That laptop I left on xp but, I do have 7 I can put on it.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,345
    edited April 2014
    This is why I use a Squeezebox Touch to play my flacs. I grew tired of all these software issues many years ago. Squeezebox is plug and play bit perfect.

    The suggestion by PolkieMan is a good one. Take a cd that sounds great through your player and rip it to flac. Then take those flacs and burn them back onto a cd, using a low speed burn. Then play the burned cd through the same player. If you can't distinguish between the original and the burn, then you've proven to yourself that there is nothing about flac as a source that is inferior to a cd, and what you have is a configuration problem with your playback methodology.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • IRLRaceFanIRLRaceFan Posts: 172
    edited April 2014
    I have a W4S DAC2 and found the SPDIF input to sound much better than USB. Note that I use a digital interface (USB to SPDIF), so that is a factor/influence to consider. I have tested this with Windows XP, 7, & 8.1 machines (J. River 19) and with a Mac Mini (Pure Music and J. River 19).

    I get the best sound (for my ear) with the Mac using Pure Music (Channel D) - FLAC files. On a side note, I tend to listen with J. River more than Pure Music because it's a close 2nd in sound quality and more straightforward to use (will play FLAC natively & is stand alone, compared to Pure Music that runs with iTunes and has to create translation files to run FLAC).

    Something you might want to try is to compare the sound with your laptop power supply vs. unplugged (running off the battery). A noisy power supply can influence a USB signal - mostly ones without a 3rd pin for ground.
    HT
    Onkyo TX-NR1008 | Magnepan 1.7 | Polk LSiC | Polk VM20 | Polk DSW microPro 2000 | Parasound HCA-2205A | Oppo BDP-93

    2-Ch
    Cary SLP 30 Tube Preamp | Polk LSi7 | Carver M1.5t | Audio-gd Digital Interface | W4S DAC-2 | MAC Mini | Denon DP300f & Pro-Ject Debut III TT's
  • StantonZStantonZ Posts: 393
    edited April 2014
    FWIW, I've also had great luck with a SPDIF instead of USB (DAC) interface. Even better, I can compare CD/DVD vs. FLAC (from an audio server) files via the same DAC (receiver/amp). If you want to read more, checkout an article I wrote about my recent experience at http://www.audioholics.com/diy-audio/building-a-media-server
    Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR (5.0.2)
    (4) Polk Monitor 10B's w/SoniCaps, Mills, and RDO-194 tweets (R/L F/R)
    (2) Polk Monitor 4's w/peerless tweets (Top Middle)
    Polk CS300 center channel
    Analog: B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
    Digital: Pioneer CLD-99 Elite LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-Ray
    LG 65EF9500 4K OLED
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited April 2014
    IRLRaceFan wrote: »
    I have a W4S DAC2 and found the SPDIF input to sound much better than USB. Note that I use a digital interface (USB to SPDIF), so that is a factor/influence to consider. I have tested this with Windows XP, 7, & 8.1 machines (J. River 19) and with a Mac Mini (Pure Music and J. River 19).
    Something you might want to try is to compare the sound with your laptop power supply vs. unplugged (running off the battery). A noisy power supply can influence a USB signal - mostly ones without a 3rd pin for ground.

    Excellent points. Power supply....and a USB to SPDIF converter. Many have used these with great results, just consider that they all are not created equal....like everything in audio. Digital isn't as easy to get right as analog is...too many variables to consider that effect the sound.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited August 2014
    Bringing this back from the dead.

    Swapped laptops from the old AMD XP box to an HP that has an I7, 64 bit win 7, 8 gig ram. SO besides speed, the sound is now the same as cd!. I still have one more issue though I need to address but, I will post that in another thread. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that helped me get the sound to match what I was hearing on the cdp using the same dac.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited August 2014
    dkg999 wrote: »
    For any given CD, my Jolida CDP with tube output sounds just a tad better than the ripped FLAC file played via my SBT and PS Audio DLIII DAC.

    Tubes. tubes, tubes. I concur!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited August 2014
    Doug,

    If you were to stick a tubed dac in the mix, your Jolida may be getting a new home in it's future. I'm thinking the Cary 100t with the SBT would send your cdp packing. The Aurelic dac is also pretty sweet though not tubed and does dsd 9 ways to Sunday.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mikey1987mikey1987 Posts: 68
    edited August 2014
    Dont mean to hijack the thread, but what do tubes offer in a DAC that a SS doesn't do? I was always under the impression that tubes are most useful in preamps and amps.
    Speakers: Polk RTi10
    Preamp: Parasound PL/D-1100
    Amplifier: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Neighbors: pissed off
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,132
    edited August 2014
    mikey1987 wrote: »
    Dont mean to hijack the thread, but what do tubes offer in a DAC that a SS doesn't do? I was always under the impression that tubes are most useful in preamps and amps.

    Why are they most useful in pre's and amps ? Because of the sound, nothing more or less. Same with dacs, it's about the sound of tubes.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,904
    edited August 2014
    I have a w4s dac and a tube arc sp16 pre. I also have a yaqin cd2 tube buffer I have been playing with on the back of the dac2. It doesnt suck.
    My sacd player is also tube. I wish the jolida I had did sacdm if it did I would still have it.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

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