POWER CORD REPLACEMENT 12ga or 14ga...
pitdogg2
Posts: 25,442
So Fellas,
My TFM25/45 and C16 preamp are going to get new cords this weekend. The original cords were 18ga lamp cord type and getting brittle and stiff. I've done the preliminary scouting on the inside and it is just a little tight. I have both 12 and 14 gauge SJOOW cords, should I just go 12 and call it a day or make it a little easier on myself and go 14? Both are a huge step up if you ask me, but would there be any benefit to the 12 over 14. I'm thinking not really on my end. Now before you get all your panties in a twist IEC is OUT of the question. I do not need to be able to play hokie pokie with different cords as flexibility is the biggest concern. I also see no need for shielded as it was never before and I have had no problems with that aspect.
so what say you...hmmmmm
My TFM25/45 and C16 preamp are going to get new cords this weekend. The original cords were 18ga lamp cord type and getting brittle and stiff. I've done the preliminary scouting on the inside and it is just a little tight. I have both 12 and 14 gauge SJOOW cords, should I just go 12 and call it a day or make it a little easier on myself and go 14? Both are a huge step up if you ask me, but would there be any benefit to the 12 over 14. I'm thinking not really on my end. Now before you get all your panties in a twist IEC is OUT of the question. I do not need to be able to play hokie pokie with different cords as flexibility is the biggest concern. I also see no need for shielded as it was never before and I have had no problems with that aspect.
so what say you...hmmmmm
Post edited by pitdogg2 on
Comments
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Now before you get all your panties in a twist IEC is OUT of the question. I do not need to be able to play hokie pokie with different cords as flexibility is the biggest concern.
I think you are selling yourself short by not going with an IEC giving you the ability to use high quality aftermarket cords.I also see no need for shielded as it was never before and I have had no problems with that aspect.
That would likely be a case of not knowing you had a problem until you use a shielded cord.
All that said, out of the 2 choices, use the 12 gauge.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Do cables really matter?
Does anybody really know what time it is?
I don't
Does anybody really care?Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
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I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
I think you are selling yourself short by not going with an IEC giving you the ability to use high quality aftermarket cords.
Well I am not knocking them in any way. There is just a bunch of stuff right behind the cord input that I do not want to unsolder. TDK noise suppressor being one and a couple of small boards that could get damaged if I slip somehow with a dremel. My rig goes right to outlet I could put an 18" cord on it and be done but I'm going with 24" to be able to move amp and pre within the locking credenza.That would likely be a case of not knowing you had a problem until you use a shielded cord.
All that said, out of the 2 choices, use the 12 gauge.
you very well could be right. Nothing in the way straight shot to dedicated outlet.
So do I solder to the TDK noise suppressor or crimp on gold plated fast-on to it and then solder that to tab. TDK tabs are very small like tweeter tabs. It is just very little room to work and do not want to gob up the wire on the tab itself. Would those two connection point make too much resistance? -
Do cables really matter?
Does anybody really know what time it is?
I don't
Does anybody really care?
smartie pants back to your corner
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you very well could be right. Nothing in the way straight shot to dedicated outlet.
The cord doesn't need to be near anything, EMI and RF are in the air.So do I solder to the TDK noise suppressor or crimp on gold plated fast-on to it and then solder that to tab. TDK tabs are very small like tweeter tabs. It is just very little room to work and do not want to gob up the wire on the tab itself. Would those two connection point make too much resistance?
If there's not much room, use the fastons.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
smartie pants back to your corner
Hehe
Of course I agree with F1 on this dogg.Not because he's so darn cute but from my own experience.
I'd be surprised if you don't hear an improvement with the shielded12.
Cables DO matter,and I care.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
I think you are selling yourself short by not going with an IEC giving you the ability to use high quality aftermarket cords. .
This ^^^^
If you lack the skills, take it somewhere and have a qualified dude install the IEC. If you plan on keeping that gear for any length of time. Don't under estimate what a quality power cord brings to the table.HT SYSTEM-
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From what I've read and experienced shielded should be used on digital, unshielded on analog. There may be exceptions, which is why using an IEC input would be a good idea. Replacing the stock shielded cords on my Odyssey linestage and power amp with unshielded designs high quality cables and connectors was a very good move.
I soldered in place in my TFM 42 a CVH Flavor 2 cord (12 awg, unshielded) with a cheap Lowes AC plug. Very easy to do and made an easily noticeable improvement. Later on I replaced the plug with a Furutech FI-11, which helped also."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
From what I've read and experienced shielded should be used on digital, unshielded on analog.
