Good turntable to start with. . .

newtoeverything · February 2004

Hi,

As you can see from the name I am just starting out into the audio department. After finally getting into this as a hobby I hope I can grow in knowlege to the point of actually understand half of what the hell people are talking about on here about pre-amps and tubes etc etc.

My question is of course is suggestions what turntable to start off with. I recently talked with someone in regards to JVC. Comments on the brand for turntable? I dont know what are good models, whats a good price to pay used etc etc. I've looked around at Pioneer's but once again dont know much about the quality as opposed to say the bidding price on ebay starts at $200US. I just would like something mid-range, nothing audiophile like some people in here probably have but just something to get my foot in the door as regards to turntables. Whats better. . .belt drive or direct drive?

Thank you for your help on this topic and I hope to learn a helluva lot from you guys. Appreciated!

Tour2ma · February 2004

Welcome, been a while since we had a good TT discussion 'round here.

There are many good used options for under $200US. Some will include a usable cartridge, some won't. A decent cartridge will run $100 or so. Replacement stylii maybe half of this.

A question... Do you have a Phono Pre-amp or a receiver with a built-in phono pre? If yes, fine. If no, then you're looking at another $100 or so for a phono pre.

Direct drive is probably the simplest and most reliable. Belt drives can be quieter owing to the added isolation of the platter from the motor that the belt provides. There is also a third drive system the rim drive.

For a pure starter I find it hard to not endorse the old AR XA. They are belt driven simplicity. Normally around $150 for a good one on ebay, they are "hot" right now and are going much higher.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=3074642815&ssPageName=STRK:MEBDW:IT

Others to consider are:
Dual. I own a 1229. As these were changers they are more mechanical, but were fairly robust and offered decent afforsable performance. The 1229 is a rim drive design.

Thorens - In addition to making some of the finest at any price, they made some every nice downscale TT's including the TD-160.

JVS, Pioneer, Technics and other "full line" audio companies, all made some decent, and occassionally even great, TT's, but I always tend to stay with the companies that focused on TT's.

I also tend to favor classic oldies, rather than the TT's still made today. Others should be along to level the field.

VE6OHV · February 2004

Wow - what are the chances.... Two guys from Alberta posting an almost Identical thread at the same time.....

What is going on here - Hello my Canadian Brother....... After years of thinking I was "alone" here.....

newtoeverything · February 2004

Wow, thats an awesome post. I've been writing some different ideas down and am researching the price.

That Dual on ebay is running about $70 - $100 US for the model 1229 alone. That's actually alright. I also prefer to go with the old fashioned turntables as opposed to brand new as well.

Thorens I have been finding are getting up there in the department of price but judging by the amount of bids that are thrown around that this is a good quality brand I just am not sure of models so I guess more research is in order. My only problem with ebay though is I get so mad when I do bid on something and am like 15 mins away from winning then when I next refresh the auction I find that I have been outbid by within the last 30 seconds. Unbelievable. Gets a bit frustrating.

And about the phono pre-amp no i dont know anything about those. I looked it up and it looks a little complicated to hook up because it looks like such a small device and not like some of the bigger pre-amps i've seen. Why is that needed? How do I know if my receiver has a built in one?

Any more feedback and ideas are still appreciated. Hopefully I can come out ontop here with a good turntable to go with my receiver.

PS I'm glad I can bring some sort of comfort to know that there is a fellow Canadian (not to mention Albertan) with ya.

Tour2ma · February 2004

On the pre-pro, if you have an older stereo receiver, it should have phono input(s). Newer AVR's don't.

An external phono pre is just a step up device to get the phono output (very low level) up to line stage input levels.

The price on the 1229's seems about right. Thorens do run more...

Here 's couple links for you...
Duals: http://compassnet.com/concept/tableinx.htm
Misc TT's: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/ttg.html

The trick in buying a TT is gettting a seller to pack it well for shipping. Be prepared to pay $30 or more for S&H. I've got some instructions I can send you when you buy.

Loud & Clear · February 2004

I have a newer AVR, a Denon 2802, and it has phono ins. Is Denon one of the few then that have a phono RCA in, as well as the ground?

PolkWannabie · February 2004

Onk's have it as well ...

bikezappa · February 2004

Try to buy an AR turntable on ebay. They were the best buy for many years in the 60's 70's and 80's. Rugged, simple, inexpensive, nice to look at. Con's no extra features, manual all the way. You had to change the belt position to change the speed from 33 to 45.

