Thoughts?

PycroftPycroft Posts: 1,957
edited March 2014 in Going Digital
Today, I can go to the library and borrow CD's, rip them, and keep them in my file library - similar to how when I was young, I could borrow a cassette tape, and make a copy of it for myself.

Now that digital music is big, is it acceptable to share your libraries with people, or is this considered like downloading files on a bittorrent program - which I don't do.

James
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Post edited by Pycroft on

Comments

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,297
    edited March 2014
    The RIAA considers copying material for anything other than personal use to be theft, and the courts have upheld that position repeatedly. When you copied stuff from the library, that too is considered theft. That said, I think the RIAA has way too much power, and has been overzealous in their pursuit of copyright fraud/theft. They spend more time and money going after 15 year old kids and college students than after the chinese, who would steal anything from anyone just to make a buck....
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  • PycroftPycroft Posts: 1,957
    edited March 2014
    Is personal use the only criteria? I have ripped discs from the library for my personal use, not for benefit, or to charge to listen, etc. etc. This may be a slippery slope :) Looks like I may stop doing it (Not that I've done it in the last 10 years :)

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
  • teekay0007teekay0007 Posts: 2,152
    edited March 2014
    Pycroft wrote: »
    Looks like I may stop doing it (Not that I've done it in the last 10 years :)

    James

    Don't you mean in maybe the last 7 years (ie. the standard statute of limitations)? ;-)
  • PycroftPycroft Posts: 1,957
    edited March 2014
    Nah - 10 years. I went to a music college with an amazing classical music library - I took full advantage. Hey - I paid 35k a year in 1997 - 2001 - I figure they owed me :)

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
  • PolkieManPolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited March 2014
    No your not suppose to copy CD that you do not own

    Copying CDs

    It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
    It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.
    Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:

    http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law

    The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
    The copy is just for your personal use.
    It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.
    The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
    Remember, it’s never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.
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  • PycroftPycroft Posts: 1,957
    edited March 2014
    Thanks - That answers the question :)

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
  • StantonZStantonZ Posts: 393
    edited March 2014
    I commend you (Pycroft) for having a conscience; most wouldn't even ask the question (although most know the answer).

    With many friends in the music business, I'm a big supporter (defender?) of copyright infringement. Personally, I don't keep any "rips" of CD/DVDs/etc that I don't own, but I also am a staunch defender of the ability to do so. Case in point: I almost never play an import album or CD without taping/ripping it first in case it becomes damaged beyond repair. I think we should have the right to compile "soft" libraries (like FLACs/MP3s) of music we OWN, but I also think we have a responsibility not to give/sell those copies away, which ultimately impacts the artist's ability to make $$ (and more art)!
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  • seabeerob213seabeerob213 Posts: 1,753
    edited March 2014
    i get a hard time left and right for actually buying cd's in this day and age, and watching programs on tv or buying the blu ray release, instead of downloading. i see so many people do it, even so bold as to put on the base community page as to where the best sites are for doing it. i dont think people realize the gravity of commiting a felony when the federal government signs their paycheck and owns their residence.
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    THE IMPOSSIBLE TAKES A BIT LONGER
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  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited March 2014
    This has been common knowledge for decades. Any copying of something "you" don't own is an infraction and you don't even need to think about it, it's obvious.

    That said. Until recently, these laws have often benefited big music labels and companies rather than the artists themselves and have helped create a system where you're either a Superstar or just barely making a living as a musician. Hopefully a lot of the new technology which is allowing more artists to free themselves from the big boys and do direct distribution will allow more and more really talented people to rip this STAR model of music to shreds and provide more opportunity and income for more and more independent musicians and groups. That's the model I support and have no problem buying their CDs or downloads. I believe the same thing should happen in other arts as well. Screw the Bestseller list!

    It's a shame to waste such "talent", to see it waiting tables in major cities and eeking out a gig or two on the side.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,998
    edited March 2014
    The ethical answer is Yes, it is stealing to share your digital library. However, it's a bit of a gray area; so would this mean if I gave you all my albums, I am ethically wrong? I think the distinction is, are you profiting from it---and not necessarily monetarily. If you gave me your hard drive stuffed with 1000 CD's worth of flac files, have you done something ethically wrong? What if you made a copy first, then gave me the hard drive. What if you sold me the hard drive?

