Bring on da SVS...

VR3

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pc_ultra.htm

We just ordered it...

warviper

Damn every time i see svs I think of Dr.spec, good for you sid he would want it that way.

VR3

Yeah, where is Doc anyways?

warviper

Hes hes cant break it to the kid someone else gotta.

scottvamp

Way to go sid. Ya'll be blown away. Don't let me see u use the word "going cheap" anymore. Now you will see the going "SMALL" theory in action.

VR3

....thats my Dad's subwoofer....lmao

dave shepard

Nice Sid.. Congrats and I'm sure you'll see a big diff. in all the LFE's and you will see just what all of us have been hearing and feeling. I assume it's giong in your dads set-up. As for the Doc I hope he comes around again I seen him post a few times on the HTF but not as much as he use too .

Good going

Dave

danger boy

yeah i hope Dr. comes back too.

nice Trey. your dad will love the sub

Mike Reeter

Guys,Just wondering,what HAS happened to Dr.Spec?

Has some one pissed him off? Or is it some thing else?

Just curious...BTW Sid,congrats on the SVS purchase,I hope to have one of mine own some day...

fireshoes

Finally talked the old man into it, eh?

VR3

IT TOOK..1 YEAR! Can you believe it? We spent over 100 hours arguing subwoofers and he finally gave in. To think, it all started with a HSU 400 dollar subwoofer, ended up to the PCi 25-31, then at last minute the PC Ultra...haha

JDOGG

Maybe you can talk him into letting you borrow it sometime.;)

HBombToo

way ta go Sid.

Your Dad will be amazed!

HBomb

dave shepard

Originally posted by Mike Reeter
Guys,Just wondering,what HAS happened to Dr.Spec?

Has some one pissed him off? Or is it some thing else?

I surely don't know but one small disagreement shouldn't have been the cause of total exile, but you never know what could have been the real cause. I know for sure that he would like to see that all his and Sids posts have finally paid off .

Dave

VR3

Yes!

HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR I AM BUYING A HSU VTF-2! YES HE WOULD

pjdami

Trey,

Have you ordered the Hsu yet? I thought you were set on a SVS PB1-ISD or the PCi 25-31?

I have the Hsu STF-2 and although its a nice little sub, don't expect miracles from the thing. The STF-2 is basically the VTF-2 in max extension mode (as opposed to max output in SPL).

If money is a consideration, PB1 vs the VTF-2, I would wait until you've collected some more cash. I really fear that the VTF-2 will leave you wanting more especially with your listening habits (like to play a song or two loud from time to time).

Like I said, don't expect miracles from the Hsu. In the "underworld" movie DVD there is an opening scene with thunder and the Hsu kind of farts during this scene. Not too impressive. I don't know if its a bad mastering of the recording but until I get my SVS sub I can't compare.

Also, on the LOTR "ring drop" scene the Hsu is a full 10 db lower on the ring drop than where it is supposed to be. Albeit, I do have a large room and your room will be smaller. I do know however that you have great expectations when it comes to bass as well.

I hate to make you second guess, but I just have a gut feeling that you are going to want more.

Paul

VR3

PJ,
It will be a long while before I order a sub, in that time I am considering my options...

My options right now are.....

HSU VTF-2 or STF-2
or
SVS PCi 22-31

However the PC Ultra tackles my dads house will decide for me.

My Dad's house has a huge den, and it opens up to 2 dining rooms, a kitchen, and a small hallway....

Then ceilings are 12 foot, 11 foot, 10 foot, 9 foot, and the floor is concrete slab. That subwoofer better be ready to slap on the armor, it's about to the pushed to all its got. Garunteed.

How it performs, will make up my mind.

Tour2ma

Adcom Kid,
Doc'd be happy for you with the Ultra and the Hsu...

I'm sure he'll be back, just taking a little break.

VR3

yep...hopefully

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
PJ,

My options right now are.....

HSU VTF-2 or STF-2
or
SVS PCi 22-31

However the PC Ultra tackles my dads house will decide for me.

My Dad's house has a huge den, and it opens up to 2 dining rooms, a kitchen, and a small hallway....

Then ceilings are 12 foot, 11 foot, 10 foot, 9 foot, and the floor is concrete slab. That subwoofer better be ready to slap on the armor, it's about to the pushed to all its got. Garunteed.

How it performs, will make up my mind.

Sid:

Any SVS PCi will easily outperform the 10" Hsu in terms of clean output and extension. The Hsu woofer only has an 8mm xMax, after all.

Regarding the PC-Ultra. Just because it's an SVS and it has the TV-12 driver doesn't really give you the license (IMO) to abuse it.

Sure, it will play loud, clean, linear, and super deep. The xMax of the driver is very high (a bit more than 26 mm), and the sub will move a LOT of air. But the TV-12 driver can (and has) been bottomed by owner's just getting plain stupid and pushing it way past what is reasonable.

One guy over at AVS repeatedly bottomed his single Ultra (and eventually ruined it) on We Were Soldiers by running it 5-6 dB hot on calibration and playing his system at Reference Level. He's got dual Ultra's now and is happy as a clam, but that 's what it takes for some people who want/need clean, uncompressed, 120+ dB bass peaks in large rooms.

So if the room is large, make sure you properly calibrate the sub with Avia (or at a minimum internal AVR test tones), and crank up some bassy HT or music at loud (but not stupid) levels and just ENJOY the sub.

You will know when the sub is approaching it's clean limits when the suspension of the woofer starts limiting the excursion and it simply won't play any louder, even as you continue to increase the Master Volume.

This is a huge warning sign you are exceeding the xMax and fast approaching xMag where you will bottom the woofer and possibly damage the voice coil.

Just some friendly advice to keep you from fragging an $1,100 sub on day one. With that said, I think you will be VERY impressed with what even a single Ultra can accomplish in a large room. Just don't get stupid with it, that's all.

Doc

kberg

Hey Doc, with all you said above, would you say that it should be considered relatively safe to not worry about bottoming out/ruining an SVS as long as the volume were at least 5 clicks under reference?

Dr. Spec

Kev:

That totally depends on the room size, how "lossy" (i.e., open) the room is, how hot the sub is calibrated, and how hot the DVD is recorded.

Really hard to say without those specifics, but -5RL is generally too much for a single driver sub in all but moderate to smaller size rooms.

Of course do realize that some subs lop off the entire bottom octave and/or have dynamic limiters so they seem to handle certain passages "just fine", but you are missing out on the true experience.

The SVS design is a double edged sword. It stays linear both in dynamics and in FR all the way up to its clean limits and it generally gives no "obvious" warning signs it is about to bottom out. Usually the compression I discussed above is as much warning as an SVS will give you.

You might recall one "Scott Goldsmith" who smoked his new 20-39PC+ on LOTR-FOTR and discovered later (after talking with me and SVS) that he was running the sub about 9-11 dB hot and was pushing it to near RL on his Master Volume.

He now runs THREE SVS cylinders (one 20-39PC+, and two 20-39CS with a Samson S700, and is in bass heaven.

I guess all I'm saying is - like a Corvette - when people first get an SVS they want to push it to the max and sometimes bad things happen as a result. A single 12" driver - even one as good as the dB-12 or the TV-12 - has limits.

VR3

Doc...

wow, that floated WAY into left field.....

Heres what I meant, the SVS will be up for a challenge, all considering the shear size of my Dad's house. It will not be abused, lol, I RARELY **EVER** use my Dad's system. If anyone abuses it, it'll be him. Remember though, He's going from a M&K to a SVS, so i think it should please the both of us easily, ya know what I mean?

The SVS, i am have decided to go with, just to skip the ifs, and ands. So yeah, no HSU for me.

Dr. Spec

That subwoofer better be ready to slap on the armor, it's about to the pushed to all its got. Garunteed.

I dunno about left field - ya gotta admit this was a pretty clear cut statement.

I just didn't want you to destroy it on Day 1 - looking out for ya Sid. (thumbs up) .

Your Dad has the MX-350, IIRC? I think the SVS will compete VERY favorably, and for far less $$.

One thing that might take some getting used to: The SVS will be very flat and neutral in the 35-70 Hz region, where many subs have an exaggerated response. A sub with a strong emphasis in this region might at first blush seem to have more impact but in reality it just has more unnatural boom. Give yourself time to adjust to the SVS "sound" - it is very accurate but doesn't draw much attention to itself in the mid bass region. Kick drum and bass guitar will suddenly sound clean and tight instead of heavy and gut thumping.

The octave from 35-17 Hz is what separates the men from the boys and this is where the SVS will walk away with authority.

VR3

My dad has the MX-90 (MX-125), just like I

Yes, my Dad plans to run the M&K with the SVS, i am trying to discourage this idea......

Dr. Spec

Oh God no. Don't mix the two, that would be a disaster. That would be like spray painting the Mona Lisa with Krylon.

The SVS will trounce all over the MX-90 in extension and output, and mixing them will plain sound bad.

Try it alone first.

VR3

THATS WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!

lol!!!!!!!!!!

My dad is hard-headed! If you think I am, just try to convince him of something! it took me well over a year to convince him to just BUY a SVS, much less convince him the M&K isnt all and mighty! lol

Tour2ma

IN other words Sid, you're a chip off the ol' block... eh?

kberg

Thanks for the reply above, Doc. As usual, very informative. I don't feel I've pushed my sub too hard, and I hope I never do!