Does High End interconnects and speaker cables really make an improvement ?

87turboT

I'm setting up a 2 ch. system using a pair of LSI 15s that are standing in for RTA 11TLs that I want to get refurbished. The LSIs have a very annoying resonance or ringing of the upper bass frequencies that the RTAs don't suffer from. Did the woofer change to DB 840s which helped but still have some resonance. I still prefer the tighter cleaner sounding bass of the RTAs. System is mid-fi using 20 yr. old Adcom pre. and amp with generic interconnects and speaker cables. Got aroung to cleaning the RCAs which were very tarnished with Deoxit and Signet cleaning tool and noticed an improvement in sound. Cleaner highs, deeper lows and alot less resonance. Just cleaning the RCAs made a difference so it got me thinking about better cables. Can better cables improve damping and maybe control the resonance better? I don't know if this is the reason why it seems like there is less resonance. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

chandler9a

Others will chime in but in my experience through this journey, yes, cables do make a difference. For me, I would not say I have high end cables, mostly Audio Quest with the most expensive being the King Cobra. Sidewinders do well for me too.

There are so many different kinds, some better some worse, for your system and your ears than others so you may want to get your research on and simply try out different kinds.

Keep us posted and I'm sure there will be more comments on this one...

dscheer

Just curious?....when you had the RTA11TLs in the system were you using the same Adcom pre and amp?
I wonder if that ringing you are hearing that you described (upper bass freqs) may be coming from the port of this speaker system.
Try a easy teat...stuff some foam into the ends of each port and listen for that upper bass ringing.
Don't leave the foam in, But give it a try. Sometimes when we are driving a speaker system at loud levels, some speaker port designs may ring or as you stated "upper bass resonance" this is a cheap or even a free test. Let me know if there was a difference.
Regards: Don scheer

dscheer

I think the LSi15s have ports where your RTA 11Tls have bass radiators and (No Ports).
and yes! quality speaker wires do make a difference, However; I don't think that would eliminate that upper bass ringing.
Still tend to think it's port noise.
Regards: Don Scheer

87turboT

Thanks guys for your input. Don, you are correct about the 2 different speaker designs. I am using the same Adcom gear for the various speakers (gfp 555II and gfa 5400). I could actually hear the resonance even at low volume. The new woofers are still breaking in and took care of alot of the resonance. I just can't get into the sound of the ported designs but thats pretty much all thats out there nowadays. The LSIs have smoother sounding highs and better soundstage/imaging but the low end is puffy sounding and lacks the impact of the RTAs. Will try the foam test and hear what happens. I am curious as to why better contact at the interconnects made an improvement in reducing resonance. I'll probably go the same route as chandler and get Audioquest from Crutch..... Have a feeling that the RTAs will be the prefered speaker after RDO 198 tweeter and xo upgrades. Maybe my old ears just prefer the old school sound.

tonyb

Which Adcom amp are you using ? And yes, better cables all around would help.

cnh

He lists the GFA-5400 (successor to the 545?). 125 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms, 200 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms?

I'm not a big cable kind of guy, but if you're not hearing the bass you should, cables are one place you should look.

Also, though the 5400 is reasonably powerful. LSi-15s might prefer an amp that can put out even more at 4 ohms (300 watts x 2 or more?).

cnh

BlueFox

87turboT wrote: »

Can better cables improve damping and maybe control the resonance better?

No. That is not the job of good cables. You need to get gear which does not have these issues. The job of a signal cable (interconnects and speaker) is to get the signal from the source to the destination with zero change. If the cable is changing the signal then it is adding distortion. You might get lucky and the added distortion might seem like an improvement with one set of gear, but on other gear it might make things worse. Which is why you want signal cables that add zero distortion.

Power cables, on the other hand, should ideally filter AC line noise, filter noise generated by the power supply back onto the AC line, and provide current spikes from the wall with no delay.

Get quality cables from a reputable vendor that addresses these issues and spend the rest of your time enjoying the music, and upgrading your gear.

So yes, high-end cables can, and do, make an improvement in sound, and video, quality. But they need to be used correctly. Trying to fix gear flaws with cables is a no win scenario.

skrol

Wow, this is timely. I am looking at a pair of LSi15's w/DB-840 to possibly replace my modded RTA-11TL's .
Stan

87turboT

Thanks to all for great advice and suggestions. Stan, IMHO the LSIs are good speakers. Alot smoother than my unmodded RTAs but the lows sound different from the RTAs. If you can get them at a good price give them a listen. You might like them. Can your Denon handle the 4ohm load? I just switched them from the 2 ch. to HT receiver (Adcom 700 HD 226 watts @ 4ohms) playing in 2 ch. and they actually sound better. I think my 20 yr old speaker cables on the old 2 ch. is the culprit, the HT receiver has newer 12 gauge cables. Now bass is fuller with little resonance. Just orderd better speaker cables from Rogue Cables and Audioquest interconnects. Not high end but better than what I have now. Will switch back to 2 ch. setup with new cables to see if my suspicion in right.

skrol

My old Denon is pretty beefy and might drive them ok, but I recently picked up a Parasound C/PT-600 and HCA-800II that is now driving my system. It is only rated at 100W @ 8 ohms / 150 @ 4 ohms continuous but high current.

