2-channel advice for a newb

Doodsmack

Hi all, brand new here and would greatly appreciate some advice. I am basically new to the home audio scene. I am looking to buy a 2.1 or 2.0 system, preferably with a 5.1 receiver so that the system is upgradeable down the road. The reason I only want 2-channel is basically for simplicity, and because I live in a small apartment. These would be going in a small living room.

Now, I currently own a Bose Cinemate II system, so I think the answer to this question is yes, but first of all would 2 floorstanding speakers be a worthwhile upgrade over that? Right now newegg has the Polk 75Ts on sale for $200 each. Newegg also has some receiver deals and I was kind of eyeing up the Pioneer VSX-822-K.

So if I really wanted to I could do an impulse buy on 2 75Ts and the pioneer receiver. Alternately I could seek advice on the best 2-channel system for a small living room with a budget of $600-700. Can you guys help me out?

Note the reason I haven't mentioned a sub is basically because I was assuming good floorstanding speakers would provide plenty of bass for a small room...plus I can easily buy a sub later if I want to.

deronb1

I would consider bookshelf speakers on nice stands and a decent sub. RtiA3s can be had for a song. Those combined with say a psw 505 would be a sweet 2.1 system for both music and HT. Pioneer would match very well with em.

drummer86

In small living rooms I see almost no reason to go with towers over bookshelves/sub unless you like crazy high volumes. Bookshelves will have better quality components than towers of the same price and a good sub will do the bass better and be more versatile in terms of power requirements than said towers.

If you plan to have a full home theater system someday then go with a receiver, but it's not necessarily an upgrade over a quality 2-channel system. I have a 5.1 in my living room for movies but only ever listen to music in 2.1.

Doodsmack

Zero wrote: »

Hello Doodsmack,

Welcome to the forum.

Since you're lookin' to take your first steps towards a truly decent stereo system, I'm gunna let you in on a little secret... Unless visions of home-theater systems continually dance around in your head, I'd encourage you to drop the notion of buying a 5.1 receiver (those things rarely sound good anyway) and hone your attention towards assembling a good two-channel system. The good news is that $600-700 could land you a pretty good starter-system. Now, before I begin to riff off a list of gear for you to check out, I have a few questions for you.

1) What kind of music do you most often listen to?
2) Do you like to listen at loud volumes, or do you listen at more modest sound pressure levels?
3) What kind of source ( Bluray player, cd-player, turn-table, etc...) do you use?
4) Is your situation set up to where you can sit directly in front of two speakers and listen to music?
5) How much space will there be between you and the speakers? Any rough estimate will do.

Alright, that just about covers it. Will respond once I see those answers.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am open to the idea of not getting a 5.1 receiver. I assume I would still need a stereo receiver? I do want to be able to connect multiple sources.

1. EDM
2. I hAve a feeling that what you guys call loud is not what I listen to. I keep headphone volume at 50% if that gives you an idea. I certainly will crank it up on occasion though.
3. I will have a turntable (Rotel RP-855), HTPC (onboard audio. Maybe adding sound card is good idea? Should I also get a DAC? I don't really know what that is but I heard its a good idea), and video game consoles, any blu-Ray playing will be thru PS3. But movies will mainly be netflix from the HTPC or smart tv. And I will stream spotify through HTPC or smartphone. I would like to have smartphone connection, although not if I have to sacrifice audio quality to find a receiver with that feature.
4. Yes. Ent center is in corner of room. There's also seating at angles to the ent center, not severe angles though.
5. I'd say 10 ft

If you could even recommend what cables to get that would've great

drummer86

Since you have multiple video sources, you may want to stick with an AVR. Integrated amps are strictly for audio and while they tend to offer more in the "sound quality" department they just don't offer the connectivity that it seems you are looking for. If you're open to buying things used your money goes a lot further. Refurbs are also an option (my receiver was purchased refurbished and has worked perfectly for 2 years.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5006/Marantz-SR5006-AV-Receiver-with-Networking-and-AirPlay/1.html

The Pioneers that Zero recommended are an excellent bang for your buck speaker, and will be an excellent place to start. You'll likely want to add a subwoofer (or two) down the line to round out the sound.

