Deciding between a Pioneer Elite SC-63 and a Denon AVR 2313CI
PolishDude
Posts: 58
I was able to snag an open box SC-63 from Best Buy for a great price, all that is missing is the remote. I am also able to get a Denon AVR 2313 for a great price (about $30 less than the Pioneer). I bought a house and am in the process of putting together a home theater that I also want to sound good with music. So far I have a RTI A5 mains, CSI A6 center, and FXI A6 surrounds. I am still deciding on the sub. Due to my room configuration I am going to keep it as a 5.1.
SC-63 has the advantage of more power, 135x7 but probably closer to 105x7 when all 7 channels are playing (I saw a review (sound and vision) of the SC-61 and it did 99x7 and it is rated at 125x7 in specs) but besides the power, is there any other advantages to the Denon unit?
2313 has the advantage of 4k so it is a little more future proof in my opinion, I feel like you replace TVs faster than you replace receivers, I like the OSD it has versus the pioneer that does not have one, it appears to have a couple more features versus the pioneer. The test (sound and vision) I have seen on it says it will do 75x7 when all channels are playing however it does state that you can bi-amp it which could always be an option for the front mains?
Looks wise is a toss up. I truly can't decide. I like that there are more people with the Denon so I think the support is a little better and I read a SC-61 thread and it all appeared to be people trying to figure out how to use the receiver which has me a little worried that it may not be all that intuitive. I just want to plug it in and do some settings and have it work, people can't seem to even figure out how to do firmware updates without spending hrs on the Pioneer.
I guess my real concern is, does the Denon have enough power to power my setup to an acceptable level? I live in a townhouse so share walls so I won't be going for movie theater volumes but want to make sure I am not underpowering my speakers and getting the most of my new surround sound setup. Also any idea which one would be better for music?
Thanks
SC-63 has the advantage of more power, 135x7 but probably closer to 105x7 when all 7 channels are playing (I saw a review (sound and vision) of the SC-61 and it did 99x7 and it is rated at 125x7 in specs) but besides the power, is there any other advantages to the Denon unit?
2313 has the advantage of 4k so it is a little more future proof in my opinion, I feel like you replace TVs faster than you replace receivers, I like the OSD it has versus the pioneer that does not have one, it appears to have a couple more features versus the pioneer. The test (sound and vision) I have seen on it says it will do 75x7 when all channels are playing however it does state that you can bi-amp it which could always be an option for the front mains?
Looks wise is a toss up. I truly can't decide. I like that there are more people with the Denon so I think the support is a little better and I read a SC-61 thread and it all appeared to be people trying to figure out how to use the receiver which has me a little worried that it may not be all that intuitive. I just want to plug it in and do some settings and have it work, people can't seem to even figure out how to do firmware updates without spending hrs on the Pioneer.
I guess my real concern is, does the Denon have enough power to power my setup to an acceptable level? I live in a townhouse so share walls so I won't be going for movie theater volumes but want to make sure I am not underpowering my speakers and getting the most of my new surround sound setup. Also any idea which one would be better for music?
Thanks
Post edited by PolishDude on
Comments
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Also will throw the newer Denon X2000 into the mix
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2313 has the advantage of 4k so it is a little more future proof in my opinion
Non-factor: Is there anything available in 4K? No. Will there be? I wouldn't hold my breath.I like the OSD it has versus the pioneer that does not have one
Non-factor: "I just want to plug it in and do some settings and have it work"The test (sound and vision) I have seen on it says it will do 75x7 when all channels are playing
Factor: That's not much power compared to the Pioneer.however it does state that you can bi-amp it which could always be an option for the front mains?
Non-factor: You can't bi-amp squat with any AVR, period. BTW, Pioneer says you can do that too, but it's still not bi-amping, period.people can't seem to even figure out how to do firmware updates without spending hrs on the Pioneer.
Toss up: I've never had to do one on my SC-37.I live in a townhouse so share walls so I won't be going for movie theater volumes but want to make sure I am not underpowering my speakers and getting the most of my new surround sound setup.
Factor: Power isn't about being able to play it loud, it's about being able to play it lower with better results.Also any idea which one would be better for music?
Non-factor: It's an AVR, none are all that great for music.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Not to go against Jesse here, but Netflix and several others are gearing up to stream 4k content as early as March of 2014. Content producers are also adopting it, and networks are also coming on board as they replace their 1080 gear going forward. I do agree it is a bit early to switch, but the change is coming.
