Dedicated 20a Circuit

hochpt21

I know there are a few threads out there and I have read most of them. I know a dedicated 20a circuit is overkill for my B&K amp, but I want to future-proof myself a little bit.

My plan is to buy a hospital-grade receptacle such as this one. http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-W-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B000LEL6I0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391101293&sr=8-1&keywords=hospital+grade+receptacle

Do I then just ask the electrician to wire me a dedicated 20a circuit? Or do I need to be more specific with what materials he uses?

My box is full, but he said he would basically take one breaker switch and turn it into two. Does that sound right?

Anything I am missing?

Thanks,
Paul

Moose68Bash

With the true caveat that others on this Forum know far more than I, I would say your electrician is correct in saying he can take a slot in your main panel that now has one breaker and replace it with two. The question is not how many slots you have, but how many amps is your service and is there a danger of an overload? If there is such a danger, you may need to increase the amperage of service to your main panel -- say, from 100 amps to 200 amps, or from 200 to 400.

With respect to specifying materials, when I had a dedicated circuit installed for my main system, I specified 4 conductor, 12 AWG cable because I wanted to install an audio grade receptacle with isolated ground, which requires a separate conductor for the isolated ground. I did not specify the wire manufacturer. You could go for more expensive, better wire than what your electrician is likely to go out and purchase for the job.

Again, I'm sure others on the Forum can give you more expert and, perhaps, sounder advice.

BlueFox

Get a better audiophile receptacle than hospital grade. Shunyata makes the SR-Z1, check out the Cable Company. The electrician does not magically turn one breaker into two breakers. He replaces one old style full size breaker with two half-height breakers. I have two dedicated lines for my stereo, and one for the HT. Each one made a big improvement, and it is probably the most cost effective upgrade their is.

hochpt21

What about a PS Audio Power Port Classic?

F1nut

Instead of doing the double breaker, never liked that idea, I would do a sub panel. Use 12/2 or even better 10/2 Romex.

What about a PS Audio Power Port Classic?

An excellent choice.

nspindel

If you reeeeeeeeeeeally wanna do it right, you need an audiophile breaker panel!

http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=64

I'm joking, of course....

hochpt21

Got the ok from the wife to have them do a 12 breaker sub panel.

Electrician said they use 12/2.

Also ordered 2 Power Port Classics from Music Direct. One for my 2-ch and one for my HT.

Hope to get it all done in a couple weeks.

BlueFox

You can tell the electrician to use 10 gauge. That is the benefit of being the customer.

F1nut

They have to use 12/2 for a 20 amp line, but you can demand they use 10/2 on any 20 amp line you want. The wire will cost a bit more, but not that much. Electricians don't like to work 10/2 because it is harder on them.

hochpt21

He said they can use 10, but it may take longer to install. If it is a big difference, I may tell them to use it, but paying by the hour, didn't know if it was worth it.

BlueFox

It doesn't take any longer to install, but it does cost a few dollars more.

F1nut

Agree with BlueFox, it doesn't take longer. They will say anything to get out of using 10/2.....LOL

polk500

Agree it doesn't take any longer, I added two 20 amp and one 15 amp last fall. The only difference is the wire is a little stiffer to work with but it doesn't any longer to install the breakers or the receptacles.
I would look for another electrician if he says he is going to charge you more to use 10/2.

Cheers
Roger

hochpt21

Thanks for the info. They won't be long runs at all, so I'll tell them 10/2.

Speedskater

Thoughts:
a] Have the electrician connect circuits other than the audio circuit to the dual breaker. Use one of the full-size breakers for the audio circuit.
b] Main breaker and service maximum amperage - unless you live in an all electric home or have added some big power using toys (like hot tubs) then you probably never use 1/3 of your input rating.
c] Use heavier than required wire from the main breaker box (panel board) to a junction box at a central point in your audio room, then star out to the wall outlet boxes. Most electricians don't like larger wire because it slows them down.
d] If permitted, Romex® (Non Metallic) is a good way to go.
e] On 'Isolated Ground Systems' - they are only useful if metal conduit (flexible or ridge) or metal wall framing is involved.

hochpt21

Install scheduled for this Friday. 10/2 wire and PowerPort Classics already purchased.

Question is regarding my current power conditioner/surge protector.

I'm using a budget Furman m8x right now. It's a 15a. I would like to continue using this for the time being and my plan is to plug the B&K amp straight into one of the two wall sockets, and plug the Furman into the other for the rest of the gear.

Does anyone see an issue with that?

F1nut

No issue.

hochpt21

All set.

I've only tested in my 2-ch rig.

After spending limited time I THINK I've noticed two subtle differences. I will honestly say that this could be what I WANT to hear, but it seems like its the truth. Seems to be less distortion/more solid sound at higher volumes. And this one seems like a for-sure difference and that is more bass at all volumes. The bass thing I'm pretty sure of because I know my rig fairly well and have always been slightly dissatisfied with the bass from the 15's, so I have really paid attention to that aspect.

Not saying this gets the 15's exactly where I want them, but definitely closer.

Moose68Bash

Have you noticed any difference in the background with no music playing? That is, are you getting a "blacker" background?

hochpt21

I guess I never noticed a background before, but right now there's nothing. Dead quiet.

