Separate Subs for 2-Channel System

kevhed72
kevhed72 Posts: 5,054
edited November 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
POLL for the Forum: Is it WORTH THE EFFORT to run dedicated power lines / outlets for 2 (two) subwoofers in a dedicated 2-channel system (assuming room will be built from 'scratch')?

A. YES
B. NO
C. Split the difference and run BOTH subs off one dedicated circuit
Post edited by kevhed72 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited November 2013
    Since you're building the room from scratch then most definitely run the separate line for the subs & dedicated lines for the main system also. Do it all now while the room is easy to make all the runs.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    edited November 2013
    If it were me, I would run 4 dedicated, 20 amp capable outlets. You can always put a 15 amp outlet in a 20 amp circuit. Mono/stereo/multichannel amps on one or 2 outlets, one or 2 subs on one outlet, and conditioner/rest of rig on fourth.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited November 2013
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If it were me, I would run 4 dedicated, 20 amp capable outlets. You can always put a 15 amp outlet in a 20 amp circuit. Mono/stereo/multichannel amps on one or 2 outlets, one or 2 subs on one outlet, and conditioner/rest of rig on fourth.

    +1. imo
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited November 2013
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If it were me, I would run 4 dedicated, 20 amp capable outlets. You can always put a 15 amp outlet in a 20 amp circuit.
    There's no need for the 15A outlet, as the 20A outlet will also accommodate NEMA 5-15 plugs.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 5,054
    edited November 2013
    My thought now is to run 3 dedicated circuits:
    1. Integrated amp
    2. 2 subs to go with 703 bookshelves
    3. Power conditioner for everything else

    I am contemplating upgrading the service panel myself, but we'll see....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2013
    I would probably run 1 30amp ckt, as I have never had an issue with a single 15amp ckt, even back in the days of running 600watts/rms (1200 watts peak!) w/bridged amps.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 5,054
    edited November 2013
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I would probably run 1 30amp ckt, as I have never had an issue with a single 15amp ckt, even back in the days of running 600watts/rms (1200 watts peak!) w/bridged amps.

    Please clarify....ckt(?)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,442
    edited November 2013
    CKT= circuit
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited November 2013
    Hello, kevhed72 and good afternoon to you. You may find this discussion of some interest since you are building from scratch. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?9426-Dedicated-lines-and-properly-integrated-grounding-A-discussion

    Now with that said..."is it worth the effort?" Well, I will put it to you like this. I read this somewhere recently and the analogy simply makes sense to me.....[this is not word for word but roll with it, if you will].....

    Dedicated lines you may want to consider something like that of a boat. Consider one dedicated line as one 75Hp outboard motor on a boat. Consider adding another dedicated line as adding another 75Hp outboard motor. Sure the first motor will get you going and it will get you there but when going against headwinds and current, that second motor will sure help you along the way.

    I am a strong advocate of proper power, as I have heard what it can do for a system. Especially a system that stands out amongst the others.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited November 2013
    I'm not sure about a 30 Amp circuit, as you can't incorporate 15 or 20 Amp receptacle's into it.

    For those doing big multi-circuit rooms. Run just one high current line from the main breaker box to a central point in the room. Then into a small breaker box to the individual circuits. The idea being to reduce the length of the runs from component to component.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 5,054
    edited November 2013
    Well, here's a follow up question on this whole idea - since my breaker box is currently full (ie no open circuits to use), how many of you would attempt to replace your current box with a higher-capacity one. I spoke to someone who installs HVAC and was told I need to measure the told AMPS being pulled by all the existing circuits to see if upgrading the box was possible.

    Thoughts....has anyone attempted this themselves?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited November 2013
    Now, that is a very dangerous idea! With no fuses on the other side of the breaker box, a mistake and you could have 10,000 Amps at 240 Volts to deal with. And no, the HVAC guy doesn't know anything about it either.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • polk500
    polk500 Posts: 1,171
    edited November 2013
    Have you thought of a sub panel relatively easy to install and cheaper then pulling apart your existing main panel. and then as speedskater suggested a small panel in a central panel in your media room.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Habanero Monk
    Habanero Monk Posts: 715
    edited November 2013
    I would figure our what your total power demand is. Remember when you start pulling dedicated circuits ground is referenced at the wall outlet and that means a higher potential of ground loop hum with multiple outlets. You may be causing more problems then fixing any perceived deficiency.

    Consider pulling a single 20 AMP circuit, save the money from the other pulled lines and instead get a +60/0/-60 balanced power supply for everything except the amps.

    Another useful poll is to see how many people trip their 20AMP service on a regular basis. You could install a Kill-a-watt and see what your power draw actually is.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited November 2013
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Well, here's a follow up question on this whole idea - since my breaker box is currently full (ie no open circuits to use), how many of you would attempt to replace your current box with a higher-capacity one. I spoke to someone who installs HVAC and was told I need to measure the told AMPS being pulled by all the existing circuits to see if upgrading the box was possible.

    Thoughts....has anyone attempted this themselves?

    When it comes to stuff that is either a) very technical or b) can kill you if you screw up... I call in a pro. That said Disneyjoe7, and maybe Serendipity IIRC did some electrical mod's to his house not too long ago, so shoot him a PM. All that said (see below)
    polk500 wrote: »
    Have you thought of a sub panel relatively easy to install and cheaper then pulling apart your existing main panel. and then as speedskater suggested a small panel in a central panel in your media room.

    I would think this would be a better option for you and possibly cheaper. Doing this you could get all your HT items on one box totally independent of any of the other ones.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited November 2013
    And here we go:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?120229-Upgrading-Electrical-Service-anyone-DIY

    And

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?102110-My-work-in-progress...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited November 2013
    OK, so here is the deal on upgrading your main breaker box (panel board). What you really need is more circuit breakers, most people don't need higher amperage (but higher amp boxes don't cost much more. The limiting factor is how much the power company service to your house is rated for.

    As to how much you need for the room's audio system. Everything with the exceptions of big power amps and video projectors should be wired to one 20 Amp breaker. You can check the big equipment's label or fuse for it's max current.

    So if you have someone that can let the electrician into the house during the day, check at the small local shops or maybe someone at church does side jobs. So offer him a low priority job, that he can do if his planned job gets canceled or delayed. Offer to pay him in cash and to pay for the parts when they are delivered to your house.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited November 2013
    Speedskater wrote: »
    I'm not sure about a 30 Amp circuit, as you can't incorporate 15 or 20 Amp receptacle's into it.
    The only way to use a true 30A circuit is with an L5-30 (locking type) plug. You really only find those used on pro power distros. IMHO, a true 30A circuit (30A breaker/10AWG wire/30A receptacle) is not necessary except for a small number of rare very high powered amps or on a power distro supplying several pieces of equipment. Unless you have a pure class A amp drawing more than 16 amps continuous, a 20A circuit will work just fine.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited November 2013
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Well, here's a follow up question on this whole idea - since my breaker box is currently full (ie no open circuits to use), how many of you would attempt to replace your current box with a higher-capacity one. I spoke to someone who installs HVAC and was told I need to measure the told AMPS being pulled by all the existing circuits to see if upgrading the box was possible.

    Thoughts....has anyone attempted this themselves?
    It may not be necessary to replace your panel. You maye be able to get away with the addition of a subpanel to gain a few additional breaker spaces. You need to have an electrician calculate your demand load and advise you accordingly. The appropriate panel size is based on total SF of residential space and demand load.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter