Question for our Pro HVAC members....
kevhed72
Posts: 5,075
Or if you went through this process lately....
I want to add my basement to our existing system which runs just the 1st floor currently.
I had an outfit come out today - he took measurements and came up with a 3 ton unit to cover both the basement and 1st floor, which sounds about right to me. Installation, ductwork, new drain line, etc. etc. Quote started at 7600.00 for a 3-ton, 13 SEER Lennox system. Question is....is this a fair price? Thanks in advance....
I want to add my basement to our existing system which runs just the 1st floor currently.
I had an outfit come out today - he took measurements and came up with a 3 ton unit to cover both the basement and 1st floor, which sounds about right to me. Installation, ductwork, new drain line, etc. etc. Quote started at 7600.00 for a 3-ton, 13 SEER Lennox system. Question is....is this a fair price? Thanks in advance....
Post edited by kevhed72 on
Comments
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Thats about what we paid for our HE Lennox system. It was about 5 yrs ago when rebates were running rampent. Ended up costing around 5k.
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You don't mention the heating (H) aspect of your bid. You live somewhere w/out cold months?
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You don't mention the heating (H) aspect of your bid. You live somewhere w/out cold months?
Atlanta area....heat pump / ac unit. -
My brother in-law works HVAC in the Florida area. Prices will vary quite a bit depending on your geographic location.
About a year and a half ago, I paid $7,700 (after rebate) for: 96% AFUE, two (2) stage heating, variable speed. Lennox XC14-42 (3.5 ton) rated at 15 SEER and 12.7 EER. “I-comfort” thermostat.
When I gave the quote to my brother in law, he asked me if I was sitting down because I should be after getting it up the ****$ on that quote. However, that was one of the cheapest of the three I obtained.
No new ductwork or anything. Just a straight swap.Polk Fronts: RTi A7's
Polk Center: CSi A6
Polk Surrounds: FXi A6's
Polk Rear Surround: RTi4
Sub: HSU VTF-3 (MK1)
AVR: Yamaha RX-A2010
B&K Reference 200.7
TV: Sharp LC-70LE847U
Oppo BDP-103 -
My brother in-law works HVAC in the Florida area. Prices will vary quite a bit depending on your geographic location.
About a year and a half ago, I paid $7,700 (after rebate) for: 96% AFUE, two (2) stage heating, variable speed. Lennox XC14-42 (3.5 ton) rated at 15 SEER and 12.7 EER. I-comfort thermostat.
When I gave the quote to my brother in law, he asked me if I was sitting down because I should be after getting it up the ****$ on that quote. However, that was one of the cheapest of the three I obtained.
No new ductwork or anything. Just a straight swap.
How do you like the 2-stage, variable speed unit....I was quoted a bit more for one of these, but the idea behind variable seems to be a good idea to me...I would imagine the air quality in the house overall would be better... -
Honestly, I don't really notice it. At all.
I'm pretty oblivious to many things though, and never really sat around contemplating how comfortable my heat was/wasn't. I merely figured that with the amount of coin I was spending, another $800 wasn't all that much to move up to the variable speed unit. With three dogs in my house, air quality wasn't high on the list either
Polk Fronts: RTi A7's
Polk Center: CSi A6
Polk Surrounds: FXi A6's
Polk Rear Surround: RTi4
Sub: HSU VTF-3 (MK1)
AVR: Yamaha RX-A2010
B&K Reference 200.7
TV: Sharp LC-70LE847U
Oppo BDP-103 -
Check with your utility company for rebates and cost-share. I upgraded the HVAC in my house in IL, with a total cost of around $12,000 for the project, and between ComEd and Nicor I got close to $7,000 of that paid for by the utility companies.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
Your location makes some sense for using a heat pump system. Here in KS, not so much.
The majority of HVAC bids around here will push for a heat pump & not mention the # of days/yr the pump will not be able to heat. They usually install an 80% efficient furnace as backup vs. > 94% AFUE (annual fuel utilization efficiency). In our case, we were replacing an old Lennox w/91 AFUE. Every bid was for an 80 (they have bought these less efficient units in bulk to install in contractor-built homes) along w/heat pump.
We're likely the first homeowners here to install a direct vent NG furnace, a Rinnai (made in Japan). The Rinnai website indicated a local HVAC firm that was certified to install. I called & phone gal said NO WE DON'T. I insisted & she turned me over to the HVAC chief. He repeated NO WE DON'T. I told him the Rinnai website said he does & he recalled the OWNER had gone to a seminar (they do install Rinnai tankless water heaters, run on same principal). I told him what model # I wanted. He contacted wholesaler (where I'd seen Rinnai H2O heater). They checked 5 warehouses & had one unit (the one I'd asked for!).
