Legacy Amplifiers

erniejade
erniejade Posts: 6,288
edited November 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
Anyone ever heard any of the Coda built Legacy amps? I was looking at a Legacy Power bloc 600 but tying that in a search doesn't pull up much outside that its 300 watts per and Coda built. Too many car amplifiers pull up when you go to a generic legacy amplifier search or legacy audio amplifier search.

I was thinking of picking one up to try on the focus I have. Any 411 on the Legacy amps would be wonderful.
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Post edited by erniejade on
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited October 2013
    Never heard one Ern, they have a limited production which may be why you don't see many. Never heard anyone say anything bad about them, but then again never heard of anyone going out of their way for them either. My suggestion to you, Go McCormack dna250 or higher. I'm still diggin' my Butler on my Focus, that pairing isn't changing anytime soon unless a McCormack DNA 500 falls of a truck in front of me.

    McCormack, like the Butler, bridges those gaps between SS and tubed amps. Nice soundstage, good imaging, iron fist on the lower regions yet can still treat the highs like a feather.....like tubes do. Not the best looking amps around, but certainly one of the best sounding which is why you never see many up for sale on the used market. Both brands, McCormack and Butler rarely come up used for sale and for good reason.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    Coda sometimes gets a bad rap cause they will build for others. My InnerSound gear originated from Coda designs with input from Sanders to double the transistors and add a larger toroidal. I've had InnerSound and Coda pre amps and phono stages. Great gear. Coda was started by two of Threshold design members.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    I came up with this old audiocircle FS post, not sure if all the links work.

    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31507.0

    As with any old amp, the possibility of recapping exists.

    EDIT: try this as a search 'coda legacy amplifier audioasylum'

    https://www.google.com/#q=coda+legacy+amplifier+audioasylum
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited October 2013
    Correct Rich, Coda made a lot of stuff for others or had partnerships in building other gear. Now they are on their own doing their own gear out right. Tad bit pricey if you ask me. Their concept is not strange to any of us, use simple designs and quality components. But how they sound....I dunno. Be kinda hard to demo one since they are higher end and not readily available.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited October 2013
    The Moscode 401, I believe that's right, is another killer amp that would pair well with the Focus. Truthfully, having a 95 efficiency rating makes any amp compatible, but having multiple drivers like the Focus does takes current to start and stop all those drivers. Some flare of tubes somewhere in the system really makes them shine.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    How about quicksilver silver 90 mono?
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited October 2013
    Always dug their amps, but aren't the mono 90's from like mid 1990's ? Make sure you get a set that has some updating done but otherwise I like their sound and see no reason why they wouldn't pair well.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    Rich its funny you mentioned InnerSound. That was another one I was looking at. The ESL300 mkII
    audioasylum is where I was looking at the legacy coda.
    I did call Legacy and talked to Doug. He said the same thing, they didn't sell a lot of it and that's why they didn't even have an online manual for the powerbloc 600. He also mentioned when they do a lot of their voicing, the do use mainly Coda amps but, Bill loves the McIntosh amps.



    The Sunfire has served me well for a long time and sounds even better after Rolland did his thing to it. Sometimes you just get the itch. Im not going to call it an upgrade itch because I am sure we have all gone though gear and got rid of something that was better then what replaced it just to change it up. (not that something like that was intentional but, it does happen)

    Now I did email the seller of the legacy amp, he said he used to have 2 different sets of Legacy Whispers. He said his favorite amp on the whispers was the quicksilver mono silver 90 so, I started looking around at them also.

    The other amp I was looking at is a McIntosh MC352 but, right now that is about 1000$ out of my range. I would like to keep in about $2000 and for that, there is a LOT to choose from. Without hearing them I have to rely on the ears of others and because of that, I try to make sure they are solid brands that can resell just in case its not a good match for my rig or I get that change itch.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    Krell KSA-250 is another one I was looking at but the seller said pick up only in Boston area since its about 140 lbs.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    erniejade wrote: »
    Krell KSA-250 is another one I was looking at but the seller said pick up only in Boston area since its about 140 lbs.

