polk rti 150

Snoopdog

Well, I'm chomping at the bit to start experimenting with these guys.

The Elite is new for me too (recently replaced an Onkyo unit) and so far I'm very impressed with it. Fantastic processing, plus the MCACC auto-calibration feature is just a gas.

I'm hoping I can get good results without investing in separate power amp(s). We will see.

88forthecup

Is there any other reciever with the rear channels that can bi-amp the front rti 150's. If not will buy that Pioneer Elite 53. Abe's of Maine, $692.00 including shipping, to bi-amp front rti 150's. Thanks for the idea.

Airplay355

marantz has a multi room feature that allows you to use the surround channels to power another set of speakers with the same or completely different source. maybe that would work?

Snoopdog

My 53 is set up similar to the Marantz mentioned above. Instead of using the 2 back surround channels for 7.1, you set them as a 2nd room set of speakers, but have them play the same as the fronts.

I've discovered a drawback to that arrangement, though. According to my manual, it will not work with multichannel sources like SACD and DVD-A. If you're not planning on using the multichannel analog inputs - it might be a good option.

My rt150is arrive tomorrow. I'll be experimenting soon.

I recommend the Elite 53 as one of the best "bang for the buck" AVRs out there. It is really an exceptional unit.

Snoopdog

Here's the update. Installed my new rti150s today. Moved the rt55is from the front channels to the surrounds (retiring my Imperial Vs). I've been breaking them in at low levels for about 4 hours.

I have them hooked up to the Elite 53tx as normal Front channels, no bi-amp.

I haven't run them at reference levels yet. But, at -10db, these bad boys ROCK! I ran the MCACC auto cal, then put the Peter Gabriel "Growing Up" concert DVD into play. Let me just say this,
Mercy Street has NEVER sounded better. Absolutely fan effin tastic!

Next step is to see how they do with SACD.

walk

I got my 150s for $500/pr

I compared them to the RTi70 (in Circuit City) the 70s definitely had more treble. Almost too much. If you are used to metal or "harsh" type tweeters the silk will probably sound a lot more smooth but I think you'll grow to like it. I've been using silk/dome type tweeters for almost 10 years and whenever I listen to a speakers with metal tweets (or ugh, Klipsch horns) they sound way too bright and tinny to me.

You can always turn up the treble control also.

Airplay355

theres another problem with the multiroom function, you would have to turn the volume down in the settings of the receiver. changing the volume would be a pain in the butt, big time

Snoopdog

$500/pr is a great price. I paid $600 from Crutchfield. They were advertised at $799, and if you bought over $400 worth of Polks you got a free $200 sub. I asked them if they would keep the sub and give me $200 off the 150s. They said sure - so I bought 'em. I wanted something that would match well with my 55s, and these are just what the doctor ordered.

I don't think I'll need another amp. My Elite seems fine so far. I don't run it at reference level very often, living in a townhome. I have an end unit so share only one wall, and the neighbor doesn't seem to go out nearly often enough for me.

88forthecup

I am waiting for my new Pioneer 53 to come. I hooked up my rti 150's to my old Technics stereo reciever to hear the difference in sound. The sound is worlds better. My Sony is rated at the same power but plays lower. The bass is much better with the sony but no highs. Also, does anyone know if a DVD player will give decent sound quality to play CDs or would a cd changer give better sound quality?

disneyjoe7

Great too hear:p

150's are hard on any amp so some AVR can’t handle the mustard. Can't wait to hear these babies my self, lets see if an Onkyo 898 can lite them up a little. I think in the future an add on amp will do a better job, but for now.....

redwine

My first post...ok with that out of the way, my RTi 150's are 2 months old I have them paired with the Harman Kardon AVR 7200. At times I cringe at the highs...I like loud music but shocking highs is not what I anticipated. I don't know how the highs could be higher that would really hurt...I'll get used to it. The RTi150 are great speaker I moved my RTi 100's to the back.

As for power I had a new Onkyo 801 and returned it for being week, the HK 7200 destroys (100x7 all ch driven) I run at -10 to -5 that's all I can handle. I find the HK is honestly rated and make the 150's really kick ($799 at frys). If you go to frys see if they have any more RTi 150 I got mine new at $200 each.

Tour2ma

rw,

Welcome to the Club...

Be sure those highs are not indicators of clipping onset.

redwine

Tour2ma,

I have herd talk of clipping woofers but tweeters? The HK AVR 7200 puts out 142 watts @ (1kHz) five channels driven (8ohms) per Sound & Vision. Are the RTi's so power hungry due to the (3) 6 ½ woofers that I am running out of power? I have them set to full perhaps small with 80 or 60 or 40Hz cross would be a better choice. Could it be time to amp shop to run the woofers :-)
Any amp suggestion?

Thanks,

PolkWannabie

It's the amp that has the potential for clipping and imho if it does will most likely have the biggest impact on the tweeters.

