RTi8 or Monitor 75t

ez101

Hi everyone, I'm new here and am just looking for some help deciding between these two. RTi8's I picked up a pair at Fry's sunday, but I'm also looking at the 75T's online. The RTi8's are $44 less for the pair than the 75t. I have a basic understanding that these are from two different product lines. Anyway, i'm going to be using them as my Front speakers in a 5.1 / 7.1 set up. keeping the existing sub and small speakers from an Infinity home theater in a box set up. The HTIAB was purchased a couple years ago along with the receiver I am using - Yamaha RX-V567. My room is rectangular shaped and high ceiling 15 x 25.

I primarily watch movies - DVD's mostly, occasionally streaming on fios tv. However, i DO like to listen to music when I get a wild hair or have guests. I really like dance / club music. I noticed that the receiver has a cross over - when I set it down to 40 the bass isn't as good as it is at 60 or 80HZ. I was a little dissapointed by this as the speakers say they go down to 30HZ. I was hoping for more bass from them. Now, I have read that they may need more power - but I'm not going to be purchasing anything else, except perhaps a center channel for the next several months. This is sort of an impulse buy that I really don't HAVE to make since I blew it out on my kids for Xmas, but oh well.

I noticed that the 75t's have 4 6.5 drivers rather than 2 on the RTi8, so the obvious choice to me seems to go with the newer model 75t with the tweeter and 4 drivers. Are these drivers and tweeter the same in both speakers? Looking at specs looks like either speaker goes down to 30HZ with the RTi8 going up to 27KHZ vs 75t 25khz. Their appearance isn't as important to me. I want the best possible sound for movies and music when I have a party.

I am sure that either pair will be a huge upgrade for me over what I have been used to, but I am just not sure which to grab.

the receiver specs are showing to be 90w x7... By the way... on the back of the unit, the surround back posts .... they say surround back / bi-amp. if I want to run 5.1 can I use these connectors to bi-amp my new front speakers? Not sure how to do that, but maybe that solves my potential power problem?

mr2686

The RTI line is a step up from the monitors. When I was looking for speakers I was debating between the RTI8's and the Monitor 70/75T's, and I got some great advice from several people that own the monitors. Every one of them told me to get in to the RTI line...and I'll be forever grateful. With that said, you will be fine with your receiver but a good sub is a must. I would also set the xover at 80 and speakers set to small. I have the RTI8's and love them.

ez101

Thanks 2686,,, I know they are a step up. but it is not clear to me why. Also wondering - are drives the same on these two specific pairs b/c the specs look very close to the same. Also, I know some may chuckle, but wouldn't I be better off with 4 6.5 drivers than 2? any other comments are most appreciated! also, will the bi-amp feature on my receiver work with the new fronts?

mr2686

ez101 wrote: »

Thanks 2686,,, I know they are a step up. but it is not clear to me why. Also wondering - are drives the same on these two specific pairs b/c the specs look very close to the same. Also, I know some may chuckle, but wouldn't I be better off with 4 6.5 drivers than 2? any other comments are most appreciated! also, will the bi-amp feature on my receiver work with the new fronts?

More is not necessarily better. Quality counts first and foremost. If you look at the specs, there's a bit of a difference...tweeter on rti8 is silk, 75t is silk/poly, etc etc. Overall sound is different. Will probably get more bass from 75t's, but since most people run their system with a Sub, better to have the quality mids and highs from your speakers.
If I were you, I'd go ahead and set up the 8's and see how you like them. You can always find the Monitors on sale, and by the way, the Monitor 70's are basically the same speaker as the 75T as far as sound goes and can usually be found a bit cheaper.
Last but not least, bi-amping is a waste. Check out the AVS forum and search for bi-amping and you'll get quite the education.

ez101

I did set up the RTi8's. I watched Avatar which is 5.1 DTS. Heard things I. Ever new were there. I listened to the style of music I like and it was not what I hoped for, but sounded good. Seems like a large speaker like that which is rated down to 30hz would provide more bass- perhaps not enough power but I am not buying another amp or receiver for a while. I saw some infinity Primus towers on sale as well maybe I will get them in here for a comparison.

I need a center channel... Or at least I have heard that center is very important. Am looking at Polk CS2 or 15C.

PolishDude

I don't think they can go that low with authority, get a nice sub...problem solved. Also for the RTi, isn't a CSi5 center a better match than the CS2 or 15C?

fun_dador

It would complement it with a csi3 better....

ez101

Ok thanks for the responses. I have the front's set up and haven't had much time to really listen to them after my movie the other night. But this weekend I'll have a long weekend and will try them out with the CSi3 which just went on sale at Fry's for $88. I did find a few threads where people were saying get the CSi5, but: A. Not on sale, B. I have a cabinet my TV sits on that has limited space for a center channel. I don't want the speaker sitting on top of it in front of the TV. I guess I could hang it on the wall, but seems like that would be funny looking too. I'm sure it's going to be a huge upgrade compared to what I have, but we'll see. where would I find the actual dimensions of the CSi3? Also, FYI, the RTi12's are on sale at Fry's this weekend and so are the RTi8's. The 8's are even less than I paid last weekend so I'm contemplating returning and re purchasing the 8's when I get my center channel today. Any last minute observations or suggestions would be great. Especially if anyone thinks the 12's are so much better I should talk myself into basically doubling my expense to get them over the 8's. Money's not tight, but this is an impulse buy. Thanks

Hermitism

ez101 wrote: »

where would I find the actual dimensions of the CSi3?