Modding the RTA-11TL with the RDO-198 and Clarity Caps really worked wonders. I also hear good things about upgrading the LSi crossovers.

drumiv

Well, I'm about to find out, and I hope it's true, 'cause they ain't cheap. I should be getting my DH Lab's "Revelation" interconnects (amp,amp, SACD) in the next couple days, testing to follow.

87turboT

Stan, did you get to audition the LSIs? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the LSIs vs RTAs. How did the mods to your RTAs change/improve the sound? I still prefer the RTAs bass output.

skrol

The SL-3000 in the RTA-11TL is very detailed but can seem a but harsh and forward. The RDO-198 smoothed thing out nicely. I did find a bad solder connection (actually was not soldered) on one of my crossover caps where one cap was supposed to be soldered to another in parallel. This may have contributed to the harshness. Smoothness and sound stage were further enhanced by replacing the electrolytic caps with Clarity Cap PX polypropylene film capacitors and the resistors with Mils non-inductive resistors.

To clean up the mids and mid-bass, I applied sonic barrier to the inner cabinet walls and repositioned the daycron polyfill which had fallen out of place. Dynamat was applied to the mid-woofer and passive radiator baskets. All the seams of the cabinet were resealed and new gasket material was put around all the drivers.

Overall I am very pleased with the results. The RTA-11TL's easy to drive and are able to fill my rather large listening area (joined family room / kitchen) with full range of sound with little input. It leaves me skeptical about the LSi15's but they are supposed to be excellent too. It may come down having enough power (current) to drive them.

Unfortunately, I have not gotten to audition the LSi15's yet but am still working on it.

dscheer

Regarding the ? "Why do better contacts reduce ringing"...........Contacts are of a different physical make-up than let's say a good cooper/silver wire. Once the wire is terminated with a contact, this contact RCA, Or even a speaker wire contact Spade, bannana plug, has different metal properties, some have gold plating and others have more exotic blends of metal in the contact.....What happens at the contact that can degrade the signal is called "Eddy Currents" The goal of the wire wither an interconnect or speaker wire run is to have the electrons flow without outside or internal wire/contact interferance....Eddy currents usually show up at the termination point of the wire, Thus the contact. Various interconnect/wire designs are offered today and some get really pricey. And as above post have mentioned some really improve the sound.
I'm not sure that the ringing you have experianced can be eliminated by better wire/interconnects, but there is a positive improvement in over all sound quality.
Oh!..and I love my RTA too!...I have RTA12cs and Love them . Purchased them new in 1984, I'm an old ****.
Regards: Don scheer

tonyb

Well Don, I too am old....and yes....I ****.
Can I be a member of the old farts club too ? Do I get a badge or somethin' ? A whistle ? I really want a whistle. LOL

dscheer

Yes!...You will get your "**** Whistle" in the mail, be carefull how you use it. Badges!..I have no badges, I don't have to show you no stinking badges.
Enjoy your whistle.
Regards: Don Scheer

skrol

An update on the RTA-11TL vs LSi15... see link.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?154730-LSi15-vs-RTA11TL-%28w-mods%29

I do think I hear what you mean by LSi15 bass resonance but it seems to be dependent on speaker placement. Unfortunately, I am limited in where I can place the speakers. I do find that the RTA-11TL's do better in this aspect. However, overall I prefer the LSi's. I still love the RTA's and will be sad to see them go.

Stan

leftwinger57

I'll throw in w/ the yes it does matter or make a difference. When I 1st got started I used what was available and if it was the spindly RCAs that came w/ a dvd player that's what I used. Not until I tried Signal Cable 1mt i/c the difference for me was undeniable going from amp to pre and from pre to avr. Now a lot has been made of symmetry of devices w/ cables and I believe this also to be true because when I tried an AudioQuest 12gu. spkr cable it did not mate well and I went back to my 12gu clear for the 2Bs and 14gu to my other sets. But I ask does this make sense,I guess if you can afford it....
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-gabriel-gold-halo-1m-rca-new-gold-silver-alloy-conductor-holographic-imaging-and-tex-2013-12-06-cables-06111

jon s

I used to use Monster MA2 speaker cables (I had bought a spool ages ago) and it seemed to make a slight difference over standard stuff from Home Depot. I then upgraded to Morrow cables and now have upgraded to Audioquest's Diamondback interconnects and the Rocket 44 speaker cables. I noticed an improvement with my Polk LSi15s but did not notice any appreciable difference with my Magnepan 1.6QRs....

