7.1 - asymmetrical rear speaker setup question.

mxms

I'm planning to order the following for my 7.1 setup:

RTiA7 pair, CSiA6, RTiA3 pair (rears), FXiA4 pair(surround backs)

The front stage is pretty standard. For the rear stage, I've been trying some combinations to make it work for my space. The way I've placed my speakers currently is:

- Surround backs are behind the sofa (approximately on either side) which is very close to the back wall. This is where I plan to put in the FXiA4 to create a more diffused sound field behind.

- As for the rear speakers, I have them on either side of the sofa and they point to each other. This is where the RTiA3s will go.

This setup is something I am happy with, well aware that it is not ideal given the distance from the back wall, etc.
I've attached a photograph as well with the current temporary setup.

My problem is that the rear speakers (the ones facing each other) cannot be symmetrical. The one on the right is right by the sofa. The one on the left much further away as apparent in the attached photographs. I just cannot block the walkway and so I have to place the speaker on the far end of it.

I'm currently using a Pioneer VSX-1123-K (which I will upgrade at some future date) and it does provide MCACC configuration, speaker distance setup etc. so yes, I can configure whatever compensation is required for the placement.

My question: Is the asymmetric setup going to be a problem? Do any of you have a speaker far out somewhere that is still able to contribute?

Also, given the wall I have behind the sofa, is there another configuration I should try?

Here are photos of the rear:

&

pogo

You and I have similar problems with the rears being asymmetrical. Not quite as extreme as yours but similar. I'm not familiar with Pioneer gear but assuming you have an optimizer mic for doing room measurements run that first and then fine tune it to your liking if need be (assuming your amp can do that). The only thing I did after running the optimizer was run the test tone to balance the volume level a little closer to my my liking (I felt the left side needed a bit more volume). I'm happy with the results.

John K.

MX, welcome to Club Polk. As to the side surround RTiA3 speakers not being equidistant from the listening position, that shouldn't create a significant problem. The auto-calibration feature of your Pioneer(or any other with a similar feature)will adjust both the volume levels and delay times to compensate for the distance difference.

The proximity of the back surround speakers, as you already recognize, minimizes the contribution that they can make to creating a rear sound field. It's suggested that they be at least 4' behind the listening position. If this isn't feasible in the room it's questionable if spending the money to go from 5.1 to 7.1 is justifiable.

seabeerob213

would he be better served running front highs? can you use a mount that will hang the RTiA3 from the ceiling, and then angle them down towards your listening position?

badchad

seabeerob213 wrote: »

would he be better served running front highs? can you use a mount that will hang the RTiA3 from the ceiling, and then angle them down towards your listening position?

This is sort of what I do. I use my RTi4's as rear surrounds and they are hung very near the ceiling, pointing downwards toward the listening position. I use my FXi's as "side" surrounds (as opposed to rear surrounds).

mufsoman

Not so sure that setup is good for 7.1 with the couch up against the back wall. My 2 cents is to use a 5.1 setup. Use the calibration of the Pioneer as initial setup, but tweak the channel levels to get the non-symetrical surround speaker to your liking. My speaker placement is symetrical, but I always end up tweaking the side and back surround channel levels so they run a bit hotter than the MCACC settings, just because I like to hear them more. The direct firing RtiA3's may be better than the Fxi4 with the large open area in the left corner. That's part of the fun though, experimentation.... Welcome to the forum mxms!

mxms

It sure has been a while, but I wanted to come back and say thanks for all your inputs. I did eventually purchase all the speakers I had mentioned and set them up as well (except they are all mounted up on the walls now rather than being kept the way I had in the original photos). You were right in that the MCACC did a great job adjusting the rear left speaker in a way that it was no problem at all. As suggested, I was then able to manually override it a bit so it sounded just right in moves and the asymmetrical-ness makes no difference anymore.

Additionally, even with the sofa right up against the back wall, the FXia4s (which are now mounted above) do make a difference! The sounds does feel enveloping, like the rainfall in the latest Rambo for example. I was doubtful for a long time, but decided to pull the trigger and I'm glad I did I'm certain they would sound MUCH better if I was able to have some space to place them properly, but I'm glad I went to 7.1 after all.

