Forgot what good sound is.
Alan_r
Posts: 164
Hello everyone. I have been out of the audio scene for quite some time. Always had a good stereo setup on my "to do" wishlist but between sailboats and Jeeps, never had the spare money. Long ago, in the 80's, I had a modest set up, simple Sony 2 channel receiver, Bose 301's and a Denon tape deck. It sounded good enough at the time. Over the next 2 decades, because of my job, (military), I never really bought anything bigger than the JVC, Kenwood, Pioneer "box systems". You know, the integrated systems with a million flashing lights and "super surround" gimmicks that most of us have suffered through at one time or another. Anyway, a few weeks ago I decided to finally put together something to listen to other than my Logitec computer 2.1 system. I remembered a few good brand names and began searching Ebay and Craigslist. I also started to check around at the local Goodwill.
I wanted to put together a simple 2 channel plus subwoofer system in the living room to listen to Pandora and CD's. So the first step was to find a decent quality integrated amp/receiver and work out from there. I had listened to various receivers over the years from Marantz and NAD at friends houses and thought they sounded pretty good. I also remembered that NAD's RMS power ratings were extremely conservative; a NAD 35w receiver was equivalent to a 100w from the cheaper box store brands. So, after a few weeks I started watching a few clean examples on Ebay. They ranged from 1980's NAD 7220/7240 PE's and a few slightly larger receivers. I would watch them and as the minutes counted down, the prices would seriously climb to prices that I thought were excessive given the age of the equipment. People sure value and love the old NAD stuff! Now mind you, I could afford brand new equipment but I felt that used, well taken care of equipment would be a better value. So, just as I was about to pay a couple hundred dollars for a 7240, I noticed a late 90's, NAD C 740 that was ending with no bids. 1 minute to go and I bid $9.99 and won! 10 bucks for a C 740 I believe is a steal. A few days later, it arrived at my doorstep in almost perfect condition and in complete working order. The tape 2 button was pushed in but turned out to be a quick fix.
Next on my list was a decent CD player. After spending hours reading reviews where guys would talk about sound differences between $1000.00 players using big, extravagant vocabularies I came to the conclusion that to my ears, any quality player would do. I even added certain DVD/SACD players to the shopping list. Eventually, I came across a mint, Marantz CD5001 on Ebay. This one cost me a little more than I wanted to spend but it seemed worth it given the condition. I walked away with it for $105.00 shipped.
So far so good, a quick order at Amazon scored 8 gold plated banana plugs and a roll of 16g speaker wire along with a mediabridge 3.5mm to RCA adapter for connecting any portable music player if I should feel the need. Nothing fancy. All this was about $28.00.
Now on to the important part. Speakers. I have never had any first hand experience with Polk products. However, reading a ton of posts on this forum led me to believe that people either hate them or REALLY love them. I was on the fence between the TSI series and the Pioneer Andrew Jones FS52's. I went to Best Buy and listened to the Pioneers. It was a waste of time. The acoustics were horrible and everything was geared towards home theatre. All receiver settings were Max bass and Max treble. Not to mention, at every available demo area, some kid and sales person would crank the volume to max and scream "doesn't that sound good"! No buddy, it doesn't......So, back home to read more reviews. Luckily, I happened to come across a Goodwill ad for a pair of Polk RT600's in excellent condition. Not to mention, they were in Savannah so no shipping charge. I noticed during my research that there was not a lot of information on the web regarding the RT 600's. Regardless, they appeared to be solidly built with quality drivers and a simple but effective setup. The 90db sensitivity should alow the NAD C 740 to drive them well. So at this point I figured I would watch the Goodwill auction and if I didn't win, I would buy the Pioneer's. Three days later, good luck was with me and I scored them for $76.00. When I went to pick them up they were immaculate. The drivers were stiff and the surrounds were perfect. SCORE!!!
So, at this point I have about $219.00 invested. Time to hook it all up and see how it works. Now, I listen to everything from classical to classic rock. Everything from symphony to Sepultura. I am floored with how good these Polk's sound with the NAD and Marantz feeding them. Right now I am listening to Ferruccio Busoni, transcriptions for piano in D minor and C major. Beautiful. The sound is very powerful and accurate. The Polk R600's seem to have enough bass on their own to satisfy and seem to handle intense pieces of music with no problem. NAD, 35w per channel. Yeah...ok. The sound is warm and very comforting. If these speakers were on Polk's low end I can't even imagine what their high end speakers sound like. As luck would have it, a friend went out and bought the Pioneer's I was looking at. He is driving them with a Sherwood(??) receiver rated at 100wpc. To me, they sound OK but not even close to these old Polk's. Compared to the Pioneer FS52's, the Polk RT600's sound effortless. When I close my eyes, the RT600's seem to disappear and I get lost in the music. Maybe the FS52's needed to "break in". Either way, I think for what I have invested, I ended up with a really good sounding system. I am researching Polk's powered subwoofers. The Polk Ebay store has really good prices on these. Right now, I am in between the PSW111 and the DSWPRO550wi. They may be overkill but I saved so much on the other components I can afford to splurge a bit.
