Squeezebox Classic - dipping my feet in

EndersShadow

Got a Squeezebox classic incoming (Thanks Rooftop59) that has a LONG Polkie lineage. From H9 to Assimilated to Rooftop and now to Me. While a Touch would be nice, I dong have the space or scratch. Plus I am hoping since its so small the WAF factor will be fine. Since I dont have any high rez sources and will be just FLAC and MOG to my Integra via TosLink figured this was a good route, and got a great price on my unit .

In preparation for this I have my entire library combined into one folder on my computer upstairs that is on 24/7. I have the tags are configured how I want for genre, etc. The main computer is hardwired to my network. There is a gigabit switch in my HT rack so I will be going wired simply because there is no reason not too. I will be installing the Squeezebox software as well hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

I also know there are some suggested tweaks that may or may not be applicable to my Classic but I plan on checking them all out: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html.

Some things I need help with:

1. I know that a upgraded power-supply is recommended so I found some options (Thanks Ryan for your help!). Now I just want to know if an option wont work. I realize there is a large disparity between these models in cost and possibly in sound but to be honest I am looking at just the first 3 and more likely first 2. I may buy a better one later on but this system is my starter Logitech one and if all works well will eventually be the source for my 8 months old setup, or a secondary system elsewhere. Anything I need to know about my listed power supply options? Also keep in mind this is a CLASSIC not a TOUCH, so IIRC the voltages are different.

• ELPAC - 15 bucks: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELPAC-POWER-SYSTEMS-SOLV-30-5-N-OVP-5V-6A-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-/290821860664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b6556d38
• Digikey - 20 bucks: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=271-2579-ND&x=17&y=16
• Teralink - 150 bucks: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Squeezebox-3-SB3-Upgraded-Power-Supply-/300846782670?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item460bdd98ce
• Wellborne - 230 bucks (some response time issues as of late) http://www.welbornelabs.com/cat/squeezeboxpowersupplyupgrades.htm
• CIAudio - 260 bucks http://ciaudio.com/products/VDCSB

2. I am wondering what the best app to use for control is on my HTC One. I dont want to hassle with the included remote at all.

3. Finally, anything I am overlooking?

WLDock

Congrats on the move. Myself, I plan to explore and start ripping my CD's at some point. I'm the type that never got into MP3's or iPods, etc. But, its 2013 and time to jump on board the network media bandwagon and eplore lossless and other formats.

Blownrx7

Another PS option is this:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=120-536 It's also available at MCM electronics.
I use one with my Duet and another with my Squeezebox (I changed a resistor value to get exactly+5v) and both work great. I have a Welborne PS on my Touch and to be honest, I'm not giving up much with these 20 buck supplies (be sure to buy the connector assortment too)

EndersShadow

Blownrx7 wrote: »

Another PS option is this:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=120-536 It's also available at MCM electronics.
I use one with my Duet and another with my Squeezebox (I changed a resistor value to get exactly+5v) and both work great. I have a Welborne PS on my Touch and to be honest, I'm not giving up much with these 20 buck supplies (be sure to buy the connector assortment too)

How would that work since it's got a positive and negative output? The other ones seem pretty straight forward, just plug and play.

heiney9

Might want to do some more research on the EL-PAC. I had a modded one when I had that Classic and the one you linked to looks nothing like it and even unmodded 5-6 years ago they were $70+ dollars. From my foggy recollection only one model ELPAC will work and the one you link to doesn't seem to be it.

Wonder what happened to the ELPAC I had with that. I think Assimilated kept it after he sold the Classic to Rooftop.

H9

rooftop59

Yep Danny kept it and adjusted the price accordingly. I actuallyll found a computer adapter and spliced it so I could use it with an upgraded power cord. That is a potential cheap option...

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

Might want to do some more research on the EL-PAC. I had a modded one when I had that Classic and the one you linked to looks nothing like it and even unmodded 5-6 years ago they were $70+ dollars. From my foggy recollection only one model ELPAC will work and the one you link to doesn't seem to be it.

Wonder what happened to the ELPAC I had with that. I think Assimilated kept it after he sold the Classic to Rooftop.

H9

Any thoughts on the digikey one Brock?

I saw a couple posts linking to that elpac but no verification it worked as of yet.