The HK AVR 7200 puts out 100 wpc all channels driven across the 20hz 20khz range or in other words the same specs as the Onkyo 801. Whether or not the Onkyo or HK spec's are accurate is another story.

Tour2ma

rw,

Anytime an amp clips due to insufficient power to complete the waveform it is being asked to produce, the tweeter(s) suffer the consequences. Helps to think of clipping as your amp generating an ultra-sonic scream.

The scream, on the order of 100 kHz, is routed to your tweets and the poor fellas try to reproduce it. In doing so more heat than normal is generated. If the screaming continues long enough (you're exceeding the amp's continuous output capability) and/ or ocurs often enough (clipping a series of transients), the heat builds up until the tweets "fry".

Clipping can occur without detection or it can be accompanied by audible distortion in the upper frequencies. What you described in your intial post sounded to me like the latter.

Yes, more power can be a solution, but so can turning the existing down a notch (or two).

Snoopdog

Maybe I don't understand clipping - but I thought it occurs when the amp is driving (or attempting to) beyond it's rated power, so the THD goes way up.

Why would his 7200 clip @ -10 to -5? Is his input too hot? I understand the 150s will take all the 7200 has to offer and then some without breaking a sweat, but I would think he'd have to turn it way up to get to that point.

I've run my Elite 53tx @ 0 with SACD and DVD-A sources without any clipping issues. It sounds fantastic - loud, yes - but really crystal clear. In particular, Elton John's Goodbye Yellowbrick Road and Roxy Music's Avalon sound stunning.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by Snoopdog
Maybe I don't understand clipping - but I thought it occurs when the amp is driving (or attempting to) beyond it's rated power, so the THD goes way up.

Yes. There is insuficient power to complete the waveform peak so the top is "clipped" off and turning it into a flat topped, pseudo square wave. The distortion is the ultrasonic "scream" as I characterize it.

Why would his 7200 clip @ -10 to -5? Is his input too hot? I've run my Elite 53tx @ 0 with SACD and DVD-A sources without any clipping issues.

First not all "zero" dB Master Volume levels are equal. It depends what you calibrated your system to.

Again while -10 or -5 could be a safe continuoius setting, the dynamics in music can be such that the amp for one or more channels are clipped on these transients.

88forthecup

Would anyone tell me if Bose double cube speakers would be any good to use with my Polk other speakers for rear surround. I think the polks are too big for my surrounds.

PolkWannabie

Too Big ? ... Low WAF ?

RVJII

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
From my personal experience with the RTi12's...is that they'll definitely use all you give them.

The listenings I've done in my own set up now are with

- 100 wpc Onkyo receiver
- 200 wpc Sunfire Cinema Grand
- 425 wpc Sunfire CG Sig II
- Dual 425 wpc Sunfire CG Sig II's to bi-amp

Not to hijack this thread but PolkWannabie got me thinking. As you can see I am running RTi12's with 2 Outlaw M-Blocks (200 @ 8 Ohms). Anyway, I'm now wondering if it is worthwhile to invest another $600 in two more M-Blocks and run in a bi-amp configuration that would net me 400 watts to each. How big a difference did you notice in the jump from 200 to 425? Also, since I am running monoblocks with independent power supplies do you think that I would notice less of a difference?

So much equipment...never enough money.

Snoopdog

Well guys, I shut down the Elite 53 tonight.

Warmed her up for about 60 min. with a couple cuts from the Crowded House DVD-A and the entire Harvest DVD-A from Neil Young. Harvest has most of the low freq. going to the .1 channel, so the sub amp was busy. Ran Harvest at +5db. btw, it sounded great!

Then I dropped Natalie Merchant's "Tigerlily" DVD-A into the Pioneer 563a. Tigerlily is mixed with full range going to all channels. The 150s were DANCING! I really like these spkrs!! But about 30 sec. into "Carnival" the Elite said ENOUGH!

Yep. She was hot. The 150s were dancing, for a bit.

Looks like I'm going to invest in a Crest or Carvin pro audio power amp to drive the 150s.

I do want to say though, that I played two CDs (Brother's in Arms and Tom Petty's latest) in 5.1 mode at -5db after the 53 was hot with no problems at all. The Pioneer amp is excellent - but the 150s just plain love power.

Airplay355

i did that with my marantz a few times, and just like you it didnt happen till about -5db depending on the recording volume. but **** -5db is plenty loud lol, i hardly go up there now with my i70s.

madoka

Originally posted by Snoopdog

Then I dropped Natalie Merchant's "Tigerlily" DVD-A into the Pioneer 563a. Tigerlily is mixed with full range going to all channels. The 150s were DANCING! I really like these spkrs!! But about 30 sec. into "Carnival" the Elite said ENOUGH!

Yep. She was hot. The 150s were dancing, for a bit.

Good Lord Snoopdog, what volume were you at?