I'm also listening at fairly low levels right now because the kids are sleeping and seems to be a little better sounding. Again, maybe that's what I want to hear, but as long as it sounds good, its worth it to me.

leftwinger57

Above and beyond less drain on the house circuits does this (home improvement) add that much difference to your audio listening pleasure or is it one of those subjective things that one says yea I do hear a distinct improvement. This is I will guess done with a power conditioner also along the line? Does your service to the house have to be so bad in the 1st place to justify this, even in a new deveopment with new service runs above/below ground. I once said my 58 y/o garden apt. uses aluminum wire, no Romex with metal boxes. Bsides the abnormal storm, summer lightening. and someone taking out a utility pole my service has been ok for the 15 years I've lived in my place. The test I use and it's a lame one is how long has my alarm battery held up over the years. Life for my recharging 12 volt is along the lines of 4/5 years and then toss it and get a new one. Mine have lasted longer ,a good 6/7 years then they are gone. An old timer once showed me how a battery holds it's charge. Take a meter reading before and then with a screw driver short across the pos & neg lugs for a second. If it still reads 12.5 or so and retains that voltage it's still a good viable battery, if it drpos and fails to hold the charge then you have a beat battery. Now I said a second or 2 across the lugs, no longer is needed you should get a nice little spark if the battery is good.

tonyb

A better way to describe it LW is ....you don't know what your missing 'till it's gone. Line noise is one of those things we all become accustomed to, so much so that we mistaken it for something else. Harsh sounds at higher volumes, instruments in the musical stage are not well defined. Then we blame that on something else in the system.

Power conditioners can only do so much, especially the cheaper store bought brands. The better ones go about it a little differently.

hochpt21

Lew, I'm sure at my level, a more "noticeable" change could have been made by an investment in another area of my rig. Possibly a crossover upgrade to the 15's or something along those lines.

My main goal, however, was to "future-proof" my system, so that as I (hopefully) continue to upgrade, I won't ever be met with the challenge of my electrical being the limiting factor.

EndersShadow

hochpt21 wrote: »

My main goal, however, was to "future-proof" my system...

HA! No way to do that, your married which means your wallet is someone else's ...

Trust me, if my wallet were my own I'd be stocked up on ramen noodles for the next year in all different flavors... but my stereo system, yeah, it would be ROCKING!

BlueFox

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Above and beyond less drain on the house circuits does this (home improvement) add that much difference to your audio listening pleasure or is it one of those subjective things that one says yea I do hear a distinct improvement.

A dedicated 20 amp line is a MUST have, and a second line is HIGHLY recommended.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?156201-Added-second-20-amp-line-for-amps/

Tornado Red

hochpt21 wrote: »

I guess I never noticed a background before, but right now there's nothing. Dead quiet.

I'm also listening at fairly low levels right now because the kids are sleeping and seems to be a little better sounding. Again, maybe that's what I want to hear, but as long as it sounds good, its worth it to me.

I ran 2 new dedicated lines last summer, and the "blackness" you've discovered was my most prominent finding as well.

disneyjoe7

What's the issue with double breakers? Is it a possible noise from the other sister line?

rpf65

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

What's the issue with double breakers? Is it a possible noise from the other sister line?

You're about to start another debate. Best to have all single breakers in your panel in my personal opinion, if it's an option. I'll even replace large double breakers with singles, and tie the switches together, if they're available. Just have more insulation, which means less heat between the 2, and for some odd reason I think this will prolong the life of the breaker.

Jayce1971

I'm about to start the same rewiring journey. The house is 135 years old. Wiring upgrades have been done on "the cheap" throughout the years. I should have paid a bit more for a full wiring inspection prior to purchase... but live and learn, right? Found old (cracking old) 16/2 "zip" cord on several outlets in the living room! The living room is getting a full rewire with 12/3 romex. My audio/video system should pull just over 3000 watts max, so dividing up and installing 2 (20 amp) separate circuits on the "system wall", and 2 additional 20 amp circuits on the other walls. A new sub panel will run 3 runs of 10/3 to the attic, to junction boxes, and drop 12/3 into 3 bedrooms upstairs (each have 4-5k btu window a/c units). May go with a Richard Grey power conditioner for the living room a/v outlets if needed.

Glen B

While there may be some merit to the heating aspects of a "smaller" sized breaker, 1-inch and 1/2-inch breakers of the same type and rating carry identical specifications, including interrupting current rating. You would think that manufacturers have taken that into consideration. There is no lower rating for one size breaker, and higher rating for the next. Products that bear the UL mark have after all been tested and approved for use at their specified ratings. I have a few 1/2-inch breakers in my panel, and have made it a habit of checking on them periodically, especially during the warmer summer months. They do not appear to run any warmer than the 1-inch breakers.

Anyone using the now-required (1-inch) AFCI breakers is in reality using 1/2-inch breakers without even realizing it. If you ask yourself where does the AFCI detection circuitry and trip mechanism go ? The answer is that one half of the AFCI breaker case holds a 1/2 size breaker, and the other half of the case holds the circuitry and a solenoid that trips the breaker.

AFCI breaker internal views

czarodzi

We had a sub panel installed when we had a basement refinished. The Electrician used those AFCI breakers - first time I saw them, and now I get to see the inside of them. definitely not a simple device! thanks for posting those pictures.