SCompRacer

EndersShadow wrote: »

Any thoughts on the digikey one Brock?

'Power Supply Type - Switching'

It's a switching power supply. Some folks prefer a linear power supply. Plenty of debate on both sides. My original Touch switching supply gave a poor pattern on a scope. My linear nice and steady. YMMV.

EndersShadow

SCompRacer wrote: »

'Power Supply Type - Switching'

It's a switching power supply. Some folks prefer a linear power supply. Plenty of debate on both sides. My original Touch switching supply gave a poor pattern on a scope. My linear nice and steady. YMMV.

Darn.... Back to the drawing board....

looks like the 150 one or possible the parts express one may be my best option... The 150 dollar one will take some saving for but it will also work with a touch if I ever get one....

SCompRacer

You can read up on AC adapters here, modes of operation. The Logitech forum has threads on it as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_adapter

In regards to soundcheck tweaks, some folks swear by them. I ended up doing a factory reset to delete the modded config file in my Touch. The only thing I kept was server-side flac to PCM conversion. That I could select in the Logitech software.

EndersShadow

SCompRacer wrote: »

You can read up on AC adapters here, modes of operation. The Logitech forum has threads on it as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_adapter

In regards to soundcheck tweaks, some folks swear by them. I ended up doing a factory reset to delete the modded config file in my Touch. The only thing I kept was server-side flac to PCM conversion. That I could select in the Logitech software.

Thanks for the heads up Rich...

In doing some more digging I found this item which I am not quite sure what it does. It looks like its inserted between your wallwart and the squeezebox. Beyond that no idea.. Thoughts?

I am honestly at this point debating just waiting it out and upgrading to the TeraDak Squeezebox Touch PSU which has a higher rating than the classic since its for the touch. This way if I ever upgrade I dont have to upgrade the powersupply as well.

It also helps both are the same price

For those of you with more knowledge of building things than me, I ran across this statement. If possible take a look at it and the pics of the internals of the TeraDak and give me your thoughts:

It wouldn't pass any electrical safety tests where I work.

Heat shrink isn't there to look pretty. It's there to prevent wiring springing onto other connections should the solder joints fail (which they do with age and shock). There isn't any on the earth wire to the case.

The wiring to the PCB should be further secured with a compound like RTV3145 sealant (NOT heat gun glue) or Captain tape. Those wires are tightly packed putting extra stress on the joints.

The jumpers on the PCB are not secured to prevent them falling off. Again RTV would do the job.

On a closer look, it doesn't appear to have neutral on the mains IEC connector connected. This will trip any RCD.

EndersShadow

It came in yesterday and I got it up and running quickly this evening for a quick test run. Initially all I can say is the software was intuitive and easy to configure. I got a lot to learn to really dive into the settings, but I think I have a decent handle on it since its playing music right now. Haven't had time to really test it as I didnt want to pull out my rack tonight so I hooked it up in my office upstairs.

Like downstairs its connected via optical, so no worries about any DAC issues.

The tags on my library are almost correct, so I have some cleanup to do on that using MediaMonkey, but I am confident I will be able to take care of that in short order.

P.S. the Analog VU display on the unit is pretty cool I have to admit .

tonyb

Glad to see you getting your digital on. If you like the classic, keep an eye out for a bargain on a touch. Takes it to another level that will please even a cord chewing baby.

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Glad to see you getting your digital on. If you like the classic, keep an eye out for a bargain on a touch. Takes it to another level that will please even a cord chewing baby.

Yeah, thats why when I get a upgrade powersupply I am getting the one for the touch since it needs a PSU with more power.

I am pretty heavily invested in digital already since my main source for 2 channel is my computer, and I normally stream that same stuff over my laptop (which this device replaces) to my HT setup. All my CD's are now FLAC on my computer and I am looking at building out a 8 TB NAS if not larger because my digital library is growing exponentially. Or I could just keep adding HDD's to this main computer since its got 8 SATA ports and only 1 really needs to be in use (for the OS drive). If the right deal comes along on the WD Red 3 TB internal drives I plan to snap up 3 of them and throw 2 in this computer and one in my little headphone rig to hold me over for a couple months.


