12 years a slave

tonyb

Saw this....not impressed. Nothing we haven't seen before in any other slave movie which I think I'm about all slaved out. Brad Pitt appearing towards the end to be the good guy and savior....was horrible. He belonged in this movie as much as a spaceship does. Not a movie of the year contender, most performances were mediocre at best. The guy with the best performance was the dude who played the younger Magneto in X-Men....can't remember his name now. All in all, just an ok movie.

BlueMDPicker

tonyb wrote: »

....I think I'm about all slaved out.

Classic! Lol!

Jhayman

Michael Fassenbender

tonyb

Thanks J, that be him. He stole the show in my book and should be up for best supporting actor.

cnh

tonyb wrote: »

Saw this....not impressed. Nothing we haven't seen before in any other slave movie which I think I'm about all slaved out. Brad Pitt appearing towards the end to be the good guy and savior....was horrible. He belonged in this movie as much as a spaceship does. Not a movie of the year contender, most performances were mediocre at best. The guy with the best performance was the dude who played the younger Magneto in X-Men....can't remember his name now. All in all, just an ok movie.

Haven't seen it, saw The Butler on disc over the weekend (another story, there). But I have to disagree with you, Tony. One can "never", should "never" be all slaved out!

You know what, I'm not even going to bother. Just a waste of time to make any point, here!

cnh

tonyb

Relax pal, I'm not trying to diminish the historical aspect....nor it's meaning. Just so many slave movies year after year it gets old. As if that's the only part of history worth hammering home. Most recently we had this movie, 12 years a slave, then the Butler...which was a good movie aside from Oprah. We had Django...also a good flick with stellar performances. We had the Help...though not exactly a slave movie but the same message....again, great movie.

If your coming from the aspect that slavery should never be forgotten, I agree....but to this extent ? Are there not any other important aspects of history we should not forget....sadly missing from movie makers priority lists ?

WLDock

Of course there are those that are sick of slave movies. However, we must teach the younger generation therefore repeat topic movies tend to get made after so many decades. Yes we all know the Africa slave trade story...but here was a free man born in New York who was a skilled worker. He was kidnapped into slavery. Its been 30 years since a movie has been made about it, Solomon Northup’s Odyssey aired in 1984 on PBS. My senior year in HS, first year in college. All I remember about the movie is actor Avery Brooks and his character trying to escape the plantation. So just maybe its not a bad thing to redo the story for us older folks as well as the later generation...not a bad thing at all.

drumminman

Thought 12 years was an amazing movie. The plantation scenes and the degradation, punishments, demeaning attitudes appeared "normal", almost mundane as practiced by the slaveholders. Justification for this barbaric treatment often came from quoted scripture. Michael Fassbinder and the woman who played his wife gave outstanding performances, as did the woman who played Patsy. Slavery was such an evil institution, it degraded the owners almost as much as the slaves.

Timothy Smith

I do plan to see this movie, but maybe we should quit continuously flogging ourselves about slavery which ended about 150 years ago in this country.

Of course, no one alive today was ever a slave in the USA. No one alive today was ever a slave owner in the USA (and few were back then, and some were not even "white").

If you are really outraged about slavery, read about Mauritania and other nations where it is still practiced today.

cnh

What? No need to remember Jim Crow, etc.? I thought so. Carry on.

Mauritania? This is an area a friend of mine in history can fill your ears about, especially the colonial and post-colonial histories. But no need to reflect on history because the problems are contemporary, right?

Post Racial America, a guilt free society, where everyone is equal and all history has been addressed in full?

Tata boys! Have your fun!

cnh

Timothy Smith

cnh wrote: »

What? No need to remember Jim Crow, etc.? I thought so. Carry on.

Mauritania? This is an area a friend of mine in history can fill your ears about, especially the colonial and post-colonial histories. But no need to reflect on history because the problems are contemporary, right?

Post Racial America, right?

Tata boys! Have your fun!

cnh

I think that I am the one trying to be post-racial.

If we keep dividing people by the color of their skin (truly a foolish distinction...but easy) we will never get to "post racial".

cnh

Timothy Smith wrote: »

I think that I am the one trying to be post-racial.

If we keep dividing people by the color of their skin (truly a foolish distinction...but easy) we will never get to "post racial".

Being post racial involves A LOT more than THIS! Think about it and get back to us. It is political and economic equality that is necessary. And, frankly, we're not there yet. But I'm sure "you" disagree! That's OK.

