RTia9 vs LSI9's

Ginn

Hello Gent's,

Quick question for the polk guys. I have had rti8's, rti10's back in the day but am now using the RTIa9's. I have always thought they were great but still needed a little more, so I emailed Trey over at VR3 for the upgraded cap's, which i'm still debating doing.
Yesterday I picked up a used set of LSI9's along with the LSIC. I plugged in the left LSI9 to compare it to the right RTIa9.
Little info on my setup. I have an Onkyo 3008 and also an Emotiva XPA5. I have the Emotiva sending 400w to each tower and 200 to my centre CSIa6.
When I unplugged the woofers on the rti and had the top play against the lsi, I have to say the rti was brighter and sounded way better. I had 200w sending to the top of the rti and both 200 and then 400 sent to the lsi. I had both the rti and lsi playing at the same time and there was no contest. The rti was louder, cleaner and you could hear the detail in the high end.
I had the amp set to stereo and I have to say the rti's out performed the lsi hands down. And I'm not talking about bass, just pure mid's and high's.

Am I doing something wrong because the should the lsi's be way more detailed and sharper than the rti's?

Thanks

Current
RTIa9's
CSIa6
FXI3
Onkyo 3008
Emotiva XPA-5
LSI9….. in closet at moment
LSIC…. in closet at moment

tonyb

The LSI's are more laid back than the RTI's, so if you like a brighter sound then maybe the RTI's are for you. Whats the source your using for music ?

Btw, hook the speakers up correctly to give a full impression, not just the top sections. Take both speakers too, not one LSI and one RTI at the same time. Do you have the LSI's on stands ? LSI's should be more detailed, but warmer sounding.

Ginn

Hey Tonyb

I have the speakers on stands, I listened to the rti top and bottom and it was defiantly brighter and more detailed than the lsi. I just wanted to hear the difference between the top of the rti and the lsi. The RTi just overwhelmed the LSI.

I'm listening to music from my computer through HDMI into the Onkyo out to the Emotiva then out to the speakers.
I thought the speakers would be more detailed but I can barely hear the cymbals and the high's. Yes the bass is better on the lsi with the woofers turned off from the rti, but no comparison if the woofers are on.

I'll try to hook up both speakers and listen to them. Should I try running them off my onkyo or stick with the emotiva?

txcoastal1

Your just going to have to play around with them. Most will say LSi's are better but only you can decide. Keep in mind of the placements may not be identical. Run both with/WO the amp. You can even consider doing a crossover upgrade on the LSi's.

They are your ears/your dime

Inspector 24

This times two. I own both Lsi and RTi, love the RTi's but can happily listen to LSI's longer

And the LSI's will be quieter, something about 4ohm vs 8ohm, I noticed this as well.

tonyb wrote: »

The LSI's are more laid back than the RTI's, so if you like a brighter sound then maybe the RTI's are for you. Whats the source your using for music ?

Btw, hook the speakers up correctly to give a full impression, not just the top sections. Take both speakers too, not one LSI and one RTI at the same time. Do you have the LSI's on stands ? LSI's should be more detailed, but warmer sounding.

Upstatemax

Hook up both LSi's and crank the volume and let them start to sing...

One of the only issues with LSi's is that they are fairly underwhelming till they start to get driven harder and they open right up.

There is no doubt in my mind that my LSi's are far more detailed and image WAY better than what my RTi A7's ever could. But the LSi's are a more difficult speaker to drive and thank you for feeding them more juice.

tonyb

Ginn wrote: »

Hey Tonyb

I have the speakers on stands, I listened to the rti top and bottom and it was defiantly brighter and more detailed than the lsi. I just wanted to hear the difference between the top of the rti and the lsi. The RTi just overwhelmed the LSI.

I'm listening to music from my computer through HDMI into the Onkyo out to the Emotiva then out to the speakers.
I thought the speakers would be more detailed but I can barely hear the cymbals and the high's. Yes the bass is better on the lsi with the woofers turned off from the rti, but no comparison if the woofers are on.

I'll try to hook up both speakers and listen to them. Should I try running them off my onkyo or stick with the emotiva?

If you can barely hear the highs, then something is amiss. Do you have the metal straps between the top and bottom posts in place in the back of the speaker ? Did you buy these used ? If so, they may have been abused. You have them hooked up to the amp, yes ?