Height: 6 7/8" (17.46cm)
Width: 20" (50.80cm)
Depth: 9 1/4" (23.50cm)

http://www.polkaudio.com/products/csi3

Hermitism

CSi5

Height: 7 11/16" (19.53cm)
Width: 24" (60.96cm)
Depth: 14 1/2" (36.83cm)

Hermitism

I have the RTi8's with a CSi3. I'm powering mine with a Pio SC-05. The RTi8's are as high up the chain as I'd go in the RTi line without running an amp. And I'm sure most members here will still recommend you step up your AVR. You've got to have a powered sub with the Rti8's if you are using them for HT.

ez101

Hermit, thank you for posting the dimensions. I can't fit even the CSi3's in the cabinet I have. only 16" width is available. In this situation, should I look for another speaker that is smaller, or just deal with the fact that I will have to place the center someplace outside the cabinet? I'll go ahead and pick up the CSi3 today and see what it is like, but according the the depth I think the only thing I could do is just place it directly in front of the TV.

As for the RTi8's... I'm not going to buy an amp anytime soon, if ever. I would probably upgrade my surround speakers or the sub before replacing the receiver. The sub does have it's own power, but it is part of a HTIAB along with the surrounds I have. Currrently i'm just running a 5.1 setup until I figure out the best way to move what I previously had as front to side placement. the ones in the rear of the room (rectangular shape) are still in the back corners and elevated to 8 feet. I turned them up in my avr control so I can hear them better, but I know there's much better out there. I would probably use small speakers and elevate them as well rather than using any floor speakers in the rear. As for side channel, they also would be elevated and smaller as well. So, no matter what I buy, I'll be using floors for front and small, elevated speakers for side and back.

So, for priority what would you suggest - assuming I am not purchasing an amp or receiver and want to incorporate the small speakers I have left over from the HTIAB.

Center > Surround (Rear, still running 5.1) > Sub > Receiver > Side Channels (Keeping my small ones for the 7.1 Rear)

Is there much use of 7.1 or 7.2 these days? I haven't kept up, so I don't know. I just know when I purchased the receiver a few years ago, there wasn't much if any 7.1 out on DVDs at the time.

I can't swing upgrading everything at this time.

Hermitism

Actually I'd avoid going with seven channels and would stick with five. Seven channels will just take more power away from your AVR. The more channels you use on that AVR, the less wpc it can provide. The general rule around here is never turn your volume control up past 50% to avoid clipping. If you have to turn it up higher, then you don't have a powerful enough amp. FYI: Those speakers are going to sound bright underpowered, especially when listening to music. AVR manufacturers are known for "cheating" when listing the specs for WPC, so just assume your AVR is less powerful than you think.

Yep, those are some big center channels. I had to move my TV up 2 inches to get the CSi3 to fit, I'd love to try the CSi5 (they are supposed to have better mid range) but I'd have to raise my TV again and it's already higher than I'd like it. I hate when people mount their TV's too high. I like for them to be at eye level or just slightly higher, personally. I'd stick with the CSi3, if you get a different/smaller type of center channel it will no longer be timbre matched with the RTi8's. Some people mix and match their speakers and don't have a problem with it not being timbre matched. Since I have the RTi8 and CSi3, I can tell you from experience that they sound great together.

To answer your question about 7.1 or 7.2, it just refers to the number of sub outputs the unit has. My AVR is a 7.1 but I'm just using a splitter and running two subs. I'm also running mine with five channels, not seven.

As far as priority, I'd say your choice for your center channel is more important than worrying about your surrounds.

Also, you mentioned bi-amping in your first post. Before I came here, I had heard the term bi-amping many times. But after joining this forum I learned that it's just marketing hype. You can't bi-amp using an AVR because of the shared power supply. The current is just as important as the watts.

Hermitism

I just looked at your AVR specs. Remember what I said about cheating on the specs. You AVR is rated at 90watts 1 channel driven. That's really going to be underpowered.

ez101

Hermit, thanks for the very helpful comments! I'm picking up the center channel this evening and I'm sure I'll be pleased. However, now I'm feeling a little miffed about the receiver. I never realized the way they advertise the watts per channel. How do I know what I am actually getting? For example, how will I know when I'm looking at a new receiver, what the true power rating is and whether or not it will properly power my speakers?

The RTi8's say they are 20-250W

I have also been thinking I'd just stay with 5.1, but I guess they don't offer 5.1 systems with higher end features and power do they? Seems like everything I see advertised is 7.1, 7.2, or 9.2. Some say 2 CH driven....