Some updated photographs are attached. I've been using these speakers for a while and they are fantastic for the kind of room I have. It was quite a process getting the wires in through the roof (with no attic - its a condo) to get the speakers where they are, and building a frame for the screen.

It does make me cringe a little bit that the front left is propped next a 90 degree bend in the wall, but there isn't much I can do about it in order to fit the screen when deployed. The MCACC has been great in adjusting the levels for that too.

badchad wrote: »

seabeerob213 wrote: »

would he be better served running front highs? can you use a mount that will hang the RTiA3 from the ceiling, and then angle them down towards your listening position?

This is sort of what I do. I use my RTi4's as rear surrounds and they are hung very near the ceiling, pointing downwards toward the listening position. I use my FXi's as "side" surrounds (as opposed to rear surrounds).

This is a good idea, and I considered it, but given how directly above the couch they speakers will be, I'd have to make the RTiA3's literally pointing down 90 degrees

Now for a follow up question:
I'm very happy with the surrounds, but I'm not convinced the VSX-1123K is driving the front LRC speakers at the quality they can reach. As you can see by the space, I am not after loudness. I sometimes feel the lack of clarity in movie dialogues and even while playing 2ch music. Should I use the VSX-1123K front pre-outs for an external amp? Or possibly upgrade the receiver? Specifically, does the amp only help drive more power for louder listening (something I don't need) or will it truly improve sound quality at moderate levels too?

JPete

I used to have a VSX-1123. That's a nice receiver. One reason I bought it besides the great deal I got, was that it had preouts for the fronts. I only ran the whole system off the receiver for a day I think, then put my amp in play. I do recall noticing a nice difference in sound when I hooked up the amp(NAD 2200PE at the time) especially, and obviously, with 2 channel music, but don't think you'll get a ton of difference for low to moderate volume HT usage. If you don't already have an amp laying around to drop in, then I don't think it would be worth the expense. YMMV though.

If you go to an amp for the fronts, it will bump the power that's getting to the surrounds and center from the receiver a bit so -- might help. I ended up going all separates. Much happier now.

rpf65

I disagree that an amp won't help in HT.

You have one power supply in your AVR. It's powering 7 speakers, but those speakers don't get equal amounts of power. Your front mains get about half of it. Your center will receive slightly more than the individual surrounds.

Powering those A7's with an amp will take a huge load off your AVR. A lot of people seem to be fixated on the "80% of dialogue comes from the center channel." The forget that it can also be as low as 40%.

Dialogue also relies heavily on reserve power. It isn't very often that somebody is speaking, and there isn't some other sound going on. Most of the time ambient sound is coming from the front sound stage. The more reserve power that is available, the better the potential for enhanced dialogue.

If you get an amp that provides good clean power to your A7's, it will help with dialogue, even at lower volumes. You may find you have to run your center a little hotter than the calibration program sets it at, but you'll also have more available power for that.

mxms

Thanks for the comments.

@rpf65 The part about the receiver able to drive the center and surrounds better when it has offloaded some of the work to an external amp does make sense to me.

I just finished watching Trumbo tonight, and I had no problems with dialogue delivery there. The movie has very few surround effects (just footsteps and such) and the background score is not overbearing either, so what you're saying seems to make sense. It's in more involved action movies that I have the problem.

@JPete Although I don't have an amp lying around, I think I can borrow one from a friend for a few days. Will give it a go before committing to buying one.

JPete

Good idea to try a decent amp in there to see what difference it may make before going out and buying one. Like I said before... I don't think it will do much in low to moderate level HT playback. If you feel like the system is really lacking, going to separates may be the investment to make. Although I liked the VSX-1123, it really didn't have enough juice for me, even only driving a center and pair of surrounds. I sold it to a buddy and he's more than happy with it in a 7.2 setup. To each his own.

gp4jesus

Consider using a Rotel RB-985 as a 3 channel for your LCR - you'll never look back. Later a Parasound HCA 855 for your sides & rears.

Check my sig. I have separates all throughout my system. Biamping & triamping pending.

Tony