Cart suggestions for the old Denon tt in the $150 or less range

muncybob

So I am in the process of obtaining a preamp to once again get back into 2 channel and vinyl. The only TT I have is my old Denon DP-1200 and for the life of me I cannot find the Shure cartridge from years ago. It was probably not in the best condition anyways so now I'm looking for a replacement. Should I buy new or used? The preamp I'm looking at will do both mm and mc. Any suggestions on what and from whom to buy?

dkg999

I'm not sure what carts are compliant with that tone arm, however for reasonably priced carts I have an Ortofon 2M Blue on my Music Hall MMF 5.1 and I really like the cart.

dromunds

Denon DL 110 would be another good choice, you can pick low hour ones up used very reasonably, I thought there was one for sale just recently on the for sale forum, some also like the AT 440MLa. The Shure M97xe new has dropped way down in price and is also liked by many, but you have to check what's compatible with your arm. If you find your old Shure cart you may want to check out the SAS styluses, which purportedly take them to a new level, although not cheap. The cart itself may very well be okay and you MAY have an excellent vintage Shure cartridge that just needs a stylus.

dromunds

I should add the Denon DL 110 is a high output MC cart but you'd set MM on the preamp.

Erik Tracy

While the DL-110 was my first thought as well, not sure that it will mate well with the DP-1200 arm.

The DL-110 at 4.5g is just under the minimum 5g of the DP-1200 arm.

Dawgfish

Since your phono preamp is capatable with MC cartridges if your DP-1200 has the S shaped tonearm I would go with a Denon DL-103 or used 103R. The dynamics, slam, warmth, and cohesiveness of these carts are outstanding. The other thing is you can later do the wood or metal body modification to these carts as budget permits (60-175 dollar mod depending on which body and if you do the mod yourself or have someone do it for you) and have a cartridge that competes with carts in the $1000-2000 range!. I have four 103 series carts with wood and metal bodies and absolutely love them. If you dont want to go the low output moving coil route, I would go with a used Grado Reference Platinum. There's one on Audiogon right now going for $150 from GRG Audio out of Los Angeles. I have bought several carts from them in the past and they are excellent to deal with.

muncybob

OK, dumb question now...how do I know what carts mate with my arm?

muncybob

Well I found the old cart. I thought it was a Shure V15 Type IV cart but all the images I've found on the net show the Type IV plainly visible front the front. The body of this cart is all black except the top has a gray piece and a silver V on the front. What are the numbers 109942? I'll need a stylus. The cart is probably 30+ years old...is it worth getting a stylus(if I can even get one)?

dromunds

My V15 Type IV has that written on the front and the V15 Type III has that written on the side.

dromunds

Is that a V15 Type V-mr?

TNHNDYMAN

That's a very nice cart worth the price of buying a stylus for it.

dromunds

But, wouldn't the V15 Type V-MR also say that on the side? Not sure about that, what does yours say on the side? If it is a V15 Type V-MR, it was TOTL when it came out I believe. There appears to be one on audio asylum trader for $225 with a Jico stylus. The cart itself w/o stylus is worth some jing.

muncybob

There is nothing on either side, totally black cart other than where the V is on the top front and the numbers area in the pic.

muncybob

I don't know what ever happened to the needle and I guess it's very expensive to have retipped. Only thought of that due to the beryllium cantilever, which I believe is what this has based on memory. Looks like $100 for new Ed Sauders replacement. I found a new DL-110 for $87...what would you do?

dromunds

I never had a Type V, just many III's and a IV. Not sure about the Ed Saunders stylus, seems I've read differing reviews of those, I'd research that more. I've always heard the Jico SAS is a real nice stylus, but its pricey. People say the SAS takes the V15's to a new level though. I'd for sure do more research to make sure which version you have, as the styluses will not necessarily interchange between different versions of the Type V. Regardless, that Type V was supposed to be a real good cart. If you had a V15 on your tonearm and you liked it maybe you'd like the M97xE which is about the same price new as the Denon 110 at around $85-ish, lots of guys on this forum speak well of it, and Eric Tracy pointed out the Denon may not mate with your arm. I'd also check out the Grado Reference Platinum that Dawgfish pointed out and see if that will match with your arm.

muncybob

My tt arm is not straight and I'm still unsure of what is meant by matching the cart to the arm?