I've finally finished 95% of my installation and was going to post that I didn't have any clipping problems with my setup:

Rti150 as mains
Four RM7600 satellites for surround
RM4600 Center
PSW650 Sub
Pio Elite 53tx
200 ft of Monster XP cable with Monster Cable Quick Lock connectors

All the speakers were set to small and the sub output to yes.

I've tried a few regular cds and a handful of DVDs including DTS 6.1 (LOTR TT). So far, no problems with clipping even at volumes that are near painful. I dunno if they would sound better with more power but I'm pretty satisfied with what I've got so far.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by madoka
All the speakers were set to small and the sub output to yes.

More than likely a major factor here.... that and a few dB...

aba4430

Snoopdog,
My Elite (VSX-47TX; 130 X 7 @8ohms) requires ~8" of headroom over the receiver for ventilation purposes. It is for this reason, I have it sitting on top of my entertainment center. I do not know what the 53TX manual recommends, but these units do generate some serious heat. My 47 TX gets hots, but has never blinked an eye even during hours and hours of playing (patio listening while doing yardword, music indoors, movies etc. during a week-end for example). Of course with kids etc., I have to obey common rules and normally indoors will not play below -10db on the level and such. I have the 70's, but the efficiency is 1 db worse than the 150's, the recommended amplifier rating is 20 - 250 vs. 50 - 500 wpc respectively. I guess, it is here (min 20 vs. min 50 watts) where the fuzzy wpc rating system that manufacturers use to rate the equipment output messes everything up and leads to a huge difference in the receivers performance linked with 150's and the 70's. Pioneer in their Elites (I am uncertain about their regular line), I believe uses a "true" power rating (all channels driven or something). See the following knowledge base articles on the Pioneer web site.
http://208.220.235.52:7001/eSupportJSP/SolutionShow.jsp?solution_id=F12590
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/Files/14022.pdf
One is an FYI, one perhaps more relevant.
Regards,
aba

PolkWannabie

RVJII,

You are not going to notice a difference in loudness per se or at least not much. The difference that you notice between one level of amplification and the next is that what comes out is more effortless if you will and the louder you play it the more you'll notice it. I don't play it loud enough to really make use of the second Sunfire so that will probably come out since it's a loaner any way. So I will probably revert to using the receiver to drive the rears or add a Sunfire Stereo Sig to drive the mains. I'm still toying with equipment and ideas.

Snoopdog

I didn't notice any clipping or distortion. The Natalie Merchant recording is mixed at a high level (compared to other DVD-As) and has a large dynamic range. At the point the 53 shut down, I'd been running it LOUD (0 to +8) for about 1.5 hours.

I played regular CDs at -5 to 0 shortly afterwards, for another hour or so with no problems.

On DVD-A and SACD I'm running all the spkrs. large. When using the digital input (for video DVD and CD) I'm running the center and surrounds at small.

I could definately give the unit better ventilation, as currently there is only about a 1.5 inch gap between the 53 and the shelf above.

It's the first time I've been able to see what my new set up can do. I'm impressed!


Elite 53tx
RTi150 - front
CS245 - center
RT55i - surrounds
JBL PB 12 - sub (with new amp)
Pioneer 563a DVD/SACD/DVD-A
JVC FA90B - 7 disc changer (DVD video/CD)
Mits 55819

88forthecup

i just got started hooking up my Pioneer 53 Elite, raved by this thread. Sound is awesome. My original problem with lack of highs is history. This sound is the best audio I ever heard. I know the RTI 150 could use more power but, will it just play louder or sound better? This receiver can use the rear channels of 7.1 to bi-amp speakers, good idea or no?

disneyjoe7

Play louder, I say yes:p

I have the same speakers now, replaced my rt800i with these speakers. My rt800i replaced my rear speakers rt600i. But I think that RTi150 need like 150watt or better, 250 watts I think would be great.

Snoopdog

88:

I wouldn't bother with trying the bi-amp set up until after you have checked it out in normal mode.

Play around with the settings, MCACC, etc. and listen to various movies/music and see what you think. My guess is you will be very pleased with the 53 without trying bi-amping or adding additonal external amps. For movies, I really don't think you need anything extra.

The rti150s are beasts however. I bought a 500 watt/channel Crest pro audio amp and have it running my 150s. The 53 handles the center, surrounds and rear surrounds. I really can't hear any difference at normal listening levels. Even at reference level (0 on the volume) I can't hear any difference, but the 53 does run much cooler.

Where the extra amp shines though is at really really really LOUD levels (+5 to +10.) The 150s are just darn amazing. Get too close at that volume and these boys will bloody your NOSE! Talk about sound you can feel. I actually got my Crest amp to clip into those suckers. THEY ARE BEASTS! We're talking sound levels that rival a live band in a small bar with low ceilings. Know what I mean?

I will only play at that level on very rare occasions, and for probably only one or two songs at a time. I'm waiting for Neil Young to release Zuma on DVD-A. Cortez the Killer at +10, yeah!