F1nut

The LSi 9 is a higher quailty, more musical sounding speaker than the RTi 9, so something isn't right.

Ginn

tonyb wrote: »

If you can barely hear the highs, then something is amiss. Do you have the metal straps between the top and bottom posts in place in the back of the speaker ? Did you buy these used ? If so, they may have been abused. You have them hooked up to the amp, yes ?

Yes I had them hooked up with 200w from the emotiva amp with the metal strap in place, then I took the metal strap out and sent 200w to the top post and 200w to the bottom post. I did buy them used but they are in mint condition and they sounded great at his place. But I had nothing to compare them to, when I was there.
I'm going to try a few different things then send some feedback in.
Thanks Gent's

Inspector 24

Don't LSI's like to burn out the crossover boards? Maybe time to open them up and take a look?

F1nut

Don't LSI's like to burn out the crossover boards?

They don't burn out crossover boards. There is a 5 watt resistor in the high frequency circuit that in hindsight should have been of higher wattage. It can cook given volume abuse.

I did buy them used but they are in mint condition and they sounded great at his place.

What was he driving them with?

Inspector 24

Aaah, leaves the boards intact? Perhaps that could explain it. I almost bought a set of LSi's that didn't have all the tweeters working, after the demo the guy gave me I wasn't surprised, pumping the volume that high with just an AVR…yikes…Also bought a CSi5 with a non-working tweet, also a cooked resistor, easy fix.

Also curious what the seller was driving them with. And how loud he played them for you?

F1nut

Aaah, leaves the boards intact?

Yes, all the ones I've seen have just needed the resistor replaced. Something like a Mills 12 watt will do the trick. Of course, if some bozo is cranking his AVR into clipping causing the 5 watt resistor to cook, the higher wattage resistor will allow the tweeter to fry.

Also bought a CSi5 with a non-working tweet, also a cooked resistor, easy fix.

Are you asking or telling?

F1nut

To the OP, you can't have one channel trying to drive a 4 ohm load (LSi 9) while the other channel is driving an 8 ohm load (RTi A9) and come to any reasonable conclusion. I've never thought about before, but I can't see that doing your amp any good.

Nightfall

F1nut wrote: »

To the OP, you can't have one channel trying to drive a 4 ohm load (LSi 9) while the other channel is driving an 8 ohm load (RTi A9) and come to any reasonable conclusion. I've never thought about before, but I can't see that doing your amp any good.

It would be impossible to level match, no? The 4 ohm speaker is going to be louder than the other at the same volume.

Not to mention you wouldn't be able to hear the imaging, soundstage, and entire picture differences.

F1nut

The 8 ohm speaker will be louder, it's an easier load. I guess you could try the balance control, but it would be better to run each pair on their own for a proper comparision.

Nightfall

I must have my knowledge wrong then. I know that higher ohm loads are easier but why, then, do amps put out more power with harder to drive loads? I figured that would equate to the 4 ohm speaker being louder.

drummer86

Nightfall wrote: »

I must have my knowledge wrong then. I know that higher ohm loads are easier but why, then, do amps put out more power with harder to drive loads? I figured that would equate to the 4 ohm speaker being louder.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?152150-Physics-question-about-ohms

Ginn

So I hooked up all three speakers, in numerous ways, and this is what we heard over here.
The LSI centre channel is definitely less bright than the RTI's but it sounds amazing.
Now the LSI9's. They sound subdued in a big way. Half as loud as the LSIC centre, and we hooked up the same speaker wire back and forth between the LSIC and LSI9 and played music in stereo.
The LSIC had plenty of clarity and depth but the LSI9 sounded one dimensional and the singer sounds like he's trying to sing through a cloth.
I'm not a capacitor or resister guy so is this an easy fix or are the speakers toast?
I'd hate for them to be toast because I can see the potential with the LSIC that these would be amazing for music.
Any advice?

Thanks guy's

F1nut

Next time please quote the specific part so I don't have to read the entire thread to find it.

After I received the XPA-5, I made a quick call to Emotiva techs and asked if I could run 4 ohm speakers and 8 ohm speakers from the same amp and after they said "sure", it was on after that! The first test was 2 channel stereo with he LSi9s and the X-Ref 12 sub and Joy Denalane providing some sultry vocals. It was evident right up front that I needed to run the EmoQ and get that sub-woofer situated and configured appropriately, but the LSi9s had no problem projecting Joy (in more ways than one) like I had never heard before. I immediately appreciated the well rounded sound that a 'bookshelf' speaker could provide and I honestly haven't missed my Klipsch that much... although to be fair, I have not used the XPA-5 on my Klipsch yet. I'm sure they are dutifully up to the task. I'm looking forward to hearing the LSi F/Xs. I didn't realize they were so huge. I think I'll be going your route of having 2 pair of them in my setup's 7.2 end state.