Interesting, can't say I've heard of that before. What is the logic behind using unshielded on analog?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Usually devices without ground have a Class 2 insulated chassis. Adding an IEC with ground can go both ways. You could install the IEC and not attach the ground. Do some research before attaching an IEC ground to something that didn't have it before.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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So Fellas,
My TFM25/45 and C16 preamp are going to get new cords this weekend. The original cords were 18ga lamp cord type and getting brittle and stiff. I've done the preliminary scouting on the inside and it is just a little tight. I have both 12 and 14 gauge SJOOW cords, should I just go 12 and call it a day or make it a little easier on myself and go 14? Both are a huge step up if you ask me, but would there be any benefit to the 12 over 14. I'm thinking not really on my end. Now before you get all your panties in a twist IEC is OUT of the question. I do not need to be able to play hokie pokie with different cords as flexibility is the biggest concern. I also see no need for shielded as it was never before and I have had no problems with that aspect.
so what say you...hmmmmm
I would say 12AWG on the power amp cord, and 14AWG on the preamp. Houses are usually wired with Romex 12AWG or 14AWG. Most houses have at least some 20A circuits. If your power amp is on a 20A circuit it is wired, at minimum, 12AWG. If it is on a 15A circuit it is 1) wired with 14AWG wire, or 2) there is just a 15A breaker on a 20A capable circuit (12AWG). The logic for having at minimum a 12AWG power cable to your power amps is that there is no resistance introduced to the continuum of power especially during loud transients. Power would be traveling full force from 12AWG (from your wall) through 12AWG (your power amp cord) to your power amp. Going from 12AWG in your wall to a power cable of smaller wire (i.e., 14 guage, 16 guage) carries the potential of limiting dynamic peaks from increased resistance.
As for most of your other equipment 14AWG would be more that good enough since your other components don't require as much current.Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
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Interesting, can't say I've heard of that before. What is the logic behind using unshielded on analog?
Unshielded, twisted provides rejection of EMI/RFI without the need of a shield. Building the cable without a shield and with a safety ground spaced away from the hot and neutral lines by spiraling it outside a sheath (as opposed as part of the twist of hot/neutral) reduces capacitive coupling with the hot line, providing a reduced noise floor, improved dynamics and excellent LF response.
That's the theory and my experience matches it. I've also read that others have used this cord on digital to good effect, though I've not tried it."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
SCompRacer wrote: »Usually devices without ground have a Class 2 insulated chassis. Adding an IEC with ground can go both ways. You could install the IEC and not attach the ground. Do some research before attaching an IEC ground to something that didn't have it before.
Correct Rich I would not use the ground tab on an IEC or buy one without. -
Hehe
Of course I agree with F1 on this dogg.Not because he's so darn cute but from my own experience.
I'd be surprised if you don't hear an improvement with the shielded12.
Cables DO matter,and I care.
I knew you were just jerking my chain...This ^^^^
If you lack the skills, take it somewhere and have a qualified dude install the IEC. If you plan on keeping that gear for any length of time. Don't under estimate what a quality power cord brings to the table.
I have the skill my problem in I have my gear in an old credenza that I lock when not home. I really need the flexibility more than anything. The stiffness of the IEC cord and the route it would take would put more stress than I'm comfortable with.
I may very well do this again but for now I put a 2' sjoow 12-3 and didn't use the ground at the amp end.
F1 was right I should of used the some quick connectors but I didn't have any 90* as with a normal quick connector there's not enough room. -
I have not tried the Morrow Audio power cords but believe they are more flexible than most.
Call Mike and tell him what your trying to accomplish and I bet he will treat you well and get you what you want.
http://www.morrowaudio.com/map1.htm -
All that said, out of the 2 choices, use the 12 gauge.
I agree; the bigger the better. -
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OK a little update here. I went ahead and installed a IEC connector. I didn't like the way the 12ga wire sat inside on the tabs of the Toshiba noise doohickey. I moved it back about 1/2 to be able to get an IEC into the chassis. I bought these although I didn't pay the price listed it was much cheaper. Funny what happens when you show a seller from China what a seller in Taiwan is selling then forhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/130564686405?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 VERY NICE IEC you can tighten down nicely. Guess now I need to cut a new hole through the credenza to accommodate the cord to go through. I will do the Carver C16 later as there is 6 outlets in the way and the phono section is to close to where the IEC or new cord would need to go. Talking to Roland(hitech audio) he concurred and even though I do not have a table one never knows and I do not want to induce any gremlins for myself or anyone else should I sell it. I will be sending it to him later this year.
Thanks to F1 for all his advice and help through our PM's the man may be short on words but they spot on ALWAYS
Again Thanks Jesse -
thats a nice IEC socket for a great price. bookmarked for future projects.
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Note that it's a 15 Amp socket and that Gold plating doesn't add anything good to a high current, high voltage contact.
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Speedskater wrote: »Note that it's a 15 Amp socket and that Gold plating doesn't add anything good to a high current, high voltage contact.
true enough but it does have a 20amp dedicated outlet going to it and 12 gauge cord is good for 20amps. The thing that gets me is they also sell them with Rhodium plating and Rhodium is much less conductive than gold or nickel for that matter. This is MUCH better than the 18ga lamp cord the amp came with no 2 ways about it. -
But the IEC socket is 15 Amps. Gold plating is easily damaged by high current and once it's damaged it's not very conductive.
Only use Gold on low-voltage, low-current contacts. -
Speedskater wrote: »Only use Gold on low-voltage, low-current contacts.
Or yo grillz!
YEAAAAHHHHH BOOOOOOYYYYYY"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Speedskater wrote: »But the IEC socket is 15 Amps. Gold plating is easily damaged by high current and once it's damaged it's not very conductive.
Only use Gold on low-voltage, low-current contacts.
So then all those expensive Neotech,Furutech and other high dollar IEC and Plugs are all wrong good to know......:rolleyes: well the underlying metal is copper so maybe I have that going for me....Yes I ground on in 1/2 to see. Most times China calls brass copper so their 1/2 right but it is copper.