Anyway, this turned into a book of a post. I had, over the years, forgotten what a good stereo can bring to the table. I can't seem to turn it off. Every CD comes to life and I get to enjoy the music as much as the first time I heard it. I got so wrapped up in the modern MP3 lifestyle that my ear for what the music is supposed to sound like slowly faded away. Not anymore. I think this old equipment and speaker set have found their new permanent home. It's good to be back. Alan.
I wanted to put together a simple 2 channel plus subwoofer system in the living room to listen to Pandora and CD's. So the first step was to find a decent quality integrated amp/receiver and work out from there. I had listened to various receivers over the years from Marantz and NAD at friends houses and thought they sounded pretty good. I also remembered that NAD's RMS power ratings were extremely conservative; a NAD 35w receiver was equivalent to a 100w from the cheaper box store brands. So, after a few weeks I started watching a few clean examples on Ebay. They ranged from 1980's NAD 7220/7240 PE's and a few slightly larger receivers. I would watch them and as the minutes counted down, the prices would seriously climb to prices that I thought were excessive given the age of the equipment. People sure value and love the old NAD stuff! Now mind you, I could afford brand new equipment but I felt that used, well taken care of equipment would be a better value. So, just as I was about to pay a couple hundred dollars for a 7240, I noticed a late 90's, NAD C 740 that was ending with no bids. 1 minute to go and I bid $9.99 and won! 10 bucks for a C 740 I believe is a steal. A few days later, it arrived at my doorstep in almost perfect condition and in complete working order. The tape 2 button was pushed in but turned out to be a quick fix.
Next on my list was a decent CD player. After spending hours reading reviews where guys would talk about sound differences between $1000.00 players using big, extravagant vocabularies I came to the conclusion that to my ears, any quality player would do. I even added certain DVD/SACD players to the shopping list. Eventually, I came across a mint, Marantz CD5001 on Ebay. This one cost me a little more than I wanted to spend but it seemed worth it given the condition. I walked away with it for $105.00 shipped.
So far so good, a quick order at Amazon scored 8 gold plated banana plugs and a roll of 16g speaker wire along with a mediabridge 3.5mm to RCA adapter for connecting any portable music player if I should feel the need. Nothing fancy. All this was about $28.00.
Now on to the important part. Speakers. I have never had any first hand experience with Polk products. However, reading a ton of posts on this forum led me to believe that people either hate them or REALLY love them. I was on the fence between the TSI series and the Pioneer Andrew Jones FS52's. I went to Best Buy and listened to the Pioneers. It was a waste of time. The acoustics were horrible and everything was geared towards home theatre. All receiver settings were Max bass and Max treble. Not to mention, at every available demo area, some kid and sales person would crank the volume to max and scream "doesn't that sound good"! No buddy, it doesn't......So, back home to read more reviews. Luckily, I happened to come across a Goodwill ad for a pair of Polk RT600's in excellent condition. Not to mention, they were in Savannah so no shipping charge. I noticed during my research that there was not a lot of information on the web regarding the RT 600's. Regardless, they appeared to be solidly built with quality drivers and a simple but effective setup. The 90db sensitivity should alow the NAD C 740 to drive them well. So at this point I figured I would watch the Goodwill auction and if I didn't win, I would buy the Pioneer's. Three days later, good luck was with me and I scored them for $76.00. When I went to pick them up they were immaculate. The drivers were stiff and the surrounds were perfect. SCORE!!!
So, at this point I have about $219.00 invested. Time to hook it all up and see how it works. Now, I listen to everything from classical to classic rock. Everything from symphony to Sepultura. I am floored with how good these Polk's sound with the NAD and Marantz feeding them. Right now I am listening to Ferruccio Busoni, transcriptions for piano in D minor and C major. Beautiful. The sound is very powerful and accurate. The Polk R600's seem to have enough bass on their own to satisfy and seem to handle intense pieces of music with no problem. NAD, 35w per channel. Yeah...ok. The sound is warm and very comforting. If these speakers were on Polk's low end I can't even imagine what their high end speakers sound like. As luck would have it, a friend went out and bought the Pioneer's I was looking at. He is driving them with a Sherwood(??) receiver rated at 100wpc. To me, they sound OK but not even close to these old Polk's. Compared to the Pioneer FS52's, the Polk RT600's sound effortless. When I close my eyes, the RT600's seem to disappear and I get lost in the music. Maybe the FS52's needed to "break in". Either way, I think for what I have invested, I ended up with a really good sounding system. I am researching Polk's powered subwoofers. The Polk Ebay store has really good prices on these. Right now, I am in between the PSW111 and the DSWPRO550wi. They may be overkill but I saved so much on the other components I can afford to splurge a bit.
Anyway, this turned into a book of a post. I had, over the years, forgotten what a good stereo can bring to the table. I can't seem to turn it off. Every CD comes to life and I get to enjoy the music as much as the first time I heard it. I got so wrapped up in the modern MP3 lifestyle that my ear for what the music is supposed to sound like slowly faded away. Not anymore. I think this old equipment and speaker set have found their new permanent home. It's good to be back. Alan.
