What is DAC for?

msg

I'm just poking around a little bit looking at a headphone amp for my desk at work, and keep seeing mention of DAC. I looked it up and see that it means Digital to Analog Converter.

How does it work/what does it do?
In what situations would one employ this device?

Are there preferred brands or any to steer clear of?

hochpt21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

There tons of options. Probably, first start with your budget.

falconcry72

DACs are everywhere. You probably own 20 DACs. There is a DAC in your phone, your car stereo, your CD player, DVD player, BluRay, receiver, ipod, ipad, PC, Mac, laptop, etc.

Generally, anytime you play a digital audio file (CD, DVD, BluRay, Mp3, FLAC, etc.), it has to be converted to analog at some point before it hits the speakers. Generally, a standalone, separate box that is a DAC will be a better sounding DAC than the one that's in your phone.

Using a CD player hooked up straight to an analog preamp still uses a DAC; it just uses the internal DAC inside of the CD player as opposed to an external DAC that is its own box.

halo71

^sig material! lol

Thorton

DSkip wrote: »

DAC is a 3 letter word that makes audiophiles feel better about themselves. Get one, you'll feel beter.

You’re right. I have one, I do feel better and it does sound better!

BlueFox

falconcry72 wrote: »

Using a CD player hooked up straight to an analog preamp still uses a DAC; it just uses the internal DAC inside of the CD player as opposed to an external DAC that is its own box.

Yes, and because it is internal you cannot upgrade it for a better DAC. One of the arguments made for separate components versus one do everything component is to allow upgrades.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I no longer require a DAC when listening to digital audio. DACs are for pansies. I AM DAC!!!

I have trained my ears to be able to accept a digital signal directly and translate those 1s and 0s into an analog waveform, this way I don't have a piece of equipment holding me back. Since I'm able to translate the digital signal with 100% accuracy in real time with zero latency I produce bit-perfect with zero jitter and no clock issues. I can also reproduce this perfectly converted sound verbally, so that others around me can enjoy this perfection as well.

You guys coming to Skips next weekend are in for a treat. Screw the Oppo 105, I threw that POS away last week, I'm just bringing myself.

txcoastal1

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I no longer require a DAC when listening to digital audio. DACs are for pansies. I AM DAC!!!

I have trained my ears to be able to accept a digital signal directly and translate those 1s and 0s into an analog waveform, this way I don't have a piece of equipment holding me back. Since I'm able to translate the digital signal with 100% accuracy in real time with zero latency I produce bit-perfect with zero jitter and no clock issues. I can also reproduce this perfectly converted sound verbally, so that others around me can enjoy this perfection as well.

You guys coming to Skips next weekend are in for a treat. Screw the Oppo 105, I threw that POS away last week, I'm just bringing myself.

F#*King classic, I don't want to know which end the cables plug into...see ya next week, or hear ya next week, uhh or whatever

falconcry72

txcoastal1 wrote: »

...I don't want to know which end the cables plug into...

hmm, may sound ...cough... muddy, depending.

Indyaudio2

These days, you can snag one for under $30 just to try it out. FIIO from Parts Express. I have one and it's a nice little unit that let me feed signal from my CDR to more than one amplifier. Also have an Arcam rDac but was much more expensive and it's the heart of my system allowing me to feed my digital music server to it via Toslink optical cable. Read up, plenty out there, get one.

msg

how would you describe the sound difference?
I'd love to have a listen for myself.

Indyaudio2

msg wrote: »

how would you describe the sound difference?
I'd love to have a listen for myself.

I have them in 2 different systems, so side by side comparison isn't possible. I'd spend $30 and try it for yourself. FIIO DO3K, nice little package for the price.

msg

I mean comparison of using DAC and not using DAC.

headrott

Technically you ae using a DAC even when you aren't using a "DAC". Now, let me clarify....... There is a DAC (as mentioned before) in every piece of equipment you own that plays files in a digital format. You can also purchase a seperate stand alone DAC and/or a transport (or file server) that sends the digital signal to the stand alone DAC to convert the CD/SACD/file to analog so you canlisten to it.

So, many people think that buying a seperate stand alone DAC and transport (or file server) sounds better than an all-in-one CD player (if we are talking 2 channel). I would be one of those, but will say that it absolutely depends on the all-in-one CD player you are using and the stand alone DAC and transport (or music server) you are uing. Tha is, if you buy a CD player with low quality parts and listen, and then purchase a high quality DAC and transport and listen; it will become obvious how much better the stand a lone DAC and transport are.