Other good options:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/CAMBS70BLK/CAMBRIDGE-AUDIO-S70-5-3-way-Floorstanding-Speakers-Each-Black/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFQ100BL/KEF-Q100-Q-Series-5-1/4-inch-Black-Bookshelf-Speakers-pair/1.html

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-46808-wharfedale-diamond-101-cherry-demo.aspx

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-106164-music-hall-marimba-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41245-focal-chorus-705v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

Doodsmack

drummer86 wrote: »

Since you have multiple video sources, you may want to stick with an AVR. Integrated amps are strictly for audio and while they tend to offer more in the "sound quality" department they just don't offer the connectivity that it seems you are looking for. If you're open to buying things used your money goes a lot further. Refurbs are also an option (my receiver was purchased refurbished and has worked perfectly for 2 years.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5006/Marantz-SR5006-AV-Receiver-with-Networking-and-AirPlay/1.html

The Pioneers that Zero recommended are an excellent bang for your buck speaker, and will be an excellent place to start. You'll likely want to add a subwoofer (or two) down the line to round out the sound.

Other good options:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/CAMBS70BLK/CAMBRIDGE-AUDIO-S70-5-3-way-Floorstanding-Speakers-Each-Black/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFQ100BL/KEF-Q100-Q-Series-5-1/4-inch-Black-Bookshelf-Speakers-pair/1.html

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-46808-wharfedale-diamond-101-cherry-demo.aspx

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-106164-music-hall-marimba-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41245-focal-chorus-705v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

Yeah I'm with this guy on the need for HDMI. And used does sound like a good idea for a starter system. Looks like with that Marantz or something similar and the BS21s, we'd be at 620...I could stretch up to 900 if it could get me a sub & stands...so basically 200 for a sub?

Doodsmack

The Marantz SR5006 that is.

Doodsmack

Alright this what I am looking at right now. This brings me to $1000. Guess it was bound to happen lol. Think this DAC is worth it? Also what cable do I need for the sub? Any suggestions welcome. Thanks again for the help.

Pioneer SC-1222-K
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083C8B30/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I1UBEGKHLARZYC

Pioneer BS-41s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

Dayton Audio SUB-1000
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063NU3AA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I3C3L0GOENLHTE

AudioQuest G-Snake
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006DPQ28/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I7PN0YFJ3EL6H

Pangea stands
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GLX7S00/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I3JPMOBWC0FZKW

Cheapie DAC for use w/ HTPC:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I17KTSWRSF4M8E

It should probably be noted I plan to use Linux with the HTPC. Maybe there will be compatibility issues with the receiver and dac.

deronb1

NewEgg has DefTech Studio Monitor 350s for 179 pr. Better than the Pios. At that price you could sell and get your money back or even make a little. I've owned these and they have a really nice sound for both music and HT.

lanchile

Doodsmack wrote: »

Alright this what I am looking at right now. This brings me to $1000. Guess it was bound to happen lol. Think this DAC is worth it? Also what cable do I need for the sub? Any suggestions welcome. Thanks again for the help.

Pioneer SC-1222-K
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083C8B30/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I1UBEGKHLARZYC

Pioneer BS-41s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

Dayton Audio SUB-1000
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063NU3AA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I3C3L0GOENLHTE

AudioQuest G-Snake
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006DPQ28/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I7PN0YFJ3EL6H

Pangea stands
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GLX7S00/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I3JPMOBWC0FZKW

Cheapie DAC for use w/ HTPC:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=I17KTSWRSF4M8E

It should probably be noted I plan to use Linux with the HTPC. Maybe there will be compatibility issues with the receiver and dac.

For a $1000usd you can get better gears than that on the used market.you will need a good integrated amp with two good bookshelf speakers. or even an amplifier/preamp, I have seen many of these combo like Adcom on ebay for about $600. in your case, I would look on the used market. Good places are Ebay, Audiogon, Audio circle etc. if you are lucky you can find a Bryston B60 for $700usd. I have had many, many commercial amplifiers, integrated amplifiers, receivers etc that I lost count lol. My favorite of all is the
Bryston B60R. then I would go for portal Panache and Acurus Dia100. Right now I am using my diy integrated amp with B&W 686 speakers....if you know some basic in electronics you can always go for the "DIY" way, I went that way and now I will never buy commercial amps. I have been in the Diy for many years and I love it. I have build many amplifiers like Class A, Class A/B, Tubes. I build some F4, F5 from Nelson Pass (very good) I also build some of these amps: NXV200, LM60, T300, M400,( LM3886, LM3875 called Chipamps or gainclone)) also many from the web that I found very interesting. I would be very careful buying "those" new amps that are all with IC/microprocessors controlled. Call me "old fashion" but, I like the all good two channel discrete/analogue gears for their :simplicity, reliability and quality. I would not recommend you to get a receiver, if you need a tuner, just get it separately. But again all this is just a recommendation. There will be many others that will recommend some different set ups. Good luck.