BTW. Do you know the history of the One Drop Rule and Hypodescent? And why we have a UNIQUE system of distinguishing blacks from whites in the U.S.? Read up!

cnh

F1nut

Myths and Misconceptions and the Slave Trade and Slavery

Slavery and World History

Myth: Slavery is a product of capitalism.
Fact: Slavery is older than the first human records.

Myth: Slavery is a product of Western Civilization.
Fact: Slavery is virtually a universal institution.

Myth: Slavery in the non-western world was a mild, benign, and non-economic institution.
Fact: Slaves were always subject to torture, sexual exploitation, and arbitrary death.

Myth: Slavery was an economically backward and inefficient institution.
Fact: Many of the most progressive societies in the world had slaves.

Myth: Slavery was always based on race.
Fact: Not until the 15th century was slavery associated primarily with people of African descent.

Enslavement and the Slave Trade

Myth:New World slaves came exclusively from West Africa.
Fact: Half of all New World slaves came from central Africa.

Myth: Europeans physically enslaved Africans or hired mercenaries who captured people for export or that African rulers were "Holocaust abettors" who were themselves to blame for the slave trade.
Fact: Europeans did engage in some slave raiding; the majority of people who were transported to the Americas were enslaved by Africans in Africa.

Myth:Many slaves were captured with nets.
Fact: There is no evidence that slaves were captured with nets; war was the most important source of enslavement.

Myth: Kidnapping was the usual means of enslavement.
Fact:War was the most important source of enslavement; it would be incorrect to reduce all of these wars to slave raids.

Myth: The Middle Passage stripped enslaved Africans of their cultural heritage and transformed them into docile, passive figures wholly receptive to the cultural inputs of their masters.
Fact:Slaves engaged in at least 250 shipboard rebellions.

Slavery in the Americas

Myth:Most slaves were imported into what is now the United States
Fact:Well over 90 percent of slaves from Africa were imported into the Caribbean and South America

Myth:Slavery played a marginal role in the history of the Americas
Fact: African slaves were the only remedy for the labor shortages that plagued Europe's New World dominions.
Fact:Slave labor made it profitable to mine for precious metal and to harvest sugar, indigo, and tobacco; slaves taught whites how to raise such crops as rice and indigo.

Myth:Europeans arrived in the New World in far larger numbers than did Africans.
Fact:Before 1820, the number of Africans outstripped the combined total of European immigrants by a ratio of 3, 4, or 5 to 1.

Myth:The first slaves arrived in what is now the U.S. in 1619
Fact:Slaves arrived in Spanish Florida at least a century before 1619 and a recently uncovered census shows that blacks were present in Virginia before 1619.

cnh

I don't see how any of the above "excuses" the history of "any" slave nation, Jesse. And that's really the "main" point here.

And there is nothing in that list that most of us educated boys and girls don't know. However there is a LOT missing from that list. The list is an attempt to de-historicize the specificity of different kinds of slavery.

I recommend Patterns of Race in the Americas for a more nuanced understanding of why race in the U.S. is different from race in other parts of the New World. Not better or worse, because it's all pretty horrible.

But enough of this. The history continues regardless of what we "think".

cnh

Timothy Smith

Thanks,

Thanks for the assignment, but I do think about it.

And I absolutely don't think we are there yet. The question is how to get there.

But I think it starts with "not" dividing or judging people by their skin color, white or black, bad or good.

I don't divide my friends, or family members, by race, or by height, or by hair color (or lack of hair), or by weight or by any other ridiculous "measure".

I am not interested in anyones "mixture". I don't know my own, and don't care to know.

F1nut

I don't see how any of the above "excuses" the history of "any" slave nation, Jesse.

Don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I posted is an excuse or an attempt at one. Purely myths and facts.

The list is an attempt to de-historicize the specificity of different kinds of slavery.

Epic fail.

I recommend Patterns of Race in the Americas for a more nuanced understanding of why race in the U.S. is different from race in other parts of the New World.

Simple, because people like you won't let it go.

cnh

Timothy Smith wrote: »

Thanks,

Thanks for the assignment, but I do think about it.

And I absolutely don't think we are there yet. The question is how to get there.

But I think it starts with "not" dividing or judging people by their skin color, white or black, bad or good.

I don't divide my friends, or family members, by race, or by height, or by hair color (or lack of hair), or by weight or by any other ridiculous "measure".

I am not interested in anyones "mixture". I don't know my own, and don't care to know.

I'm with you on that, Tim. We're not at odds there.

