Hi-rez news from Sony

F1nut

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/personal/2013/09/04/sony-new-high-resolution-audio-products/2762773/

Too bad they couldn't be bothered to support SACD like they said they would.

F1nut

And right on the heals of that comes this, http://www.audiostream.com/content/acoustic-sounds-announces-deal-sony-music

I love this comment,

Next thing you know, Sony Music will start putting all these DSD reissues on a physical disc, perhaps a dual layer format that would have a CD layer that you could rip and play anywhere; and then have a high resolution layer that would play in high-res players and computers connected to DSD DAC's. And they could charge less than what these ridiculous downloads will cost and you would have a fundamentally permanent copy with an improved version of a jewel case and liner notes. Nah, that'll never work.

FU Sony

Nightfall

According to the article the two players priced at $2k and $1k are the same aside from 500Gb of HDD space? That's insane!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178338

Here's a 4 TB, or 4096 Gb, HDD for under $200...

BlueFox

Well, it isn't SACD, but who needs copy protection? Of course, knowing Sony they will probably try to have some type of copy protectin on their DSD files if they think they can get away with it. At least they are offering music servers and DSD DACs. However, their music servers had best be able to play all file formats, and not just DSD. Now I have to take this news to another forum and start pressuring Bryston to offer a DSD upgrade to their BDA2 DAC.

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

And right on the heals of that comes this, http://www.audiostream.com/content/acoustic-sounds-announces-deal-sony-music

I love this comment,



FU Sony

Yeah, FU is right Jesse. Rediculous. If Sony is bothering to do DSD at all, do it in a physical format AND downloadable (since some want that, although I do not). Just put these remastered DSD albums on SACD please. It seems (with MFSL and AF putting out many titles on hybrid SACD) that SACD is easily popular enough to warrent Sony putting titles out on SACD.

That comment you qouted is sarcastically correct Jesse.

Tornado Red

Yeah, thanks for the SACD support Sony. You have the attention span of Doug the Dog from Up.

nwohlford

Nightfall wrote: »

According to the article the two players priced at $2k and $1k are the same aside from 500Gb of HDD space? That's insane!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178338

Here's a 4 TB, or 4096 Gb, HDD for under $200...

They are actually fairly different devices if look at Sony's website. $1k is a two channel receiver with built-in streamer and dac and the $2k one is more of a "high end" music streamer with balanced outs.

Moose68Bash

F1nut wrote: »

And right on the heals of that comes this, http://www.audiostream.com/content/acoustic-sounds-announces-deal-sony-music

I love this comment,



FU Sony

Jesse,

Let me come to Sony's defense. If you don't want to listen to a carefully reasoned, indubitably sound argument on Sony's behalf, just don't bother to read the following post.





Well, maybe not.

Phil

cnh

Sony is, obviously, using this to corner a market that they themselves are creating or helping to fashion. I, also, prefer, some hard copy support. But since the generation underneath us is ALL ABOUT THE DOWNLOAD, one can understand why the DOWNLOAD would dominate one's attention here.

So Sony downloads, Sony Players, Sony Hi-Res speakers (what might that be?), and Sony Hi-Res H-phones. Excuse me, but doesn't Sony already make a number of H-phones in the $300+ range? Re-branding anyone?

cnh

steveinaz

Hey, here's a novel idea; how about we have standards in the audio engineering/mixing field and perfect Redbook---before we go after solutions in search of a problem.

Danny Tse

headrott wrote: »

If Sony is bothering to do DSD at all, do it in a physical format AND downloadable (since some want that, although I do not). Just put these remastered DSD albums on SACD please. It seems (with MFSL and AF putting out many titles on hybrid SACD) that SACD is easily popular enough to warrent Sony putting titles out on SACD.

Sony is still involved in releasing SACD....but as a licensee of music to Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity. Recent Audio Fidelity/Sony titles include those from Elvis and Bob Dylan. With Mobile Fidelity, Sony has licensed Billy Joel, Miles Davis, SRV, etc. Upcoming MoFi/Sony SACD titles include Hall & Oates, Barry Manilow, more Dylan and Miles Davis, etc. Don't forget Analogue Productions is reissuing Sony's Living Stereo classical SACDs.

pitdogg2

Danny Tse wrote: »

Sony is still involved in releasing SACD....but as a licensee of music to Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity. Recent Audio Fidelity/Sony titles include those from Elvis and Bob Dylan. With Mobile Fidelity, Sony has licensed Billy Joel, Miles Davis, SRV, etc. Upcoming MoFi/Sony SACD titles include Hall & Oates, Barry Manilow, more Dylan and Miles Davis, etc. Don't forget Analogue Productions is reissuing Sony's Living Stereo classical SACDs.