PS: I work in an electronic shop "fixing" all the new gears like: LED/LCD/ Plasma TV's, Amplifiers, stereos etc, etc.

Doodsmack

lanchile wrote: »

For a $1000usd you can get better gears than that on the used market.you will need a good integrated amp with two good bookshelf speakers. or even an amplifier/preamp, I have seen many of these combo like Adcom on ebay for about $600. in your case, I would look on the used market. Good places are Ebay, Audiogon, Audio circle etc. if you are lucky you can find a Bryston B60 for $700usd. I have had many, many commercial amplifiers, integrated amplifiers, receivers etc that I lost count lol. My favorite of all is the
Bryston B60R. then I would go for portal Panache and Acurus Dia100. Right now I am using my diy integrated amp with B&W 686 speakers....if you know some basic in electronics you can always go for the "DIY" way, I went that way and now I will never buy commercial amps. I have been in the Diy for many years and I love it. I have build many amplifiers like Class A, Class A/B, Tubes. I build some F4, F5 from Nelson Pass (very good) I also build some of these amps: NXV200, LM60, T300, M400,( LM3886, LM3875 called Chipamps or gainclone)) also many from the web that I found very interesting. I would be very careful buying "those" new amps that are all with IC/microprocessors controlled. Call me "old fashion" but, I like the all good two channel discrete/analogue gears for their :simplicity, reliability and quality. I would not recommend you to get a receiver, if you need a tuner, just get it separately. But again all this is just a recommendation. There will be many others that will recommend some different set ups. Good luck.

PS: I work in an electronic shop "fixing" all the new gears like: LED/LCD/ Plasma TV's, Amplifiers, stereos etc, etc.

I think I really need a receiver for the digital inputs. DIY is not an option. But I could find a better one used... I also don't really need any of the networking features that one has. Maybe a stereo receiver is th way to go.

deronb1

Dont skimp on your speakers. They are the most important part of your system

Loud & Clear

Something like a used NAD C370 would be a nice budget integrated for such a system. Tons of power and slightly warm in case our budget speakers get a little hot on top.

But like deron said, it starts with the speakers. You have to get the right speakers for you, otherwise the rest of your gear will be fighting a losing battle.

deronb1

Agreed. I have never heard the pioneers so i hope i am not giving bad advice. I have blown through speakers looking for that right sound. I think the op needs to go out and listen to a number of different speakers and decide how he wants to divide up the budget.

vinyladdict

Get the 75t's , they are awesome sounding speakers that can be driven very well with just 50 watts a channel .Got mine at newegg also. Have had these for like 9 months now and they are amazing, you hear things you never have heard before in your recordings. They make a great 2 channel setup , unless you are an extreme basshead a sub is not needed .

Onkyo 8020
marantz cd player
technics semi auto turntable

Doodsmack wrote: »

Hi all, brand new here and would greatly appreciate some advice. I am basically new to the home audio scene. I am looking to buy a 2.1 or 2.0 system, preferably with a 5.1 receiver so that the system is upgradeable down the road. The reason I only want 2-channel is basically for simplicity, and because I live in a small apartment. These would be going in a small living room.

Now, I currently own a Bose Cinemate II system, so I think the answer to this question is yes, but first of all would 2 floorstanding speakers be a worthwhile upgrade over that? Right now newegg has the Polk 75Ts on sale for $200 each. Newegg also has some receiver deals and I was kind of eyeing up the Pioneer VSX-822-K.

So if I really wanted to I could do an impulse buy on 2 75Ts and the pioneer receiver. Alternately I could seek advice on the best 2-channel system for a small living room with a budget of $600-700. Can you guys help me out?

Note the reason I haven't mentioned a sub is basically because I was assuming good floorstanding speakers would provide plenty of bass for a small room...plus I can easily buy a sub later if I want to.

cnh

I like Zero's suggestions above. But regarding the Pioneers. The newest series, the SP BS22lr might be worth a look. Although they have a smaller 4" woofer, the range is supposedly the same as the 41s and the crossovers have been "reworked" (and the drivers as well) by A. Jones. I've heard this new set, and let me say, there is nothing that can touch them for the sale price that they're often available at (which is often less than $100). I've run a set on a NAD integrated C325, an old JVC JR-S301, and the separate system I run my Lsi-7s on. They were better than expected on every one of these!