Alternatively, if you buy a high quality all-in-ine CD player (meaning the transport and DAC are in the same case) and listen and then purchase a low quality DAC and transport and listen. It will become obvious how much better the all-in-one CD player is than the seperate DAC and transport.

The moral of the story is: either buy a very high quality all-in-one CD/SACD player OR buy a very high quality stand alone DAC and transport.

Either way, you are using a DAC.

msg

thanks for that explanation. I do understand what you're saying about DAC being all around. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's pretty obvious after you point it out.

I am just trying to get a sense of what, exactly, users of quality DAC pieces are experiencing. how would you describe the effect on your music? is DAC a sort of "media expander"? I have a mode like this on the Alpine deck in my vehicle. I would relate its use to something like direct mode when off vs some sort of processed mode when on. Can you use it with any source? For instance, a Squeezebox?

tygr1955

I ordered one two days ago that has a USB in to plug in my laptop and go out to my system to play Pandora (or other streaming music files). It is supposed to really raise the sound quality.

Also, the one I ordered has a tube buffer in it which can be changed out for other tubes to vary the sound to your liking. It is the Aune T1 DAC and headphone amp and cost all of $149.00 on the Bay.

I can't wait to get it and start playing my streaming music through it.

msg

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I no longer require a DAC when listening to digital audio. DACs are for pansies. I AM DAC!!!

I have trained my ears to be able to accept a digital signal directly and translate those 1s and 0s into an analog waveform, this way I don't have a piece of equipment holding me back. Since I'm able to translate the digital signal with 100% accuracy in real time with zero latency I produce bit-perfect with zero jitter and no clock issues. I can also reproduce this perfectly converted sound verbally, so that others around me can enjoy this perfection as well.

You guys coming to Skips next weekend are in for a treat. Screw the Oppo 105, I threw that POS away last week, I'm just bringing myself.

threw the Oppo 105 away?!? surely you jest! I just started reading about this thing. I thought it was supposed to be the be-all-end-all BDP/DAC device?!?

tygr1955 wrote: »

I ordered one two days ago that has a USB in to plug in my laptop and go out to my system to play Pandora (or other streaming music files). It is supposed to really raise the sound quality.

Also, the one I ordered has a tube buffer in it which can be changed out for other tubes to vary the sound to your liking. It is the Aune T1 DAC and headphone amp and cost all of $149.00 on the Bay.

I can't wait to get it and start playing my streaming music through it.

nice! looking forward to reading a post with your impressions on this. this is very similar to how I'd like to use it.
I think this is similar to what Assimilated mentioned on my headphone amp thread.

Toolfan66

I'm a DAC 2

headrott

msg wrote: »

thanks for that explanation. I do understand what you're saying about DAC being all around. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's pretty obvious after you point it out.

I am just trying to get a sense of what, exactly, users of quality DAC pieces are experiencing. how would you describe the effect on your music? is DAC a sort of "media expander"? I have a mode like this on the Alpine deck in my vehicle. I would relate its use to something like direct mode when off vs some sort of processed mode when on. Can you use it with any source? For instance, a Squeezebox?

I am using a self made DAC based upon the Twisted Pear Buffalo II (DAC). The Buffalo II uses the ESS Sabre 32 (ES9018) DAC chip. I sent the analog signal out to the tube based Tube-I-Zator analog output stage. I am currenly using 1 RCA blackplate 5751 tube and 1 Tesla E83CC tube per channel instead of the Telefunken tubes. I have also installed an RJ45 jack and hooked up my modified Denon DVD-5910 (also placed an RJ45 jack and wired miniscule wires to "tap points" to tap the DSD signal in its raw form) to send this raw DSD to the DAC to get excellent sounding SACD (DSD) decoding. Below is the link to the DAC:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?119264-Fully-balanced-Buffalo-II-DAC-with-Tube-I-zator-tube-output.

I also bought a transport for PCM (CD) playback which is a Theta Jade.

I have to say that the combination of these 3 transport/DAC combinations is better than any CD player I have had. The imaging, detail, frequency response, clarity and all aspects of the audio improved!

A DAC is potentially a "media expander" depending on what inputs and what file types you are trying to decode with the DAC. Not all DACs have all kinds of inputs types and not all DACs can decode all types of file types. There are some DACs that can accept and decode most (all??) file types and has most (all?) input jack types.

I do not own or use any "music servers" myself so someone else may be able to answer more accurately than I, but if you get a DAC with an input type that is the same output type that the squeezebox has,you can send most file types from the squeezebox to the DAC you buy.