But when I look around, for example, at how many African Americans I have at my N.E. top 25 college and others like it, I don't see many and they're far fewer in number than their percentage of the general population. And that's merely one criteria. We struggle to get students from that group and it just saddens me when people just want to say "we're all on an even playing field, because that's not what I experience.

I went to an inner city Elementary school where 5 people out of 200 made it through a good 4 year college and some beyond. Several members of that class were already serving time by the time I was in college, all of them were African-American. Not ONE African-American from that class has more than a year or two of Junior college. And that's only my experience. I could refer you to one of my African American colleagues who also Pastors a church in the Boston area and the data just get worse and worse.

cnh

cnh

F1nut wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I posted is an excuse or an attempt at one. Purely myths and facts.



Epic fail.



Simple, because people like you won't let it go.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. And if I did put words in your mouth my apologies, but then why the need for a huge post about MYTHS when slavery became a topic?

Epic fail! Thanks for that.

So when we stop bringing these issues up, they'll solve themselves, right?

cnh

brgman

cnh wrote: »

I'm with you on that, Tim. We're not at odds there.

But when I look around, for example, at how many African Americans I have at my N.E. top 25 college and others like it, I don't see many and they're far fewer in number than their percentage of the general population. And that's merely one criteria. We struggle to get students from that group and it just saddens me when people just want to say "we're all on an even playing field, because that's not what I experience.

I went to an inner city Elementary school where 5 people out of 200 made it through a good 4 year college and some beyond. Several members of that class were already serving time by the time I was in college, all of them were African-American. Not ONE African-American from that class has more than a year or two of Junior college. And that's only my experience. I could refer you to one of my African American colleagues who also Pastors a church in the Boston area and the data just get worse and worse.

cnh

Let me guess,we need to throw a few more billion dollars at the failed education system so the worthless unions can make it "better" like they have for the past 40 years.

But hey the money gets funneled to the modern day slave owners so it's cool.

Timothy Smith

cnh wrote: »

I'm with you on that, Tim. We're not at odds there.

But when I look around, for example, at how many African Americans I have at my N.E. top 25 college and others like it, I don't see many and they're far fewer in number than their percentage of the general population. And that's merely one criteria. We struggle to get students from that group and it just saddens me when people just want to say "we're all on an even playing field, because that's not what I experience.

I went to an inner city Elementary school where 5 people out of 200 made it through a good 4 year college and some beyond. Several members of that class were already serving time by the time I was in college, all of them were African-American. Not ONE African-American from that class has more than a year or two of Junior college. And that's only my experience. I could refer you to one of my African American colleagues who also Pastors a church in the Boston area and the data just get worse and worse.

cnh

How do we "level the playing field"? (this will work for people of any "color")

DON'T vote en-mass for one political party. You will have less political power that way and will be taken for granted.

DON'T blame racism for your failures, and perhaps your lack of trying. Don't accept that for an excuse.

DON'T abort your babies. According to "News One for Black Americans", In NYC in 2012, there were 24,758 live births of black babies, and 31,328 abortions of black babies. That is a far bigger horror, in my mind, then not being represented proportionally in universities.

DON'T encourage, support, or even tolerate "thug" culture in music, movies, sports, or your neighborhood.

In many ways it seems that we have gone backwards in the last 10 or 20 years.

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

I'm with you on that, Tim. We're not at odds there.

But when I look around, for example, at how many African Americans I have at my N.E. top 25 college and others like it, I don't see many and they're far fewer in number than their percentage of the general population. And that's merely one criteria. We struggle to get students from that group and it just saddens me when people just want to say "we're all on an even playing field, because that's not what I experience.

I went to an inner city Elementary school where 5 people out of 200 made it through a good 4 year college and some beyond. Several members of that class were already serving time by the time I was in college, all of them were African-American. Not ONE African-American from that class has more than a year or two of Junior college. And that's only my experience. I could refer you to one of my African American colleagues who also Pastors a church in the Boston area and the data just get worse and worse.

cnh

Wow, guess my "all slaved out" comment got taken the wrong way. Sorry guys, didn't mean to turn this into a slavery discussion.

CNH,

I hear ya bro, and we are not too far off in our beliefs but some basic principles should be observed here. Created equal ? No...we are not and whoever says that B.S. is doing so for political gains. Equal opportunity ? No, there is not. Obviously, someone born into Bill Gates family will have better opportunities than another born from poverty. There is no way to equal that out no matter how you try. The best you can do is make opportunity available for those who will work hard for it....not expect it handed to them.