The HVAC owner showed up the next week with the unit + 5 guys to see what was in the suitcase-sized box. After a look at the install manual, all but 1 guy left. 2 of his plumbers showed up to run a gas line to the 4-season porch. Their electrician had the flu. He came back the next week to install a dedicated 20 amp line.
The big savings = these Japanese units have variable gas jets. They sense the indoor/outdoor temps, open the jet just so much, & heat up a heat exchanger. American units? AFAIK still have one setting on the gas jet: FULL BORE. After adding the Rinnai, we could not tell much of a difference in our gas bill.
We also have a Japanese tankless water heater since ~ 2000. Gas bill is ~ $18/month ($1.80 for actual gas usage). We were turned down by a boatload of plumbers who weren't interested in new, unknown technology. I should have installed it myself, as the one that took the job had never actually installed a tankless water heater & messed up the stainless steel double wall ducting (2 90 deg turns max); ran short & I had to reorder out of state (he was sure he could source some here or Topeka; NADA).
The old hands with HVAC & plumbing are reluctant to try anything new. The Japanese have paid high $ for energy for a long time. ~ 27 years ago, many were still draining their household water pipes at night; as they didn't have central heating. Europe is also far ahead of us with household energy usage.
Unless you insist on high efficiency, HVAC will install what building contractors use, as they bought them in bulk at a discount & could care less about the bills you wind up paying.
I would recommend an estimate for Goodman/Trane/Amana. They all come off the same assembly line. Lennox has a vise grip on certain OEM parts = high price on initial unit + repairs (unless tech will adapt a non-Lennox part, where possible.
THANX for the HVAC soapbox. When I showed the HVAC estimator our old Lennox, he found his name on the paperwork. He didn't recall wanting to install electric baseboard heating in our 4-season porch . . . . -
Best guess you are getting something around RNC, builders grade equipment with 5 or so drops added for the basement, less if metal ducting. Even at that, Lennox makes really good equipment. My advise to people who ask me about brands is either Carrier/Bryant or Lennox. Carrier makes Bryant, and they are the same internally.
I'm pretty sure Lennox has gotten away from using PSC type motors, which have a capacitor, but may still use them on their lower end furnaces/air handlers. Not in sales, I just fix them, so don't hold me to that. The price quoted is a pretty fair price, maybe a couple hundred high, but I really don't know that market.
I've seen mention of variable speed systems. The reason for a variable speed fan is to de-humidify. If you're going in that direction, get Carrier or Bryant. They are the absolute best in this area. They have special thermostats to go with their equipment, and it is second to none. The Nest thermostats are very good, but second best. The Conex t-stat has Wi-Fi capabilities, while the infinity/evolution doesn't.
Just be warned, when you start looking at higher end equipment, be prepared to pay. Stepping up to, for instance, a Bryant 285 condenser, FE4 fan coil, and Conex t-stat will add about $2500 to that bid. That would be a variable speed fan coil, with a single speed condenser. Want a 2 speed condenser, add another $2k. -
Forgot, federal tax credits will probably end this year.
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This is all good info folks. It looks like the tax credit is 500 max. and ends Dec. 31 as of now. Th price I was quoted for doing both units in our house (may just get it all done with at once) was a difference of 3900.00 between a 13 SEER and 16 SEER. If indeed roughly half of our electric bill each month is heating and cooling, the 16 SEER may be a no-brainer to recoup that 3900 in lower electric bills. Our electric bills max out at around 200.00 in the hottest summer months in GA. Decisions, decisions....
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You're looking at SEER rating incorrectly. !3 to 16 SEER is not 30% more efficient, It's 15%. So $200 x .5 = $100, and $100 x .15 = $15. Cost for electric is $180 per year. The base line for SEER is 10. In other words a 10 SEER rating is 10% more efficient than a 9 SEER, but only 5% less efficient less than 11 SEER. Above 10 SEER divide the difference by 2, to get actual cost savings.
Just a guess on the percentage of electric for heat/cool where your at. In Austin it's closer to 60% cooling/40% heating, with heat pump, of electric costs. Just a general rule of thumb, and I usually subtract a couple of percentage points on energy savings. Just like audio, every home is different.
I would guess that between the 13 and 16 SEER units it will probably be closer to $12 per month than $15. Installation, ducting, insulation, house orientation to sun, types of windows and doors, home construction materials, amount of insulation, and a few other things play a part in it. I'm usually pretty close in this area, usually guess a little bit lower than actual savings. Better that way, from the guy giving advise.