    It's complex. I would think, if you're wanting to be ethically "true" giving your music away, while not keeping a copy would pass "Richie Cunningham" ethics.

    All of this of course, assumes you got the material in an ethical manner to begin with (purchased or was given to you by someone who purchased it).

    What "other" people do should NEVER factor into an ethical answer. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 91
    edited March 2014
    He has CD's at his library still? :surprised:
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  • Jimbo18Jimbo18 Posts: 2,161
    edited March 2014
    Back in the early '70s when I owned a reel-to-reel and vinyl, I would pretty much always record my albums right away. So did the other guys around me and then we traded albums to record each others music. I don't remember ever being told back then that this was not acceptable or was illegal in any way. I am not saying it wasn't, but I never read an article about it or heard about it on the radio or TV. I never once thought that I was doing something I shouldn't.

    I know it's wrong today and the reasons are obvious, but back then we never considered that we were doing something unethical or illegal. We were just making sure we had a good copy of the album before it got scratched and also making it easier to play several albums back-to-back since we could get more than one on each reel. And sharing music that we liked with others.
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  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,998
    edited March 2014
    I think all the stink about copyright started happening when the PC arrived, and vinyl/CD sales began to drop off significantly. I think the vast majority of us copied our buddies albums, cassette tapes, etc.
  • seabeerob213seabeerob213 Posts: 1,753
    edited March 2014
    here is a facebbok thread im currently following, im robby joe, last names have been removed, and sorry its copied and pasted, i love the responses i have got


    Charles' N' Crystal -who watches walking dead and what site does everyone use for out here?

    Like · · about an hour ago near Catania

    ..Ashley Project free tvabout an hour ago · Like · 3
    ..Jeremy- We do but we purchased the season on iTunes.about an hour ago · Unlike · 2
    ..Sasha- My husband does and we got it thru amazon primeabout an hour ago · Unlike · 2
    ..Stanley Www.megashare.infoabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Charles' N' Crystal i couldnt find it on itunesabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Brittny You can download utorrent and download all the new shows and movies from pirateproxy.seabout an hour ago · Like · 3
    ..Jarah vodly.toabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Brandi Delishows.comabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Daniel thepiratebay.se to downloadabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Daniel If you guys want the episodes, bring in a thumb drive or hard drive into work and I can copy them for youabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Keesha 1channelabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Angela Netflixabout an hour ago · Unlike · 1
    ..Liss Ustv.ccabout an hour ago · Like
    ..HollyAnn Watch-tvseries.netabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Heather Followingabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Cody megashare.infoabout an hour ago · Like
    ..Shannon tubeplus.me58 minutes ago · Like
    ..Cecy Projectfreetv53 minutes ago · Like
    ..Dametries http://www.couchtuner.eu/watch-the-walking-dead-online-1/47 minutes ago · Like
    ..Dawnalee motionempire.com i used it the whole time i was there nd i still use it33 minutes ago · Like
    ..Robby-Joe I'd try hulu or netflix, nothing wrong or complicated at all about doing it legally. Honestly, the things people get bothered aboutand/or reported/blocked for on this board, are rediculous, yet people openly posting about illegally streaming and downloading media goes without criticism. I dont think people here realize, it's a federal crime, as in, the same people who sign your paycheck enforce these laws.25 minutes ago · Like
    ..Dan Except the illegal part where you have to use a vpn to use Netflix outside the US.
    Prolly better to just wait for it on AFN, along with all of their other quality programming.13 minutes ago · Like · 1
    ..Dawnalee motionempire isnt downloading. you have to wait for the shows to come on and itll be there the next day. but you have so many options on what you want to use. ive watched all of friends, all of boymeets world, almost done with smallville, game of thrones, pretty little liars, vampire diaries...and so much more. i love it10 minutes ago · Like
    ..Breana Megashare.com8 minutes ago · Like
    ..Robby-Joe if it is streamed, someone downloaded or ripped it, and viewing it is aiding in unlawful distribution. i dont use any of these services at all, if i want it, i buy it on blu-ray8 minutes ago · Like
    ..Dan R GFY Robby-Joe...that's incredibly noble of you.
    I think the Boy Scouts are looking for troop leaders, perhaps you could educate them the way you have educated all of the people on this thread. That'd be swell, dontchathink?!
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    Center: CS13
    surrounds:Polk RTi4( also have some def tech pro Mon. 800s, may end up her or expanding this to 7 channel.)
    TV: samsung 40
    The real 2 Channel(work in progress):
    Pre:HK 3490
    Amp:Parasound 1200 MK II
    Sub:RBH 1010-SEP
    Speakers: Monitor 5A peerless
    Headphones:
    Source: FIIO X3 CD rips WMA lossless
    Amp: FIIO E12, Nuforce icon udcac-2 W/pangea cable
    Cans: Audio-Technica ATH-M50, Velodyne V-True, Grado SR225i
    most of my comments are passing on of info, im a noob, im just trying to help how i can, if im wrong or out of place to comment, dont hesitate to let me know :)