Equality is a double edged sword. We have laws already that each man be treated equally. Which once you start programs such as hiring racial quota's, affirmative action....you instantly create an unequal mentality. Once you start treating one group different than another....same thing. You created that inequality. Truth be told, we are NOT created equal, some are born with different skill sets than others. The key to equality is education, I'm sure we can agree there. Not education as you may see it though. I'm talking about recognizing a childs ability earlier on and forming and education process for that child instead of a one size fits all dumbed down system.

Think of how college works. You pick the classes that pertain to your interest, your career goals. Could we not do the same in high school ? Maybe even middle school ? Just a thought is all. The world will always need ditch diggers, bartenders, and people who will ask if you want fries with that. Thing is, we have far too many of those people and far too few good jobs to educate to. Add to that starting a small business these days isn't exactly easy either. Heck, you can't even have a bake sale, or lemonade stand anymore.

Slavery is an atrocity no doubt, a part of our past to remember so as not to make the same mistakes again. Yet we have made many other mistakes that movies never seem to capture, never seem to let us remember so as to not make those mistakes again either. That's all my other post was about. If you really want to get into that discussion, I might comment how some of these movies and our education system keeps hammering at our youth how bad the white race is and how terrible America or capitalism is.

recoveryone

I haven’t seen the movie yet, but it is on my to view list. As someone above pointed out there are no people around any longer that were a part of that era of our history on either side. But the effects (mindset) of those 400 years has left a mark on American society like no other culture change or influx of social status in our history. Even after the law condemned such practices, there were those that found ways to still exploit others.
I can understand Tony’s comment to a point for I always find it more fascinating on how the mindset of the controlling culture would find ways to keep those they felt beneath them from achieving equal status or better. This same mindset finds its way into those that are/have been oppressed and causes a self-hate mentality, which what has been the number one reason of the destruction of the inner city and Black families.

List of films:
Slavery under another name (loop holes in the anti-Slavery laws)
Once upon a time when we were colored
The Help
The Butler
Tuskegee Airman / Red Tails

Not sure how many watch the ESPN special report on the N word and how the difference of the word has changed over the years, but is still considered taboo for those outside of the black race.

Toolfan66

The fact that in 2014 we still talk/have racial separation is epic fail..

One cancer we as humans can heal/stop is racism, yet we seem to keep feeding it..

zane77

Have to agree with Larry on this!

rooftop59

Toolfan66 wrote: »

The fact that in 2014 we still talk/have racial separation is epic fail..

One cancer we as humans can heal/stop is racism, yet we seem to keep feeding it..

Yes let's stop talking about WWII as well. The fact that we can't just "get over" Hitler and the atrocities against the Jews is simply an "epic fail"

Mods please lock this thread. I can take ignorance about audio but this is ridiculous.

F1nut

Oh please, like that was the only time in history where ethnic cleansing took place. What about more recent history, do those people not matter to you?

brgman

F1nut wrote: »

Oh please, like that was the only time in history where ethnic cleansing took place. What about more recent history, do those people not matter to you?

They care about the others.....if it's hip.
Not cool? Not interested.

polk500

tonyb wrote: »

Saw this....not impressed. Nothing we haven't seen before in any other slave movie which I think I'm about all slaved out. Brad Pitt appearing towards the end to be the good guy and savior....was horrible. He belonged in this movie as much as a spaceship does. Not a movie of the year contender, most performances were mediocre at best. The guy with the best performance was the dude who played the younger Magneto in X-Men....can't remember his name now. All in all, just an ok movie.

Well watched this last evening(not wishing to talk about the subject matter as being a Canadian I don't feel like getting into a debate on the issues as I feel I haven't study or got involved enough to comment) but the movie itself was poorly acted almost wooden even.

While some of the scenes were intense/graphic it seems to focus more on that then perhaps focusing on Solomon's work after he was rescued instead of just a footnote at the end.

Roger

F1nut

The news reports that at least 2 of the Oscar voters did not even watch the movie, yet voted it best picture. What a joke!

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

The news reports that at least 2 of the Oscar voters did not even watch the movie, yet voted it best picture. What a joke!

Wow... People voting without actually knowing what they are voting for or why they are voting at all. I guess Hollywood really is not that far out of touch with the rest of the country.

Dabutcher

One group in our country will always try to keep another group down in poverty. There always has to be an underclass to be dependent on government so they will be guaranteed to vote for that party. Let's abort another 56 million american baby's in the next twenty years and not put to death murderers. My New idea. Instead of aborting another 56 million babies. Let's turn them over to the military to raise as an army and after fifteen years of service they can return to civilian life. Anti war people and anti abortion people can come together on this idea! Peace. D