While that is true, one has to equal the levels first. You will also note that the quoted poster above only mentions running the LSi 9's in 2 channel mode. Therefore, my comment that one cannot come to any reasonable conclusion trying to compare one 4 ohm speaker to an 8 ohm speaker as the OP did is accurate. Obviously, he did not equal the levels first.

Try really hard to take the advice I gave you in my last PM.

F1nut

Ginn wrote: »

So I hooked up all three speakers, in numerous ways, and this is what we heard over here.
The LSI centre channel is definitely less bright than the RTI's but it sounds amazing.
Now the LSI9's. They sound subdued in a big way. Half as loud as the LSIC centre, and we hooked up the same speaker wire back and forth between the LSIC and LSI9 and played music in stereo.
The LSIC had plenty of clarity and depth but the LSI9 sounded one dimensional and the singer sounds like he's trying to sing through a cloth.
I'm not a capacitor or resister guy so is this an easy fix or are the speakers toast?
I'd hate for them to be toast because I can see the potential with the LSIC that these would be amazing for music.
Any advice?

Thanks guy's

You'll have to pull the crossovers out. A burnt resistor is pretty easy to spot.

Inspector 24

F1nut wrote: »

Obviously, he did not equal the levels first.

This, big time. No way you can fairly compare them unless they're the same volume. Like saying a 200hp car is faster than a 400hp car when you're only using 1/2 throttle.

F1nut

I should comment on my 3:23AM pontification.......

I've never thought about before, but I can't see that doing your amp any good.

Being more awake, yeah, it's not a problem.

a quality amp

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

tonyb

LOL...that's all, just...LOL

F1nut

Kurt300 wrote: »

I'm glad you can admit you were wrong. I might not add you to my bozo list, after all. That is, if you also cease the insulting PMs and brand bashing. Good evening, sir.

I'd only be wrong if I stated it as the truth. However, since it was a pontification I can't be wrong. No, what is wrong is your trolling.

Suggesting that you quit being a putz isn't an insult, it's sage advice. Advice that you continue to ignore. Brand bashing........keep digging, you're not there yet.

Oh yeah, welcome to my BOZO list.

nguyendot

You guys are too funny.

Inspector 24

Ginn

F1nut wrote: »

You'll have to pull the crossovers out. A burnt resistor is pretty easy to spot.

You guy's are friggen hilarious. I thought this playful banter only happened on the Audizine forum.

Anyway's F1 do you think it's just a resister? How would I know if I pulled out the crossover?

If it's not a resister, what do you think it would be?

Thanks

Ginn

Inspector 24 wrote: »

Aaah, leaves the boards intact? Perhaps that could explain it. I almost bought a set of LSi's that didn't have all the tweeters working, after the demo the guy gave me I wasn't surprised, pumping the volume that high with just an AVR…yikes…Also bought a CSi5 with a non-working tweet, also a cooked resistor, easy fix.

Also curious what the seller was driving them with. And how loud he played them for you?

Just a heads up he was using a 7.1 - 105w per channel receiver. He was playing jazz so I guess I missed them sounding subdued.
Even at high levels the sound way to muffled. It's not like they're a little bit off, there is defiantly something wrong with them.

Inspector 24

Sounding more and more like fried resistors and/or tweeters.

F1nut

Ginn wrote: »

You guy's are friggen hilarious. I thought this playful banter only happened on the Audizine forum.

Anyway's F1 do you think it's just a resister? How would I know if I pulled out the crossover?

If it's not a resister, what do you think it would be?

Thanks

Gotta liven this place up once in a while. :twisted:

Most likely it is the resistor. You will see small white rectangular blocks on the board. If one is cooked it will show signs of too much heat such as brown to black color on and/or around the resistor. It's hard to miss when it's no longer pure white. Of course, you can always post a good pic for us to peer at.

It could also be the tweeters.......and the resistors. Start with pulling a crossover.

Edit: I see nbrowser addressed your question already.