    "WITH WILLING HEARTS AND SKILLFUL HANDS,
    THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE,
    THE IMPOSSIBLE TAKES A BIT LONGER
    WITH COMPASSION FOR OTHERS
    WE BUILD - WE FIGHT FOR PEACE WITH FREEDOM"
    Seabee Memorial, Arlington, VA
  • StantonZStantonZ Posts: 393
    edited March 2014
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I think the vast majority of us copied our buddies albums, cassette tapes, etc.[/QUOTE

    Ummm...no I didn't. You shouldn't make such broad assumptions.
    Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR (5.0.2)
    (4) Polk Monitor 10B's w/SoniCaps, Mills, and RDO-194 tweets (R/L F/R)
    (2) Polk Monitor 4's w/peerless tweets (Top Middle)
    Polk CS300 center channel
    Analog: B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
    Digital: Pioneer CLD-99 Elite LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-Ray
    LG 65EF9500 4K OLED
  • xjghostxjghost Posts: 938
    edited March 2014
    Here is my biggest issue with some of the "copyright" laws pertaining to music. I have a small album collection and a small cd collection. Most of my albums are not on CD. When CD's came out I bought into them and stopped buying albums. I could not buy both. FF to today with iTunes and iPod's. I want my albums on my iPod for when I travel. I don't have the ability to transfer them. I wish I could get a digital copy of them all but they will not let me. They also say if I "borrow" a cd you own of an album I own to rip to my iPod its a "copyright violation!" This is one reason why I love the new artist having albums with CD's or digital downloads in them.
    HT/2Channel: Emotiva MMC-1, Adcom GFA-555II, Polk SDA 3.1's, Teac TN-300 TT, Polk Center and Sub.

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  • 123dme123dme Posts: 22
    edited March 2014
    I like to use the library to listen and see if I'd want to buy it. Great resource.
  • PycroftPycroft Posts: 1,957
    edited March 2014
    Another question came up. What happens if I own the disc, I bought it originally, but it's scratched and doesn't play. For example, I have Billy Joel's greatest hits on 2 CD's. CD1 is fine, CD2 must have been through a war, and doesn't play or rip well. Can I go to the library and rip it from there, as I own and bought the disc already?

    Thanks,

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited March 2014
    Seems like a question a lawyer would ask. lol

    My local CD/DVD/BR/Game disc store provides a service that buffs out or resurfaces discs that are scratched up. It works on most discs except those that are really toast!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,998
    edited March 2014
    StantonZ wrote: »
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I think the vast majority of us copied our buddies albums, cassette tapes, etc.

    Ummm...no I didn't. You shouldn't make such broad assumptions.

    Your cookie is in the mail Mr. Rogers.
  • FaceFace Posts: 14,714
    edited March 2014
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Your cookie is in the mail Mr. Rogers.
    :cheesygrin:

    Someone doesn't understand the difference between majority and EVERYONE.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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