dromunds

Can you post a photo of your cart from the side as well? Try googling something like, matching cartridge with turntable tonearm, and you should get some stuff to read on matching carts to arms. Other guys hopefully will chime in as well here. I checked and it looks like B&H Photo is selling the Shure M97xE for $69 new. That's really reasonable, they've really come down in price. It also looks like its 5.6g so it should work with your arm unless I'm missing something, plus as I understand it they are made to "excuse" compliance issues to some extent. You could always check with the seller to make sure it would match your arm. Also look at the archives for polkies who have posted on the M97xE cart. If you don't want to spend $150 now I'd consider looking into that cart and then keep researching your existing cart because if that check out good it's a real nice cart that would be probably worthy of a Jico SAS stylus down the road. Don't forget you have to align a cart when you put it on the arm. There are threads on the various adjustments when installing a new cart.

dromunds

You should be able to slide the front of your cartridge out, which is the the stylus assembly. You should be able to gently slide it right out of the front of the cartridge, together with the stylus guard. Is there a part number on it? Its not 109942, not sure what that is maybe the serial number?

muncybob

I have pulled the stylus assembly out and no other markings. Will try and get pics up soon. Did find online the Shure owners manual for the V15 type V and my cart looks just like that one on the manual, just not sure if other carts looked like that or not.

Dawgfish

muncybob wrote: »

My tt arm is not straight and I'm still unsure of what is meant by matching the cart to the arm?

Different arms from different manufacturer's have different masses. Different cartridges have different compliances and by this what we are essentially talking about is the stiffness of the cartridge cantilever and suspension. Cartridges with low compliance (such as most of the Denon Dl-103 series of carts) have relatively stiff cantilevers and suspensions and need heavier arms to get their best performances. Cartridges with higher compliances (such as Grados) have cantilever/suspension assemblies that are not as stiff and bend easier. These cartridges mate well with lower mass tonearms. There are factors such as headshell weight and cartridge weight that play into it, but that is essentially the concept in a nut shell. I would check out the Vinyl Engine site. There you can find all sorts of valuable info such as specs on your specific table, a cartridge to tonearm matching calculation tool, and cartridge alignment protractor downloads which will be very valuable and pertinent to the questions you are asking now. Check out that site and it will give you much more info than I can give you here.

BTW, if I were in your shoes I would definitely find out what version V-15 you have and get a new stylus for that. That will be your easiest fix (no new cartridge mounting and alignment, simply change the stylus) and you will have a great cart. The Jelco SAS replacement styluses that the others have mentioned are definitely the way to go if you have a Type 3 and later V-15. The Vinyl Engine site I mentioned earlier will give you all the info you need for this. If you decide to get a new stylus for it, I would check out this site www.lpgear.com. If you decide to go with a new cart all together, since your Denon has the S shaped arm which is heavier than the straight arm, I would strongly consider the DL-103 or 103R.

muncybob

Thanks everybody, I have certainly learned a lot in the last few days. I've aleady had the cart off the headshell looking for any markings to help ID it and I doubt that it was ever mounted properly to begin with. Makes me wonder if I've already done a lot of damage to my vinyl.

muncybob

A couple more pics of the mystery cart. Sending an email to Shure customer service for help. Just want to be positive I'm ordering the right stylus for it.

markmarc

dawgfish wrote: »

since your phono preamp is capatable with mc cartridges if your dp-1200 has the s shaped tonearm i would go with a denon dl-103 or used 103r. The dynamics, slam, warmth, and cohesiveness of these carts are outstanding. The other thing is you can later do the wood or metal body modification to these carts as budget permits (60-175 dollar mod depending on which body and if you do the mod yourself or have someone do it for you) and have a cartridge that competes with carts in the $1000-2000 range!. I have four 103 series carts with wood and metal bodies and absolutely love them. If you dont want to go the low output moving coil route, i would go with a used grado reference platinum. There's one on audiogon right now going for $150 from grg audio out of los angeles. I have bought several carts from them in the past and they are excellent to deal with.

bingo!

muncybob

Still in limbo on this. I did finally get a DAC and we are enjoying some of the better sounding cd's in our collection. With some $$ due us from the IRS I think the cart is about to happen finally. Shure was not much help in identifying my cart but with some images on a Google search and looking at one on the Gon for sale right now I'm thinking I have the MR cart. Looks like I can either pay for a new stylus or get a DL-103 or possibly 103R for around the cost of the Shure stylus. I've read some really good things about the 103R but something I read says the phono stage needs a minimum of 60db gain...not sure if my Rotel RC-990BX has this as it's not a spec in the manual.

I now realize that for years I wasas playing lp's with a cart that was not properly installed...I sure hope I have not ruined my records!