    Oh yeah, the KSA-250 could be a lifetime amp. Had one here not long ago but it didn't match gain with my active bass amp so I let it go. You get some folks that bad rap the Krell but they still have quite a following. There were three revisions of the KSA-250 amp, the first one identified by binding post location, the other by innards and higher bias (rev 3). There were some caps on the soft start board of the later revisions that could be cooked by resistors nearby so worth it to pop the top of one and check it out. Some say just recap them. I had what looked like a very low use beauty, no heat marks at all.

    My active bass amp is InnerSound (600WPC @ 4). I upgraded to a Sanders ESL amp for my panels which is based on the InnerSound MK II amp, but with even larger potted toroidal and better transistors. ~ 700WPC at 4 Ohms IIRC.

    The InnerSound MK II is a great amp, but avoid the first version. The second version can be ID'd by WBT binding posts.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    tonyb wrote: »
    Correct Rich, Coda made a lot of stuff for others or had partnerships in building other gear. Now they are on their own doing their own gear out right. Tad bit pricey if you ask me. Their concept is not strange to any of us, use simple designs and quality components. But how they sound....I dunno. Be kinda hard to demo one since they are higher end and not readily available.

    I haven't heard their latest and greatest either, only the early stuff. Solid design though. And they will service the InnerSound/Legacy gear too.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    Carl has a Classe DR-25 driving his SDA's. Nice amp! They don't pop up too often.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    Thanks for the 411 on the Krell and the InnerSound. I did not know they had different versions! The search continues!

    The quicksilver I was looking at was recapped but, it still has the dang strip terminals that are too small for regular spades like the McIntosh stuff before they went with normal terminals. Way too many options.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited October 2013
    lol....yes Sir, many options await you. I'll throw another you may not have thought of. Since your happy with the Sunfire, for now anyway, why not sell the Focus for around 2 g's, put the other 2'g's into that and pick up a demo set of Focus HD's ?
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    Many directions to go all right.

    Just a little more 411 about the InnerSound ESL amps. The original or first version ESL amp had a small amount of local feedback with no global feedback. The result was it needed higher bias to keep distortion low. The amp ran warm and didn't control the bass quite as tightly as the second version. The first version was OK for an ESL speaker but not a conventional speaker; the MK II will work well with both.

    I was close to digging into retirement funds and forking over $8K to Salk (RAAL ribbon tweet, Accuton midrange) just to keep that Krell. Sometimes wants can override the reality of happiness and contentment with a system...lol
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited October 2013
    I tried the Coda built Legacy Class A/AB High Current Amp (220W x 2) back in the 1990s. It was Legacy's first amp. I recall it as fairly neutral sounding, and able to keep its composure at high output levels.

    legacy_class_a_ab_high_current_amp_zps23083442.jpg~original
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    . Sometimes wants can override the reality of happiness and contentment with a system...lol

    Wise words!!!!!!!!!! That is the quote of the day!!!!

    Had a line on a dr 25. They sold it faster then I could pull the trigger. So frustrating.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited October 2013
    Yeah, the DR's have a following. Carl says he paid $1300 for his.

    Glen, thanks for sharing your experience. Here are the InnerSound MK II and Sanders ESL amps based on the original Coda design. Same basic design, big caps under board. Sanders uses a larger potted toroidal. The third is my InnerSound MK II active crossover bass amp (600WPC @ 4). The removed four 10,000uf caps to make room for the active only leaving 40,000uf; kind of lean for an amp of that capacity IMO. I added a couple boards in the open space and used a greater quantity of smaller uf caps to get closer to 80,000uf. Now I can play dubstep without it running out of reserve. ;)
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,481
    edited November 2013
    Rich you never fail to amaze me in you skills
    Nice work
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited November 2013
    Seconded. Nicely done cap upgrade.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited November 2013
    erniejade wrote: »
    Wise words!!!!!!!!!! That is the quote of the day!!!!

    Had a line on a dr 25. They sold it faster then I could pull the trigger. So frustrating.
    There is a DR-25 on Audiogon right now at asking price of $1,400.00. The seller is entertaining offers, so it may be obtainable for less. The one caveat is the seller has zero feedback.

    Class
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited November 2013
    that is the one that said he sold. nanoav(No Feedback)
    Sunnyvale, CA 94087 (United States)
    nanoavOctober 31, 2013 1:23am
    Thank you for the update.