Post edited by Alan_r on
Comments
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Welcome to Club Polk.
The subs you are looking at are geared towards HT. For music you should look at the DSW MicroPro subs.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Welcome to Club Polk, Alan. Stick around, you'll learn a ton from the friendly folks of this forum - and not just about Polk. Glad you found your way here. Congratulations on your rediscovered love of good music.
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Welcome to the forum.
Now as you stand next to the rabbit hole, take a rope, tie one end to the nearest tree and the other end around your waist as the journey back to the "sound" days is never ending and well worth it! -
Welcome to CP Alan. Enjoyed the read - always good to find bargains."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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If you stay on this forum, be aware that your investment will likely increase greatly as you learn more about the hobby.
Welcome to CP. You're getting into the hobby the right way - cheap with quality parts.
Agreed! Taking the time to do it right, piece by piece, and waiting for the right price is the way to go. You've not invested tons in your gear and your reaping significant dividends.
I too slowly built my 2 channel rig. Now I have more than 219 invested, but there is a significant price disparity between my investment and what the gear costs in my system as well."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Great post! Welcome!“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
Hi-Fi
Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
That's the best first post and introduction of a new member I've ever read on here! A+
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. I got so wrapped up in the modern MP3 lifestyle that my ear for what the music is supposed to sound like slowly faded away.
This is what caught my attention. Good first post Alan, and welcome.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
First off, thank you all for taking the time to comment on my quest to put together a decent system while not simply throwing money at it. I actually found it quite fun to try and locate the best value while selecting from the available pieces. I spent a few hours over the last few days playing around with speaker placement and it really improved the overall enjoyment of the system. I was surprised to see while using the length of string method just how far off the total distance from each speaker to my ears was. I then played around with toe in and wall distance. Proper measurements have created a very convincing sound stage. It still floors me to be able to close my eyes and pick out the locations regarding where people are standing on the stage.
I really didn't know what to expect from the Polk RT600's but I must say, they continue to impress me. I found some old literature on the RT's and was surprised to see they had a frequency response of 30hz-26khz. Now I know it's not heavily reinforced down that low but nonetheless the notes are there. Obviously in the further quest to have truly full range 20-20000 sound I need a subwoofer.
F1nut; I didn't know that the Polk subs were geared for either HT or music. If I remember correctly from a while back the only real difference was ported or non ported. And that ported subs usually go a little lower but had a much narrower usable range because the ports are tuned to specific frequencies. I did notice that the Micro Pro's seemed to have a flat response that went a bit lower than the others. But my god, the price is really high for those extra octaves. Besides, it kind of goes against the spirit of my system to spend that much. So I guess my question to you then is what do the micro's do that is so much better for music and that would warrant the huge increase in cost? Keep in mind I don't have a need for jet plane volume. Most of the time the volume is set just high enough that I have to talk a little louder than usual to carry on a conversation.
Anyway, I am currently researching a few different subs that may find their way into my living room. Unfortunately, most budget used subs that I have come across are nearing the end of their usable life span. They really seem to take a beating as compared to floor standing speakers. I may end up patiently waiting for a really good deal, pick it up and then demo it for a while knowing that I can resell it quickly for what I paid for it. Hence the reason I most likely won't buy an $800 subwoofer unless it becomes necessary. I don't think it will be to difficult to find a sub that will play cleanly from 20hz to 100hz at low to moderate volume levels. I'll post some trials as they happen for whoever is interested. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and get a winner the first time around. Alan. -
I don't think it will be to difficult to find a sub that will play cleanly from 20hz to 100hz at low to moderate volume levels. I'll post some trials as they happen for whoever is interested. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and get a winner the first time around. Alan.
It very well may be difficult to find a sub that plays cleanly down to 20 hz.....for what you want to pay anyway. Keep in mind your in room response will be different than a spec sheet will say....that goes for subs or speakers. Certainly there are bargains and bang for your buck products, but audio.....good audio, has a price tag.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Great first post Alan_r...Welcome many great guys here to teach about the finer things in audio..
Maybe try to find a used DSW or Micropro series...ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
Hey J,
Clean out the box bro.....and by that I'm not referring to doing any manscaping.
Wanted to check in with you on how that pre is hanging with the amp.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Welcome to the club. There are a lot of choices for subs, so I wouldn't restrict yourself to Polk subs. There have been many musical subs through the years, often from names that you may not recognize. SVS, HSU, REL, and Rythmic to name a few. Problem is, many people do not get rid of a good sub. Once they have it, they keep it for YEARS!
I've had the same SVS sub since somewhere around 2005 or 2006. No plans to get rid of it. Just keep your eyes open. Deals pop up.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Welcome and have fun.
Just a suggestion to get an old FM tuner from the 70s or 80s with a set of rabbit ears. NPR stations play much excellent classical music and it's all free. Of course this depends on the city you live in.
The most important thing is a good cheap music source.
Music is the best.