I am in the camp that digital "files" such as WAV, FLAC,WMA (lossless), etc. are all copied, recopied and recopied leading to degredation of the file. (I **KNOW** there will be some saying that the files are copied "bit perfect" and other such nonsense, but IMO and to my ears, I can hear the difference in a file copied 10 times and a file copied once). IMO, I do not recommend digital music servers as a "source" as the files you play may have degredation and will not sound as good (even if the files are uncompressed). Plus, when you own a CD/SACD you own a physical media and the artwork that goes with it. You are also able to re-sell the media.

I hope this helps you out.

msg

headrott wrote: »

I am using a self made DAC based upon the Twisted Pear Buffalo II (DAC). The Buffalo II uses the ESS Sabre 32 (ES9018) DAC chip. I sent the analog signal out to the tube based Tube-I-Zator analog output stage. I am currenly using 1 RCA blackplate 5751 tube and 1 Tesla E83CC tube per channel instead of the Telefunken tubes. I have also installed an RJ45 jack and hooked up my modified Denon DVD-5910 (also placed an RJ45 jack and wired miniscule wires to "tap points" to tap the DSD signal in its raw form) to send this raw DSD to the DAC to get excellent sounding SACD (DSD) decoding. Below is the link to the DAC:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?119264-Fully-balanced-Buffalo-II-DAC-with-Tube-I-zator-tube-output.

I also bought a transport for PCM (CD) playback which is a Theta Jade.

I have to say that the combination of these 3 transport/DAC combinations is better than any CD player I have had. The imaging, detail, frequency response, clarity and all aspects of the audio improved!

A DAC is potentially a "media expander" depending on what inputs and what file types you are trying to decode with the DAC. Not all DACs have all kinds of inputs types and not all DACs can decode all types of file types. There are some DACs that can accept and decode most (all??) file types and has most (all?) input jack types.

I do not own or use any "music servers" myself so someone else may be able to answer more accurately than I, but if you get a DAC with an input type that is the same output type that the squeezebox has,you can send most file types from the squeezebox to the DAC you buy.

I am in the camp that digital "files" such as WAV, FLAC,WMA (lossless), etc. are all copied, recopied and recopied leading to degredation of the file. (I **KNOW** there will be some saying that the files are copied "bit perfect" and other such nonsense, but IMO and to my ears, I can hear the difference in a file copied 10 times and a file copied once). IMO, I do not recommend digital music servers as a "source" as the files you play may have degredation and will not sound as good (even if the files are uncompressed). Plus, when you own a CD/SACD you own a physical media and the artwork that goes with it. You are also able to re-sell the media.

I hope this helps you out.

yes, very helpful, and that's a really cool unit you've built! I just subscribed to your build thread. once I learn to solder more efficiently, I might play around with builds and mods. right now most of my work looks like I just broke a bunch of thermometers filled with dirty mercury.

your DAC sounds pretty clean and solid.
am I understanding correctly that you built your own chassis and installed all of these components separately?
you just added the transports you wanted?
I recognized that ESS Sabre 32 from other reading. that's what Oppo's using, I think, and come to read, lots of other people. I'd like to read up some more on the Buffalo II to get a better understanding of what your mods are about. all a bit over my head right now. so this DAC outputs to tube before hitting your amp and speakers? and these transports are all simply stages that you wanted out of the DAC?

I have to say that the combination of these 3 transport/DAC combinations is better than any CD player I have had. The imaging, detail, frequency response, clarity and all aspects of the audio improved!

I don't have enough experience to fully understand each of these terms. the best I can describe what I look for is a fullness, richness and warmth to the music. is that what you're describing?

leftwinger57

With my simple mind I get that all devices these days have some form of DAC. now does adding a Dac to a cdp that already is using it as a built in see it as an adversarial device or more of just improving blood flow from a clogged vein.As you see I do have trouble w/ this concept also not to mention I just got up.I get the fact that all you guys are right when you say most all devices have them and here's my proof.My Yamaha rx-v665 in bold letters says that zone 2 is analog only and will not take digital devices. Well I played radio and tyied my other sources through and then my i-pod went right into my bedroom JBLs.I called Yamaha and asked what's up a i-pod must be the most digital device out there and it's coming through zone 2 loud and clear and then they said something to the fact that it was being filtered through the 665's internal DAC.Not CDs, tuner/radio yes.Since I rarely use use zn 2 and all my bases are covered in the front room this "improvement" as you guys say will not be at this house any time soon.

tonyb

MMMM....Donuts. lol

Guys, look up some threads as we've discussed dacs to death. The dac chip alone is not the sole reason a dac sounds as it does. Just like speakers that don't sound the same if they used identical drivers. Much more goes into it than a simple dac chip.