I DO see a dramatic improvement in picture quality from my SC-37 to the SC-65 I just replaced it with. The SC-65 is 4 k compliant.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
No problem John. I'm not really a video guy, 1080p is perfectly fine by me and I see no reason for 4K other than the fact that since 3D has failed, they must come out with something to sell new hardware and software.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
As far as 4K goes, depends on his delivery system I guess. For example, I'm running the Oppo 103, so for blu-ray or streaming there are 2 HDMI outs so I go straight to my display from the Oppo for video, no need to pass through my SC-61. And to the OP, I got the SC-61 about 8 months ago and did a firmware update right after I got it. Firmware on Pioneer site>to USB thumb drive>to SC-61, took about 15 minutes, easy peasy, and I'm a techno dork. Not sure I understand what you mean by OSD? If you mean on screen display, the Pioneer certainly has one. There is no OSD for volume control however, which never bothered me. Set up is easy with the MCACC as well. Two biggest complaints I've heard is lack of OSD for volume, and Pioneer could take a few lessons on how to design a good remote, both small gripes IMO. Love my SC-61, perhaps someone else can speak to the Denon...
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Thanks for the responses guys, I want to play with the Pioneer before my return window is up but unfortunately the unit I bought did not come with a remote but for $450 OTD I guess I can't complain. My problem is that my house remodeling is still not done so I can't simply just plug it in and play around with it and probably won't be able to until after I can no longer return it so I have to rely on facts I find on my own.
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I'd take the Pioneer all day and twice on Sunday. I love my Denon 3805 but unless you get into the upper 4 series (4811) the lower are all just crap. the last good lower series was the 3808,4808 and such.
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Agreed, get the Pio and be happy. I would be
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
PolishDude wrote: »...I want to play with the Pioneer before my return window is up but unfortunately the unit I bought did not come with a remote but for $450 OTD I guess I can't complain.
Remote AXD7666 - $40.13
http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=SC-63
For $450 the $1300 MSRP SC-63 is a good buy. The Denon is nice also and I was actually looking at the 23__ & 33__ units myself but the SC provides more of what I'm looking for. Would only consider a later Denon 4____ unit over it.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
^ There's your remote. If you didn't get the manual, it's available for free d/l on the Pioneer site. Did you get the mic to do your room correction/set up via MCACC? Sounds like a great buy....
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I got everything but the remote, I have the disk, manuals, mic, some random cables.
Well I just scored a Elite 60" TV from Best Buy today, probably one of the last ones in the country so figured it should match my receiver
So $7300 in equipment just cost me $2175, Thank you Best Buy! They even let me pick up 2 brand new 3D glasses and a Harmony 650 remote! -
Pioneer is going to be the better sounding of the two
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The Pioneer is on a higher tier from the Denon. Keep it.
As for 4k, you don't really want 1st gen implementation of any new technology. By the time 4k is mainstream, there will be much better support.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
The Pioneer is on a higher tier from the Denon. Keep it.
As for 4k, you don't really want 1st gen implementation of any new technology. By the time 4k is mainstream, there will be much better support.
couldn't of said it better myself -
okay guys, you convinced me, the Elite stays. Thanks
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As a longtime onkyo owner, keep the SC. Denon sounds a lot like onkyo so I have a reference point. I bought the SC 63 from new egg recently and was floored by the sound compared to my Onkyo 876. The Pioneer sounds great and very clean at high volume
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nooshinjohn wrote: »
I DO see a dramatic improvement in picture quality from my SC-37 to the SC-65 I just replaced it with. The SC-65 is 4 k compliant.
What evvvvv -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Not to go against Jesse here, but Netflix and several others are gearing up to stream 4k content as early as March of 2014. Content producers are also adopting it, and networks are also coming on board as they replace their 1080 gear going forward. I do agree it is a bit early to switch, but the change is coming.
I DO see a dramatic improvement in picture quality from my SC-37 to the SC-65 I just replaced it with. The SC-65 is 4 k compliant.
Do you have a 4K display already? 4k upscaling ability will have no effect on something that is shown on a 1080p display because it is not doing anything to a 1080 image! If your SC-65 looks better, its because it has a better video chip inside compared to your older unit. Lots of non-4k receivers have very good video chips inside, like the SC-63 we are talking about (which uses a Marvell QDEO chip).For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Would be interesting to see if there is a dramatic difference between my PS3/SC-25 combo compared to an Oppo 103/SC-65 setup. The 73" DLP is staying for awhile until a great deal comes along on an awesome 80"+ LED. So any gained video quality would be welcome.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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Would be interesting to see if there is a dramatic difference between my PS3/SC-25 combo compared to an Oppo 103/SC-65 setup. The 73" DLP is staying for awhile until a great deal comes along on an awesome 80"+ LED. So any gained video quality would be welcome.
