Component Warm-up

zingo
zingo Posts: 11,258
edited October 2013 in Electronics
I realized that I have never given component warm-up its proper due. I was planning on doing quite a bit of listening this weekend, so I turned my Dodd components on yesterday evening, and left them over night. This morning I went down stairs and turned on some music, and WOW! The sound was more rich and textured, and a better feeling of fullness, weight, and sound stage. I always turned on my electronics before I listened to them for a few minutes, but leaving them on for 12 hours is a whole new world, and really makes the most out of the recent mods to my speakers!

This is just a good reminder, as it was a topic that had slipped my mind, and a great way to get a little extra performance out of your system.
Jake
Post edited by zingo on
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited October 2013
    I've noticed that, too. So my amp doesn't get turned off all weekend and my pre stays in standby mode until about an hour prior to the music starting . . .
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited October 2013
    You are talking about tube amps I gather as 30 min warmup for solid state should be plenty
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
    Tube preamp and SS amp, and 12 hours of warm-up does sound better than 30 minutes on my equipment.
    Jake
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  • soundfreak1
    soundfreak1 Posts: 3,414
    edited October 2013
    My parasound wanted 30 min as well the krell likes a little more but it worth it.
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited October 2013
    My experience as well be it tube or SS.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2013
    I accidentally discovered the same thing in both my two-channel and HT systems. It takes my two-channel about 2 hours to warm-up, and sounds it best after 24 hours. However, I can't afford the electricity to keep it turned on all the time. My "luxury" treat is I turn it on Friday morning before leaving for work, and it stays on until bedtime Sunday night. This lets me have maximum audio quality all weekend. The same thing applies to my HT. I was impressed the first time I watched it Saturday night after it was accidentally left on Friday night.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited October 2013
    Me, too . . .
    Toobed Cary pre and switching between Adcom 5802 and Pass Aleph 30 . . . completely warmed-up is the way to go!
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited October 2013
    I also found on my Dodd preamp that completely warmed up is the way to go
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited October 2013
    I typically wait 10-20 minutes for the SS gear. Yes, there is a difference from when I would first turn it on to the 10+ minute warm-up. I definitely want to test longer start-up times now. Thanks for the thread.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2013
    GlennDog wrote: »
    Me, too . . .
    Toobed Cary pre and switching between Adcom 5802 and Pass Aleph 30 . . . completely warmed-up is the way to go!

    Agreed on the Pass Aleph 30. It takes AT LEAST 45 minutes to even start sounding good, but the longer you leave it on the better it sounds.

    The same is true for my BAT VK-200. It takes at least 45 minutes to start sounding good, but if you leave it on for 5-6 hours starts sounding really good. The longer you leave it on, the better it sounds.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited October 2013
    I turn on my Odyssey Candela tube pre several hours before serious listening; my heavily modded Stratos Stereo stays on 24/7. If I turn off the Stratos due to a trip out of town, it takes around a day for it to perform at the same level as leaving it on.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
    Here is what Hafler says on the issue in their current manuals:

    WARM UP
    In order to achieve the best sonic performance from the amplifier, we recommend letting it warm up for 1 hour before beginning any critical listening. The amplifier will not deliver its full potential sound quality before this time has passe    d.
    Jake
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited October 2013
    The finer details become more apparent, the bass and mid-bass tightens, imaging gets sharper and more precise in its spatial locational cues and the entire sound stage becomes more focused. It's just an overall better sound. Clearer, more defined, fluid, cohesive.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2013
    In my experience, (especially with the Aragon 8008bb) the high end is pretty damn harsh until the amp(s) warm up. As Tom said, detail improves as well as imaging and soundstage. It makes a big difference with some amps and some not as much. I will say that all amps get "better" when warmed up however.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited October 2013
    This has me extremely curious. What exactly (to your knowledge) is "warming up" when you leave the amp/pre-amp on and idle? Would the crossovers in speakers then experience the same warmup period thus making them sound better after a period of playing (separate, of course, from the initial break in period)?
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited October 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    An ignorant guess would be letting all the caps fully charge?

    I would concur as the warm up time would be dictated on how long the unit has been sitting.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2013
    That is a good question about cross-overs in speakers warming up. My pre-amp does not have an on/off switch, and my amps consume as much power at idle, as they do playing (except at high levels). I doubt if that affects the speakers since, obviously, there is no sound produced at idle.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited October 2013
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I doubt if that affects the speakers since, obviously, there is no sound produced at idle.

    Well, duh! I meant a playing warmup time. If charging the caps is the theory we're going with, does this also affect the caps within the speakers once you've started feeding sound to them? My knowledge in the area is really limited so I may be asking a completely silly question here but it peaked my interest for sure.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2013
    Like I said, that is a good question about speaker cross-over warm-up time. If it does occur it probably only takes a few minutes since there are only a few passive devices to warm up.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited October 2013
    It's not just about caps. Amplifying devices, whether they be tubes or transistors, have transconductance curves. That is an input voltage results in an output. Power supplies are not always stable upon power up. Gotta get the stuff up to temp where it outputs as designed. Ever bias a tube amp, note how it changes from first power up to when it gets warm and stable. Happens with transistors too. Anyway, warm up and stable is good, how much depends.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited October 2013
    From Nelson Pass-
    It's a fact; devices such as Mosfets reach higher transconductance figures at higher
    temperatures, so it's not just a matter of getting the bias to
    stabilize. Also, the higher the bias for Mosfets, the more temperature stable.
    Jake
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited October 2013
    It depends on A or AB. AB doesn't cook the trannys like A does. Do they bias from transistors or from heat sinks. Newer transistors have internal temp sensors.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
    edited October 2013
    You are referring to Xc and phase?
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited October 2013
    treitz3 wrote: »
    The finer details become more apparent, the bass and mid-bass tightens, imaging gets sharper and more precise in its spatial locational cues and the entire sound stage becomes more focused. It's just an overall better sound. Clearer, more defined, fluid, cohesive.Tom

    ^ ^ ^ ^ This.

    Everything just opens up. In my case it's not that the system is unlistenable when the amp has been off and is just powered up, but it sounds so much better with the amp always on. This is recommended by Odyssey (the on off switch is on the back panel).

    I turn off the linestage only because I don't want to drastically shorten tube life.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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