George Grand · February 2004

I agree whole-heartedly. The AR is an outstanding performer, and can be found (with a little perserverance) sometimes for next to nothing.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

newtoeverything · February 2004

hmmm, I've been looking around some more and it seems those AR TT's don't come cheap. The cheapest I found on ebay was running around $125US and the highest right now is going for well over $300. Is that relatively cheap for that brand or is it because they're in high demand? People would probably laugh but I just dont know whats a good price for any of these brands and I dont want to get ripped off.

There's just like a ton of different ideas out there for turntables, I hope I dont make a bad decision. I am impressed with the amount of information on Dual TT's so I've been searching around for those a bit more, Thorens seem a little pricey, it seems everyone on ebay just goes nuts with those so I dont really think I would be finding any sort of real good deal on that although I've read up on them and they do have excellent specs. I would like to find one with a 45 adapter as well, I find that a lot of turntables being sold don't have those. Is it like a real bonus to actually find those included?

Tour2ma: I'll be sure to write you a PM when I finally do make a decision on what to get. Any help is always appreciated.

PolkWannabie · February 2004

Here's a list of AR TT's with new and average used prices ...

Turntables Yr Retail Used avg
AR-77xb 72 $150.00 $70.00
AR original 64 $80.00 $40.00
AR tbl 2speed 64 $90.00 $60.00
AR-XA91 72 $185.00 $90.00
AR-XAB 72 $120.00 $80.00
AR-Xau 72 $135.00 $90.00
AR-XB 72 $145.00 $70.00
AR-XB91 72 $200.00 $80.00
EB-101 belt, 33, 45 85 $500.00 $200.00
ES-1 belt, 33, 45, 19 lbs 86 $725.00 $300.00
ETL-1 belt, 33, 45 85 $700.00 $260.00
The AR tbl without arm 82 $325.00 $130.00
The AR tbl-arm belt, 33, 45, with arm 82 $450.00 $170.00
XA 72 $120.00 $120.00
XB 70 $130.00 $110.00

bikezappa · February 2004

**** A list of TT's by AR!!!

How do you get lists like that?

Tour2ma · February 2004

List is out of Orion Blue Book...

nte,
As I said AR TT's are hot right now. The ones you are siting include a virtually NOS one in its original box at $300+, and an over priced one at $125. Same guy has an XB opening at $140 or so. He's just jumping on the bandwagon.

You are going to pay $100 to $150 for a nice, ready to run one on ebay. Right now the higher end is the rule. Ones over $150 generally have some extra something included, e.g., original accessories or a NOS cartridge. Several other XA's have recently gone for under $100, but they are not ready run.

George was pointing out that ebay is not the only source for these TT's. Pawn shops, garage sales, etc. turn up the real AR bargains and TT bargains in general.

newtoeverything · February 2004

yeaaa, real nice list. I'm gonna be checkin them all out! Thanks!

Yea I never thought of checking out thrift shops. The TT's I have seen at a few thrift shops dont look in great condition for the most part or a brand name I havent heard of. Is there any good way of testing TT's at say a thrift shop other than just seeing if the table turns and thats about it?

PS What does NOS stand for?

PolkWannabie · February 2004

BikeZappa,

If you are a member of Audiogon you can get at average used prices for almost anything.

Best Regards, PW

Tour2ma · February 2004

Motor runs quietly.

Platter turns "freely" with no noise.

Tone arm moves freely (note may not on some multi players due to mechanism).

Last bit that you can't really check without playing something is the continuitiy of the tone arm leads. This is even a greater concern with AR's as a section of the lead is exposed at the rear of the arm.

NOS = new old stock, i.e., unused

newtoeverything · February 2004

hi again, hopefully i'm not asking too too many questions.

just wondering how much headshell's usually cost for turntables and are the interchanging. like i found a Dual CS2110 for $10 but it needs a headmount and cartridge. i looked it up on that Dual site and it says it needs a Dual DMS245 cartridge. but am i able to buy a different headshell like a stanton? And how hard is it to replace them etc etc? Thanks again. . .

PS Do I necessarily need that cartridge as well? Is the CS2110 a good quality turntable anyone know?

George Grand · February 2004

My point exactly with the AR's was the availability at yard sales, flea markets, thrift shops and such. The last two AR-XA's that I bought, were at yard sale and flea market. I paid $20 for one and $6 for the other, both in working condition.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

Tour2ma · February 2004

http://compassnet.com/concept/tables/cs2110.htm

I think the 2110 is a P-mount cartridge model. Pluses are that they are easier to set up (virtual plug and play). Downside is that they limit your choice on replacement cartridges, quite possibly to that one. Check on its availability.