Dude, at 80" you should really be starting to look at Projectors. IMHO anything over 65" if possible should be from a projector. I am going to stand pat on 65" personally as the biggest screen I would get thats NOT being put out by a projector."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Would be interesting to see if there is a dramatic difference between my PS3/SC-25 combo compared to an Oppo 103/SC-65 setup. The 73" DLP is staying for awhile until a great deal comes along on an awesome 80"+ LED. So any gained video quality would be welcome.EndersShadow wrote: »Dude, at 80" you should really be starting to look at Projectors. IMHO anything over 65" if possible should be from a projector. I am going to stand pat on 65" personally as the biggest screen I would get thats NOT being put out by a projector.
going to have to agree with Dan on this one. I bet for the money one would spend on 80" panel you could get TOTL projector for a lot less -
Last comparison, is an new in box Onkyo 818 from Crutchfield worth an extra $250 over the Pioneer SC-63?
Only big difference I really see is it has Audyssey XT32 and about 10 watts more per channel. Would XT32 make that big of a difference versus Pioneer's offering? I feel like I may be trying to do too much too fast. I am pretty sure going from a sound bar, anything will sound amazing but just want to make sure if I spend the money, I do it right the first time! -
IMHO.... no.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
NOT EVEN CLOSE. The amp section differences are SHOCKING"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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PolishDude wrote: »Last comparison, is an new in box Onkyo 818 from Crutchfield worth an extra $250 over the Pioneer SC-63?
Only big difference I really see is it has Audyssey XT32 and about 10 watts more per channel. Would XT32 make that big of a difference versus Pioneer's offering? I feel like I may be trying to do too much too fast. I am pretty sure going from a sound bar, anything will sound amazing but just want to make sure if I spend the money, I do it right the first time!
10 watts per channel on paper. In reality not even close. Onkyo will fail you. I have owned Onkyo for a decade. Now that I have heard the pioneer elite, never again! -
My point was that I have no plans to part with my current monitor anytime soon as 80 inchers are crazy expensive and my current home does not have the space for a tv room and movie/projection room. I previous had a 50" and was thinking about adding a projector....but I went with the best of both worlds. Just wondering if there are differences to be seen with the big "O" source and later SC units as John stated.EndersShadow wrote: »Dude, at 80" you should really be starting to look at Projectors. IMHO anything over 65" if possible should be from a projector. I am going to stand pat on 65" personally as the biggest screen I would get thats NOT being put out by a projector.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
Buy Onkyo...
If you want HDMI failure after a few years.
We've said it 10 different ways. Keep the SC-63!For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Get an Anthem MRX and external ice amp!
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4K? I hope you have Japanese-like bandwidths for that because it's going to STUTTER like the devil with Holy Water in his mouth. lol I know I'll NEVER be able to stream that where I am! NEVER!
That Denon is a flee amp compared to the Pioneer. Denon started to downsize their power supplies and amps a number of years ago and eliminate pre-outs from ALL but the highest models. The result, my old AVR 2807 is more than the equal of an AVR 3313, power wise and it's heavier!
SC-63 all the way, nothing else mentioned above can compete. You'd need to buy a $2000 Denon to even get close. And the Pioneer has PRE-OUTS! It's a no brainer!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
4K? I hope you have Japanese-like bandwidths for that because it's going to STUTTER like the devil with Holy Water in his mouth. lol I know I'll NEVER be able to stream that where I am! NEVER!
That Denon is a flee amp compared to the Pioneer. Denon started to downsize their power supplies and amps a number of years ago and eliminate pre-outs from ALL but the highest models. The result, my old AVR 2807 is more than the equal of an AVR 3313, power wise and it's heavier!
SC-63 all the way, nothing else mentioned above can compete. You'd need to buy a $2000 Denon to even get close. And the Pioneer has PRE-OUTS! It's a no brainer!
cnh
The thing with all this 4K crap and 3D is that you do not need your audio to get involved as most bluray players have dual outputs and get updated that often that the new lines will always best the avr or pre's video processor.
Who cares about 4K as there is not even any content readily available and as for steaming it? There is nothing to stream and wont be until 3 years from now and at that point there is going to be a whole other set of new standard of hdmi etc..
Go with the best sound and forget about all the crap thats been attached to it. I am with cnh here on this one
