DAC/Preamp Combos

falconcry72
falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
edited January 2014 in 2 Channel Audio
Are there any DAC/Preamp combos out there that sound better than equivalently priced separate DACs and Preamps? I see the potential for a $3k combo to sound better than a $1.5k DAC + $1.5k preamp, but it doesn't seem like it exists? What say you?
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited January 2014
    You're wanting both analog and digital inputs?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited January 2014
    W4S has one, also the Parasound P5 has a dac, just off the top of my head.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited January 2014
    Classe makes one, but you need to go to their web-site for the model number.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited January 2014
    Benchmark HDR
    Mac c48 or c50
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You're wanting both analog and digital inputs?

    Good question. Analog inputs would be nice but not necessary.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    tonyb wrote: »
    W4S has one, also the Parasound P5 has a dac, just off the top of my head.

    I like the DAC2, and while at $1500 it probably does sound better than many $750 DAC + $750 combos out there, it does not sound better than my Audio GD NFB-7 + Audio Research LS-15 combo, which it shouldn't.

    I'll look up the P5.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Classe makes one, but you need to go to their web-site for the model number.

    hmm I bet Classe's offering is nice. I'll check it out.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    brianle wrote: »
    Benchmark HDR
    Mac c48 or c50

    The HDR ain't gonna do it for me. I'll look into the Mac's. Thanks.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    DSkip wrote: »
    ...I think the implementation of a preamp with a DAC is much different than that of a DAC with a preamp function, and I'd imagine the former to probably be a better design overall.

    Don't care either way as long as it sounds better.
    DSkip wrote: »
    ...Its getting to the point though that, unless you're using vinyl or another pure analog source, a DAC/pre combo is the way to go. I don't think its quite there yet, but I can see a day in the not so distant future that it will become the new standard.

    I feel the same way, and like you, I'm not sure it exists yet. If it does exist though, I want to try it out.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    To make it more specific, I'm looking for a DAC/Pre or Pre/DAC that can best my Audio GD NFB-7 DAC + ARC LS-15 Preamp combo for $3k on the used market.


    Antelope Zodiac?

    PS Audio PerfectWave?
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited January 2014
    Beating the arc isn't going to be easy.
    I say stay where you are or just upgrade the DAC.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited January 2014
    Peachtree Grand Pre??
    Its no longer in production and could be had for fairly cheap....maybe.
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Beating the arc isn't going to be easy.
    I say stay where you are or just upgrade the DAC.

    You are probably right. I was hoping that going the combo route would allow me to upgrade without spending money... wishful thinking. DAC might be the weak link.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited January 2014
    The ps audio perfect wave dacs are garbage preamps, the only way to get away with it in that function is to use a tube amp with it. I did the ps audio with wyred 4 sound, rotel 1552 , Anthem and krell all with top notch wiring and it still fell...... flat
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited January 2014
    Might a lightly used Oppo 105 Modwright version work?

    http://www.modwright.com/modifications/oppo-bdp83-and-bdp83se-mod.php

    It's late, really late (for me) . . . so I haven't read the entire thread . . .forgive me if I over looked stuff
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
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  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited January 2014
    NAD has their direct digital stuff. No DAC needed, digital all the way to the amp.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited January 2014
    +1 on the Peachtree Grand Pre- http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fejN9SLRcny/p_731GRPREX1/Peachtree-Audio-Grand-Pre-X-1.html
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    B Run wrote: »
    +1 on the Peachtree Grand Pre- http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fejN9SLRcny/p_731GRPREX1/Peachtree-Audio-Grand-Pre-X-1.html

    ...looks tasty...
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Classe makes one, but you need to go to their web-site for the model number.

    It's the CP-800, and it also looks very tasty...

    Too bad the front panel A-Type USB input is only for ipods and not external thumb drives/hard drives.... that would have made it a very versatile machine.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited January 2014
    I have used both a Benchmark DAC1 base model and my BM DAC/PRE in the preamp role, and both far outperformed any stand alone preamp I've ever owned (Keep in mind the Placette is passive linestage, so it gets a pass). The DAC1 USB, DAC/PRE, and HDR (as well as the new DAC2 series) all have 1 analog input in case you get vinyl fever. FWIW, Stereophile's remarks on the BM's performance in preamp mode was "It doesn't get much better than this...."
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    One thing that seems common for most DAC/Preamp combos at this time is that they do not offer real tube preamp sections. The peachtree has a tube buffer, but that's not the same as true tube output. This makes me think that if I went this route, I may want to look into replacing my SS power amp with a tube power amp or tube monos.

    Is it likely that I can find a used tube power amp, or monos, that can best my VK-500 for under 2k?
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited January 2014
    You have a really nice rig, why the change?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You have a really nice rig, why the change?

    I like to experiment. I've had this preamp for a couple years now, which is a long time for me :)
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    It looks like McIntosh makes several preamps with digital inputs, one is full tube too... the C2500, but they're probably outside my price range. I also question the up-to-dateness of the digital sections of the Mac gear, not sure why though... probably because they don't go into much detail on their website.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited January 2014
    You can keep your ls15 and go with eastern electric minimax tube dac ....
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited January 2014
    Besting the Bat amp is going to be tough. I know Ted, RT1...was on the same path with the Bat 500 amp and wound up with Wolcott power amps.

    Maybe the Musical Fidelity integrated, a1008 that Troy is using. Amp/pre/dac.....though I'm not so sure on the quality of the dac they threw in. Probably could do better imho. But with all the money saved, you could easily pick up a great dac.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2014
    I think it's best to stick with the separates and upgrade one unit at a time.

    The Preamp with DAC integrated won't be anywhere closer to the separates even if you spend more than what you like.

    PS Audio, Meridian, Classe, and Sim Audio (I think) all made some kind of Preamp, DAC combo.

    But heck, let's don't forget the E M O T I C R A P made one too. :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    megasat16 wrote: »
    I think it's best to stick with the separates and upgrade one unit at a time.

    That may be true for most of what's available now, but it seems like a DAC/Pre combo has the potential to sound better, given the elimination of cables and conversions to SPDIF etc.


    I really like that Classe piece ... I'm thinking that thing straight to a pair of tube monos would be pretty sweet.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited January 2014
    NAD M12

    http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-refreshed
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited January 2014
    brianle wrote: »
    NAD M12

    http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-refreshed

    Nice.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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