So, if it is listed as 125W 2ch driven, what does that mean the speakers are getting if I'm actually running Center, 2 Front, 2 Sides?

If I buy a receiver, do I need to get a THX certified? if there's an article about what all these certifications mean, help me out with a link!

Based on the priority you gave, after I get the center, is my next order of business to replace the receiver (biggest improvement for the buck) or replace sub?

I hope I don't mess up my speakers. The receiver goes from -70% up to 10%. Usually when I'm watching a movie or listening to music I have it set to -15% or so. Based on your comments, I am concerned that I am pushing the receiver too hard or could damage speakers. There have been occasions in the past when I'd have the sound up to -10% while watching a movie and using the HTIAB speakers, that during a moment of heavy action / sound the system would power off. Guessing that is no bueno! I have not beeen turning volume up that high, or needed to since adding the RTi8's.


Thanks!

drummer86

Sub will be most noticeable improvement. It'll also take a lot of load off your receiver.

Hermitism

As long as you don't turn the volume up too high, you won't hurt the speakers. You always want clean power. Clipping happens when an amplifier is overdriven and attempts to deliver an output voltage/current beyond its maximum capability. That can be damaging. More speakers are damaged by having not enough power, than too much power. I didn't know that before I came here. I just wanted to mention it because I saw the specs on your AVR. Those little all-in-one satellite HT speaker systems don't need the power that the bigger speakers do. I originally used an entry level Denon for a couple of days with those RTi8's and they didn't sound nearly as good as they do with the more powerful AVR. I didn't realize that a good amp can make speakers sound better even at lower volume. I originally thought amps were all about being able to play it louder. I'm sure someone here will recommend how high you should be able to go on the volume dial with the AVR you have now. I've never taken mine higher than -20, but mine is set up in a room smaller than yours.

Supposedly the Pioneer Elite SC AVR models have the truest WPC specs from what the members say here. The problem is the Pio Elite AVR's are expensive. I bought mine used for that very reason. If you did decide to buy an AVR or amp later on down the road, they all have unique sound characteristics. RTi/RTiA speakers are made for HT and are on the bright side, so you don't want to pair it with an AVR or amp that is also known to be bright. People around here recommend Parasound or B&K amps for RTI speakers. Takes that edge off those higher frequencies without losing detail.

If you don't listen to music/movies at high volume or if you live in an apartment where high volume isn't an option, you might like what you already have. When I first came here, I thought I was asking smart and original questions. After I got all my questions answered I decided to stick around and noticed that every couple of weeks someone would be asking the same questions I asked. So if you ask a question and someone answers you and their answer seems extremely direct, don't mistake it for rudeness. Some of these members have been answering the same questions over and over again for years and it can be tiresome. There's alot of nice people around here that are willing to help.

When I had heard so much about bi-amping and then came here and saw countless number of thread-titles regarding bi-amping, I thought there must be something to this bi-amping thing. Then when I brought it up, I was set straight. I had never actually read those threads, I just read the title. Each thread contained someone asking about bi-amping. True bi-amping, the only kind worth doing, requires separate amps and active crossovers.

cnh

There are certainly differences in the materials use in tweeters in the M series and Rtis, but as far as the fabric itself that's NOT the MAIN difference. It's more associated with the magnet assemblies, heat dissipation, crossovers, etc.

The tweets on the Rti can handle more power and sound BRIGHTER. They are not necessarily MORE pleasing for music that whan you'll find in the M-70s. I prefer the M-70s to the Rti-8s or A5s for music, in fact. But for HT, sure go Rti.

In general I am not a huge fan of any of the Rtis except for the TOTL towers [Rit-12, Rti-A9] which tame that high end better than the lower towers do, (cascade crossovers, more midrange from the D'apolito array, etc.).

But if your primary concern is HT, sure Rti-8s over M-70s, they will be brighter and a little faster so it's best to pair them with "warmer" amplification. A lot of AVRs don't like Rtis, make them sound too "sharp" IMO.

Just thought I'd offer a different opinion. I heard the 8s and went M-70s instead.

No one here can "really" comment on the new TSx series which seem to be the M series replacement? Because we have NOT heard those. The specs make it seem like that TSx550ts will play LOWER than the Rti-8s. There is a 4 db difference in the specs. And 4 db is a hearable difference. Does that mean that their bass is "better"? Who knows, I haven't heard them and the bigger drivers may just be sloppy.

Having played contrarian, I am mostly in agreement with everyone above for HT! Let me give one final example. I have some Rti-4s and Rti-A3s (bookies) I use in a HT config. But I also have a set of Energy RC-10 bookies and the Energys wipe the floor with both Rtis for both music and HT. Of course the Energys were 500-550 a pair MSRP originally.

Polk should REALLY revisit the Rti series and update it, make it LESS bright, MORE musical and give it better imaging and sound stage. The RC-10s are better in EVERY one of those categories and they're not even the best in their class?

cnh