I figured if I really like it, which so far its pretty cool (and can get my wife onboard) I will wait for that right unit and upgrade to the Touch for downstairs (and I might know where a Touch or two are that may be for sale in teh near future) . Then this classic becomes Skye's new streaming device, or if we are in a house possibly a Zone 2 for an outdoor patio, a Kitchen setup, etc. If its in Skye's room I already have some cheap (free) cheap Sony speakers that are small enough to put on Skye's dresser, and will probably get a little t-amp at some point to connect it to and then use this to either be a noise machine when we need it (rain drops, white noise, etc), or play her music to help her get to sleep.

Then later on she can use it to play daddys music, MOG and Pandora.

I do like that this also has a headphone out so I could in theory use it in the bedroom to listen to all my music and not disturb the wife.

Right now the main thing was the initial buy in cost was very very low.

eeagle

For Android control I use "Squeeze Control"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.angrygoat.android.sqzctrl&hl=en

Love the VU meters on the Classic as well....always wish I had picked up a Transporter when Logitech closed them out for last Dec for $750.

mdaudioguy

Apps:

I use Squeeze Commander. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.cedata.android.squeezecommander&hl=en

But, there's nothing wrong with free! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.logitech.squeezeboxremote&hl=en

steveinaz

I have the CIA PS and like it very well, they have a new version called the MKII. but I'm satisfied with mine. Just downloaded iPeng for my iphone4 (a whopping $5.99), when I get home tonight, I'll try it out.

EndersShadow

Thanks for letting me know Steve. I think i will be going with the TeraDak Squeezebox PSU which is 150 so its a bit cheaper than the CIAudio one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Squeezebox-Touch-Upgraded-Power-Supply-5Vdc-3A-/281071744127?pt=Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item41712e747f

I am still using the stock Squeezebox controller app and honestly havent had any issues with it yet, so I am going to just keep playing with it.

MOG integration is PHENOMENAL. I have enjoyed being able to augment my library with just about anything I can think of.

Skye is loving it too as she loves music time with Daddy

She also likes Run DMC, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, Aerosmith, TobyMac, The Glitch Mob, NERO and Skrillex.....

EndersShadow

So its been a little under two weeks and well here's the final verdict.

You want the Squeezebox... youll have to pry it from my hand. It may not have the best DAC's and cant decode super high rez stuff, but man does it just make accessing the music EASY.

I can find anything I want, throw it on next and just jam out. Thats what its about, the music. Skye loves watching the analog VU meter screen jump as well.

My wife is enjoying it too since we can listen to whatever we want which for her includes backstreet boys.

This device has changed the way I listen to music. I foresee a couple forum members snagging a couple classics here in the next little bit. I am looking at you trav0821 & bored184. I think if you grab one you will be super happy.

I can see moving up to a touch if I had space in my rack (which I dont right now). I am content with this baby and may buy a couple more as gifts for family and friends and as backups. Cant beat it since they seem to run around 100 - 150 max.

steveinaz

Bev & I like to take turns picking a year, and then we play 1 song from each album in that year. The other night we did 1984, 1994, and 2003. It's a fun way to rediscover what you forgot you had.

Enjoy your SQB. BTW the iPeng app is outstanding; though I find myself grabbing the SQB controller more often than not. Either one is equally easy to use.

recoveryone

Glad you are enjoying the classic and the world of DAR's (Digital Audio Receivers), If I was you, just enjoy the music and get your collection in order. All the talk about PSU upgrading is very dependant on the consistant current that runs in your home. Most people that worry the most about this are Europeans that have poor consistant current in their homes. Now unless you are feeding these through a 10k system that is very critical of every factor/flaw you will not notice the difference. If you are really looking to step of to the top of the line Squeezebox/Slimdevice gear, keep your eye open for a used Transporter, most can be had for around 1k. The Touch is nice and some say it is close to the transporter, but its more of the screen view of album art that many like than the perference of sound.

eeagle

Sad that Logitech decided to discontinue the Squeezebox system, glad you're enjoying the classic!

I particularly enjoy syncing multiple squeezebox systems in my home.

I like many in this forum have systems in different rooms that are fun to compare. A few years back I would burn CDs and try to sync them on the different systems to compare. Now I just sync the squeezeboxes and have a great walk-about listening experience.