    I have two dr25 and a local buyer took both of them home to test them in his system. They were listed locally for 2 each.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited November 2013
    I just sent him another email. He sent me his number. I am going to call him now.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    edited November 2013
    The guy can talk wow. As it now turns out, the other person did take both but, only paid for one and was supposed to pay him today for the other one but hasn't. Sooo..... It might be mine. I told him before I would send funds, to make sure he has the amp back and nothing happened to it.
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,328
    edited November 2013
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Rich you never fail to amaze me in you skills
    Nice work

    You got that right! Amazing skills and a real gentleman. He's also experienced in hiding dead hookers.
    Carl

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited November 2013
    schwarcw wrote: »
    You got that right! Amazing skills and a real gentleman. He's also experienced in hiding dead hookers.

    Hmmm....dead hookers huh ?

    I kinda like mine with a wee bit of life left in them. Makes the experience soo much better. But I guess being dead has one benefit anyway, you don't have to pay them.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited November 2013
    Thanks for the kind words....and Tony, we just need to get some that can take it is all.;) But that's how Carl is able to grow his Banana plant over seven feet tall in PA. lol

    Seems like we just planted that Carl....
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • lawdogg
    lawdogg Posts: 449
    edited August 2018
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Here are the InnerSound MK II and Sanders ESL amps based on the original Coda design. Same basic design, big caps under board. Sanders uses a larger potted toroidal. The third is my InnerSound MK II active crossover bass amp (600WPC @ 4). The removed four 10,000uf caps to make room for the active only leaving 40,000uf; kind of lean for an amp of that capacity IMO. I added a couple boards in the open space and used a greater quantity of smaller uf caps to get closer to 80,000uf. Now I can play dubstep without it running out of reserve. ;)

    @SCompRacer Sorry to dig up an old post - but nice work. I just got my hands on a Legacy Audio High Current amplifier (an early one, like the one in Glen B's post above) that I am planning to swap in for my NAD 2200 to drive my 3.1TLs. The Legacy Audio High Current amp is a Coda, so I thought I'd ask you for upgrade advice. I'd love to turn it up a notch if possible.

    Thanks,
    Ryan

    Here's mine:

    B1gj0LTl.jpg
    <3 my 3.1TLs

    I will fix your shifted magnets for free. :)
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited August 2018
    lawdogg wrote: »

    @SCompRacer Sorry to dig up an old post - but nice work. I just got my hands on a Legacy Audio High Current amplifier (an early one, like the one in Glen B's post above) that I am planning to swap in for my NAD 2200 to drive my 3.1TLs. The Legacy Audio High Current amp is a Coda, so I thought I'd ask you for upgrade advice. I'd love to turn it up a notch if possible.

    Thanks,
    Ryan

    Here's mine:

    B1gj0LTl.jpg

    Greetings Ryan! No need to be sorry! Those are great amps.

    As far as upgrading, I can't offer any advice for that. The only thing I can offer is the caps may be aged and need replacing.

    On the active crossover bass amp, InnerSound only had two large caps per channel 20,000uf per channel (40,000uf total) where you have four caps or 40,000uf per channel, (80,000uf total).

    I added two boards and used eight smaller caps per channel to arrive at the 80,000uf capacitiance.

    I'm guessing you could find the same value 10,000uf caps and install them in original location.

    Only other way to hotrod it would be to change the bias, but that would require someone smarter than I.

    u8nd5t2m7dr5.jpg


    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • lawdogg
    lawdogg Posts: 449
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Greetings Ryan! No need to be sorry! Those are great amps.

    As far as upgrading, I can't offer any advice for that. The only thing I can offer is the caps may be aged and need replacing.

    On the active crossover bass amp, InnerSound only had two large caps per channel 20,000uf per channel (40,000uf total) where you have four caps or 40,000uf per channel, (80,000uf total).

    I added two boards and used eight smaller caps per channel to arrive at the 80,000uf capacitiance.

    I'm guessing you could find the same value 10,000uf caps and install them in original location.

    Only other way to hotrod it would be to change the bias, but that would require someone smarter than I.

    Ah, I see what you did, fantastic! Thanks! I suppose I'll just run this and see how it goes. I'm curious to learn more about these amps as I am not digging up too much online. It looks like yours has twice as many output transformers as mine, wow!
    <3 my 3.1TLs

    I will fix your shifted magnets for free. :)