Loud & Clear

I can't tell the difference between any cables, speaker or interconnect. I consider myself fortunate in this regard.

badchad

Loud & Clear wrote: »

I can't tell the difference between any cables, speaker or interconnect. I consider myself fortunate in this regard.

Same here, although my experience with different gear and cables is limited. I think for me, the other difference is I've never done a quick A/B test. Always takes a few minutes to switch out cables. The behavioral scientist in me would love to do this experiment though!

tonyb

badchad wrote: »

Same here, although my experience with different gear and cables is limited. I think for me, the other difference is I've never done a quick A/B test. Always takes a few minutes to switch out cables. The behavioral scientist in me would love to do this experiment though!

Well, I can tell you this.....You have enough nice gear in your sig to warrant a venture into better cabling.

skrol

DSkip wrote: »

... There are many used cables out there under $100 that can take your system to a whole new level and aren't hard to resell if you don't hear it.

DSkip
I am being lazy but can you suggest some to consider?
Thanks
Stan

badchad

tonyb wrote: »

Well, I can tell you this.....You have enough nice gear in your sig to warrant a venture into better cabling.

Yeah, although I've also come to the realization that I'm either too noobish to notice the difference, or just plain insensitive to the subtle differences afforded by equipment (or both). For example, I switched my front stage over from monoprice to some basic blue jeans cable, and didn't notice much. Also did some experimenting with HDMI cable and didn't notice any difference in my cheap monoprice and the more expensive "Cinnamon" cable.

Then again, to be honest, I didn't really notice any change when I switched from my Panasonic blu-ray to the Oppo, and (here's the real kicker) only noticed a small change when I added the B&K. However, with the B&K amp I clearly saw I ran at lower volume.

Could definitely be that I only sparingly listen to music (about 95% theater). Regardless, I'll probably take a shot at a pair of nice IC's soon, maybe a power conditioner. Maybe I just have old man ears or something

skrol

DSkip wrote: »

... Even the Belkin's I had were a pretty big step up from your generic clear coat stuff. ...

I should mention that I am presently running "Monster 400i Ultra.. Ultra.. Ultra High.. High.. High Performance Audio Cable" between my Pre-amp and amp and from the CDP. I know... , but I got them real cheap when Circuit City went CH11.

I assume the MIT, Audioquest and PNF Audio would be a big improvement.?.

Hermitism

Let me say a few words. I'm about as new to this audio world as you can get. This summer I thought all wire was the same. I had always believed that the wire gauge was the only important thing about cables. Then when I heard a difference between 14g clear coats and 14g Belkin PureAV cables, I just couldn't believe it. Even though I only used the Belkins for less than five months, it was definitely a necessary purchase. If I hadn't heard a difference, then I never would have committed to spending more money on cables. And those Belkins aren't going anywhere. They'll make a great spare set in case I break or bend a nanner on the cables I have now or if I start building another system, I'll have some cables to use for starting out.

With HDMI cables, the difference is less noticeable for me. People can argue all they want about it being a digital signal and there not being a difference, but I disagree. However I think the differences are much more subtle than with speaker cables. I noticed a slight difference between the cheap cable that came with the Dish receiver and a Monster Ultra 800 in video. Then when I went from the Monster to an Audioquest Chocolate I heard a slight difference in sound, but not picture. Also might be a tad brighter, which I didn't want.

pitdogg2

I found some improvement when I went from parts express 10ga to Canare 4S11. Canare can had for 1.38 per foot at Have Inc. As with anything it all depends on what is upstream. I really like the Signal Ultra's I bought used on this 4m and it was a great price to get ears on another product without spending a gob of money.

skrol

I have about 25' run from my amp to my speakers and was thinking about getting some 12 AWG from Bluejeans but I have been hearing much good about the Canare 4S11. As this is a 4 conductor cable, is it better to parallel the two pairs or bi-wire (1-pair drive highs, 1-pair drive lows, combined at amp)?

Hermitism

I can only speak for myself. Mine are bi-wire (1-pair drive highs, 1-pair drive lows, combined at amp) because it eliminated the use of a jumper and one less connection. It was actually cheaper than having matching jumpers made out of the same wire.

But if you buy raw wire and do it yourself, it wouldn't cost you extra.

pitdogg2

skrol wrote: »

I have about 25' run from my amp to my speakers and was thinking about getting some 12 AWG from Bluejeans but I have been hearing much good about the Canare 4S11. As this is a 4 conductor cable, is it better to parallel the two pairs or bi-wire (1-pair drive highs, 1-pair drive lows, combined at amp)?

At this length 25' you are wide open. Go to Audio Advisor and look at the sale on Audioquest cables and interconnects. I think they knocked down the Rocket44 and 88 cables by about 50% if i remember right. I can't comment on the way you will hook up personally I can't see much difference either way.

Either way you can't lose