Another fun thing is all apps (many FREE) that can access your collection from a PC, tablet or phone, which will allow not only playback from the device, but control of the whole squeezebox system as well.

Oh and don't forget the bedside radio....Logitech still makes this and the new model can even be downgraded to the old firmware (really an upgrade).

steveinaz

recoveryone wrote: »

The Touch is nice and some say it is close to the transporter, but its more of the screen view of album art that many like than the perference of sound.

If you already have a good external DAC, the transporter is really not needed (nor the extra expense). As far as an aftermarket PS, I think the performance of the Touch justifies this relatively inexpensive upgrade. Just my opinion.

rooftop59

I have 2 duets, one with a boulder ps. HUGE and easily apparent difference. Much blacker background, details stand out and are easier to hear. Now is it worth the money? That's always the question. FYI, H9 or someone had a graph here that displayed how much LESS noise you get with a boulder ps, on a standard usa outlet, and the graph shows the difference is not subtle.

Glad you are enjoying the SB Dan. I have been saying the same thing ever since I first got that from Danny: especially if you have young kids in the house, the SB will revolutionize how you listen to music. The fact that even the classic is a very good transport with respectable DACS is icing on the cake IMH...

EndersShadow

rooftop59 wrote: »

I have 2 duets, one with a boulder ps. HUGE and easily apparent difference. Much blacker background, details stand out and are easier to hear. Now is it worth the money? That's always the question. FYI, H9 or someone had a graph here that displayed how much LESS noise you get with a boulder ps, on a standard usa outlet, and the graph shows the difference is not subtle.

Think one of these pics are the ones your referring too.

Stock wallwart:

Boulder Linear PSU:

They came from this review.

IIRC the Classics benefit MUCH MORE than the Touch's as the Touch PSU while not great wasnt nearly as bad as the classics.

rooftop59 wrote: »

Glad you are enjoying the SB Dan. I have been saying the same thing ever since I first got that from Danny: especially if you have young kids in the house, the SB will revolutionize how you listen to music. The fact that even the classic is a very good transport with respectable DACS is icing on the cake IMH...

Yeah, I am optical to my Integra so I dont use its DAC's as I believe my Integras are a bit better.

As a FYI I think I have converted a couple local IN members to getting them after seeing how easy it was to use mine.

rooftop59

EndersShadow wrote: »

IIRC the Classics benefit MUCH MORE than the Touch's as the Touch PSU while not great wasnt nearly as bad as the classics.

And I would imagine the duet is closer to the classic on that since the extra money went into the controller...

EndersShadow

rooftop59 wrote: »

And I would imagine the duet is closer to the classic on that since the extra money went into the controller...

Agreed.

heiney9

I had a Classic and I have a Touch in both instances a linear external power supply was an audible improvement. If you get serious about either one being the main music source in a system you need to bite the bullet and get one.

H9

heiney9

EndersShadow wrote: »

IIRC the Classics benefit MUCH MORE than the Touch's as the Touch PSU while not great wasnt nearly as bad as the classics.

Define "much more", either way they both benefit. I won't quantify as they both exhibited audible improvements when using an external linear supply. That's good enough for me. I for one am always chasing even the smallest improvement (within reason and we all have our own personal threshold of what's reasonable) as I have found many small improvements have a cumulative effect which is very positive.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

Define "much more"

Well since you asked .

Let me rephrase, I believe the powersupply in the Touch is a better unit than the one in the Classic. Just like the DAC's are better than the Classics. As product lines progress normally they build off the success and failures of the previous product. Perfect example is that the original Classic ended up being a pretty big failure as a wireless device due to needing to constantly buffer. The v2 and v3 didnt have this issue, but they didnt have the best DAC's or the ability to decode 24/192. Then came the touch, etc.

heiney9 wrote: »

....either way they both benefit. I won't quantify as they both exhibited audible improvements when using an external linear supply. That's good enough for me. I for one am always chasing even the smallest improvement (within reason and we all have our own personal threshold of what's reasonable) as I have found many small improvements have a cumulative effect which is very positive.

Agreed. Its an investment I will make eventually however I have some other items on my list that will make a MORE noticeable improvement to do before I hit that one.