Add a sub and you're good! The Dayton suggested is not bad, but perhaps the Dayton Sub 800 (the 8") might be faster than the larger 10". I'm just guessing here though?

cnh

Doodsmack

I'm now favoring the idea of a stereo receiver. The idea of getting 5.1 for the purpose of future upgrades just doesn't make much sense since I wouldn't want to get a 5.1 system until I own my own house, which will not be for a while. It also seems like the stereo receivers have less of the excessive features that I don't want to pay for, such as multiple zones and networking. A lot of the nice 5.1 receivers also have way more digital inputs than I need.

Unfortunately I haven't found any stereo receivers with HDMI inputs. But I have my eyes on this Onkyo (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004UR486G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VLPXGKPPWYHI&coliid=IKMMN0ZQO3070), which has 2 optical inputs and coaxial inputs. At the moment the only digital inputs I need are for the HTPC, PS3, and cable box. In the future I may add a PS4 and Xbox One, but I think those are the only additional sources on the horizon. So you can see I don't need 7 HDMI inputs.

That receiver is only $250 which would bring my total system down to below $700. My question is, am I sacrificing sound quality by getting that Onkyo receiver? In other words is a more expensive 5.1 receiver with a lot of unneeded bells and whistles still worth it for the superior sound quality?

Also do you think given that Onkyo receiver, this new system as a whole is a worthwhile upgrade over the Bose Cinemate II?

Thanks again

Doodsmack

Right now I'm looking at Marantz slimline av receiver and a Marantz integrated amp. I would have to find the integrated amp refurb/used. If I went with the integrated amp, I would hook my sources up to my TV via HDMI and connect TV to amp with TV's optical audio out.

Marantz PM6005 vs Marantz NR1504

Would the integrated amp be a noticeable sound quality difference? It also has a DAC. Would only get the PM6005 if it has noticeably superior sound quality, since NR1504 has more features that I would make use of.

tonyb

Doodsmack wrote: »

Right now I'm looking at Marantz slimline av receiver and a Marantz integrated amp. I would have to find the integrated amp refurb/used. If I went with the integrated amp, I would hook my sources up to my TV via HDMI and connect TV to amp with TV's optical audio out.

Marantz PM6005 vs Marantz NR1504

Would the integrated amp be a noticeable sound quality difference? It also has a DAC. Would only get the PM6005 if it has noticeably superior sound quality, since NR1504 has more features that I would make use of.

Here's the problem with that thought process. Tv's are terrible decoders, most anyway. ideally, you want to hook everything up to an AVR by HDMI then one cable out to the TV. By using just the optical out on the tv, you won't get any newer surround formats that Blu-ray offers or any 5.1 music if that's something you may be interested in down the road.

You need HDMI inputs, you also need something a tad more beefier than the 45 watts that Marantz integrated puts out. In essence, what your doing is limiting yourself for future upgrades when some extra coin becomes available.

Don't over think this. Grab a receiver that has HDMI inputs and 5.1 preouts that will fit your wallet. Those 2 things alone will future proof you for years to come. Most decent receivers these days have at least 100 watts per channel, decent dacs, and should be good enough to drive anything in the Polk line-up from RTIA5 on down. Good luck in your search.

steveinaz

One mistake I see with many budding audiophiles, is picking speakers like they are an "after-thought." BIG mistake. Think of your system as an aquarium; fish are gonna be the main attraction---not the tank. You wouldn't buy a super high-end aquarium and throw guppies in there, would'ja?

The great thing about good speakers is that you can always grow into them, and in the meantime, enjoy their sound as you upgrade.

Loud & Clear

Yeah, if I've got $1,000, I'm at least going to step up to the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1.

Doodsmack

Thanks for the suggestions, I think I am gonna go with a 5.1 avr for cheaper, denon avr-e300 goes for 240 refurb, and also cheaper cables and maybe used stands locally, and spend more on the speakers and sub. I'll get the wharfedale diamond 10.1 and a nicer sub, any advice on 8" vs 10"? Thanks

steveinaz

Skip the sub for now...seriously. use that 'sub" money for a better receiver/integrated and/or source.

Zentish

My advice is, if at all possible, try to listen to the speakers before you buy them. Everyone has different ears, different tastes, and you don't want to buy some speakers that you'll regret later. If you're on a budget this system may need to last you quite a while so focus on the most important components first.