Spec's are comparable to the 1229. For $10, if it's pretty clean and working and a replacement cartridge is available at a decent price, it's fine to get you going.

One side note, don't get in a hurry. You'll pay too much for too little.

newtoeverything · February 2004

hmmm good point. I think I'll take ur advice and hold on for something better to come along. like i said, there's just so many good options out there and I'm just terrible at making decisions. hehe. i'll keep looking. . .thanks!

Tour2ma · February 2004

That's the smart thing to do... and who knows you may even wait long enough for me to get off my **** and refurbish one or more of the XA's I've glommed onto in the past year.

okbrewer · February 2004

I was in the same situation a coupla weeks ago, alot of old LPs and no turntable! Last decent TT I owned was a Dual 1237, but that is long gone. I did some scouring of websites and pawn shops and ebay, and eventually found what I think is a fairly good TT at a decent price on buy.com. The Audio Technica AT PL120 is selling for $219.98 plus shipping. It has a built in pre-amp and includes an OK cartridge for outta the box play! It was easy to setup and seems to work fine on my old jazz albums. It may not be the best but it is solidly made, seems to have a good tone arm and fit the bill for me. Check it out!

HBombToo · February 2004

Originally posted by Tour2ma
That's the smart thing to do... and who knows you may even wait long enough for me to get off my **** and refurbish one or more of the XA's I've glommed onto in the past year.

I thought I was in line bro???

HBomb

Tour2ma · February 2004

You are currently a line of one, my friend...

newtoeverything · February 2004

wow. if you were to fix those up can you guesstimate as to how much you think you would sell 'em for? I've been saving for something good quality and if it's within a good price range i'd be interested definately!

Thanks for the tip on the audio technica but at 220US for it I would be ending up spending well near $300CDN which unfortunately is a little over my price range (and not to mention what they might charge for shipping). I appreciate the tip. If I could find some place in Canada that had a similar price that would be good.

Please keep on suggesting though. . .this is actually exciting for me to look through all the options out there. Especially with so many vinyls here waiting to be played I can't wait to get going with this hobby. I appreciate everything! Thanks again! I'm still on the hunt! I'll probably be looking around at some pawn shops next. Hopefully I come across something good.

section19 · February 2004

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Onk's have it as well ...

Only when you start getting into the higher up models (701 and up). The 501 and 601 do not have phono inputs.

Denon is the only brand (that I know of) that offer's a phono input in all their models.

newtoeverything · February 2004

me again, just wondering if anyone knows anything about Marantz TT's. I found a Marantz model 6200 turntable in a pawnshop for $30. It doesn't come with a headshell or a dustcover (do they even come with dustcovers?). So I would have to pay out some money for that but I thought it looked like a good deal and was it good shape. I plugged it in and it ran smooth without any noticable sounds. So I just thought I'd ask because I know Marantz as a good quality name but never really heard of their TT's so if anyone can give me some info that would great.

Thanks again!

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/6200.html

VE6OHV · February 2004

You know I never knew that there were this many TT's around till I started looking. Everything that I have found localy has been awfuly beat-up (with the exception of the Oracle Delphi that I found). So I started looking on E-bay - Just picked up this unit :

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075691864&category=48649&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1

Tho - I can't seem to find any info about this model I hope it is a nice piece. So far it is looking like E-bay is the best bet for us Canadians. Be careful of the pawn shop stuff - I almost bought an older pioneer untill I found out that it needs an odd ball stylus that would have cost 4x what I would have paid for the TT itself.

Tour2ma · February 2004

Here's a thread on the Marantz over at AudioKarma...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11176&highlight=marantz+6200

hljones821 · February 2004

Technics make a belt drive turntable called SL-BD22, I have one that is 12 yrs old, decent entry level turntable. I still see them for sale in the $100 range, new.

newtoeverything · February 2004

Just wondering what the word is on a Dual 1264 TT. I grabbed one off of ebay for $40 + shipping. It just seems weird that no one really went after this one.
I looked on the Dual turntable website http://compassnet.com/concept/tables/1264.htm and it is a nearly $300 turntable brand new. Is it possible that I just lucked out with no one bidding or do you think I might of run into a bit of a lemon. Anyone have any ideas?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3080291549&ssPageName=ADME:B:BN:CA:1