My first "serious" system was a pair of POLK Monitor 5B bookshelf speakers and a simple (but reasonably powered) ONKYO integrated amp. Over time I added pieces to my system, moved from an apartment to a house, converted it into a home theater with a sub woofer, center, surrounds. I purchased the speakers and amp in 1985 and they are still my main speakers and the amp still works and drives my un-powered subwoofer. I've gone through something like 4 or 5 AVR's, 2 or 3 pairs of surrounds and 2 different center speakers. I had no idea when I purchased those first components that they would last so long but here I am almost 30 years later and the speakers are still kicking and the amp is still driving.

Welcome to the club!

tonyb

Doodsmack wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions, I think I am gonna go with a 5.1 avr for cheaper, denon avr-e300 goes for 240 refurb, and also cheaper cables

Sounds like a recipe for bad sound.

The Diamond 10.1"s have a nominal 6 ohm rating, which means they can dip even lower. Add to that the efficiency rating of 86, makes them a bit power hungry. Something a "cheap" avr won't handle very well. The result may leave you unsatisfied. Cheap cables won't help matters either.

If your dead set on cheap....with the AVR and Cables, get an easier to drive set of bookies, something 8 ohm with an efficiency rating of 90 or above. Just my .02

Hermitism

Doodsmack wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions, I think I am gonna go with a 5.1 avr for cheaper, denon avr-e300 goes for 240 refurb, and also cheaper cables and maybe used stands locally, and spend more on the speakers and sub. I'll get the wharfedale diamond 10.1 and a nicer sub, any advice on 8" vs 10"? Thanks

Hey man, just for the heck of it, can you tell us what large city is closest to you? If there was a good deal on Craigslist, you could get a good AVR, and apply the money you saved on good cables, speakers and sub. I got my AVR for $300 on CL. AVR's don't hold their value for long, so you can find some wicked good deals if you don't mind having technology that is a couple years old. I was originally going to buy a new entry level AVR, but ended up buying a used PIO SC model. Don't regret it one bit.

Doodsmack

The denon I mentioned is a deal in itself since it is refurb. Msrp is 400 which is why I was thinking it wasn't a ****ty avr.

I am in the DC area. And yes I would be open to finding something local that's better deal than on A4L.

Hermitism

I'm just going to throw these out there and let someone else comment on if they think they are good deals or not. These guys know where to find deals, so they'd know. I only searched for SC models. There were other Elite models that showed up.

Pioneer Elite SC 65 MSRP $1600 (middle river)
Bought new 6 months ago from overture audio, as new condition with original box, packing and all accessories
$750

pioneer elite sc-25 MSRP $1800 (dundalk)
Like new
$500

tonyb

Doodsmack wrote: »

The denon I mentioned is a deal in itself since it is refurb. Msrp is 400 which is why I was thinking it wasn't a ****ty avr.
.

400 Msrp is considered entry level in the receiver market. Unfortunately the power supply used in those is also "entry level". Without preouts, your stuck with the power supply built into the unit. With preouts, you can add as much power as your wallet can handle.

We are talking a few hundred bucks here, you'll wish you spent that early on as opposed to wishing you had it later when you need it. If all you'll ever need or want is an 8 ohm high efficiency speaker, then a budget avr might be your ticket. If your the kind that keeps looking for deals on better speakers, then that budget avr will become a big paper weight soon enough.

Doodsmack

I actually intend for the system I buy now to be what I use for years to come. By the time I upgraded to 5.1 or above I would have a better job and a house anyway, so I could afford something new. So I am not so interested in buying a nice receiver for the purpose of future upgrades, but that said I certainly want something that will drive the wharfedales well. I saw a couple more local deals, but maybe these receivers are no better than the other Denon I mentioned.

Denon AVR-1613 $200
Sony-STRDN1030 $250

Thanks a lot for the detailed help it is very useful.

Bonus points for a desktop computer audio question. My 12 year old Klipsch Promedia 2.1 is dying on me I think, the left speaker and sub are going in and out. Sometimes just out. Saw a local deal for M-Audio BX5A Deluxe for $150. How do you think those would sound connected to a PC sound card?

drummer86

Seems like a bit of a waste of money to buy a receiver that you won't be able to resell.

That said, I think you'd be perfectly happy with something like a Denon X-1000 or AVR-1913. Both offer lots of bells and whistles and if you're only running 2 speakers should do just fine. You can get them refurbed for about $300.