wonder how much that adds to our cost of product? Come on Sony just make SACD's you have the largest catalog.

headrott

Danny Tse wrote: »

Sony is still involved in releasing SACD....but as a licensee of music to Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity. Recent Audio Fidelity/Sony titles include those from Elvis and Bob Dylan. With Mobile Fidelity, Sony has licensed Billy Joel, Miles Davis, SRV, etc. Upcoming MoFi/Sony SACD titles include Hall & Oates, Barry Manilow, more Dylan and Miles Davis, etc. Don't forget Analogue Productions is reissuing Sony's Living Stereo classical SACDs.

That makes sense Danny, and I figured as much. Why not go "full boar" and actally release their titles AND lisence them to Mobile Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity? I do (of course) appreciate they are liscncing the title they are to Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity. I (any many others including yourself and Jesse, Mike) would buy them. Right now, they are only going "half a$$" which is semi-good, but not fully good (know what I mean)?

headrott

pitdogg2 wrote: »

wonder how much that adds to our cost of product? Come on Sony just make SACD's you have the largest catalog.

Yep.

BlueFox

headrott wrote: »

I (any many others including yourself and Jesse, Mike) would buy them.

Oh yes. That is a mighty big market for Sony. :biggrin:

Many of you guys are missing the point. SACDs are like vinyl, a very small niche market. As such, there is little reason for a big company to address it. Along the same line, physical media is slowly dying, with some vendors already stopping production of CD players, and other vendors following in the years to come.

In a way it is ironic since Sony killed the SACD market from the start by insisting on copy protection, yet now they will be offering DSD files without the copy protection. I hope.

Rather than being negagtive, try looking at the positive. At least now we are getting music at a higher fidelity than before, and that is the name of the game.

Danny Tse

BlueFox wrote: »

SACDs are like vinyl, a very small niche market. As such, there is little reason for a big company to address it. Along the same line, physical media is slowly dying, with some vendors already stopping production of CD players, and other vendors following in the years to come.

Rather than being negagtive, try looking at the positive. At least now we are getting music at a higher fidelity than before, and that is the name of the game.

It's true that SACD is a niche format, and in this case, Sony doesn't want to take all of the the financial risks involved. Enter companies like Audio Fidelity and MoFi. However, despite all of the obstacles, SACD is still here....and dare I say, actually growing. Remember the "format war" with DVD-A? During that time, I wouldn't have imagine that artists on the Warner Music, such as Frank Sinatra, Nat "King" Cole and Chicago, showing up on SACD. On the other hand, for a company that has the catalog of Springsteen and Simon & Garfunkel, Sony can certainly push SACD further along.

headrott

BlueFox wrote: »

Oh yes. That is a mighty big market for Sony. :biggrin:

OK, I know (think???) you were joking, but you and I know there are many people on this and many other forums that would (and do) buy SACD's.

BlueFox wrote: »

Many of you guys are missing the point. SACDs are like vinyl, a very small niche market. As such, there is little reason for a big company to address it. Along the same line, physical media is slowly dying, with some vendors already stopping production of CD players, and other vendors following in the years to come.

In a way it is ironic since Sony killed the SACD market from the start by insisting on copy protection, yet now they will be offering DSD files without the copy protection. I hope.

Rather than being negagtive, try looking at the positive. At least now we are getting music at a higher fidelity than before, and that is the name of the game.

Hi-Rez itself is a niche market, I would argue. I would venture to say that a majority of those that venture into the Hi-Rez format would like to have a disc over a download. How big of a majority I don't know? But I believe it's a majority. Obviously Sony didn't kill the SACD market as it's growing bigger and bigger (in my view) and as Danny said. Be it from Audio Fidelity, Mobile Fidelity, SHM-SACD, etc., etc. SACD releases are putting the DVD-Audio/Blu-Ray audio to shame in releases, sales, and even quality (DSD is the highest resolution available in the digital format).

That is the positive I see from this. More and more titles are being released on SACD. There was just released a SACD box by YES costing $500+. Obviously there is a market for SACD's if suppliers are willing to venture a SACD box costing this much.

Moose68Bash

Twenty years or so ago, when I was working for one of the largest software companies in the world, we had a slogan to describe succinctly where we thought the world of value creation was going. We believed that manufacturing of traditional products that people could touch and feel was going to play a rapidly decreasing role in the economy of the 21st century as the roles of services, entertainment, and intangible things -- that is, things with "no matter" or material -- rapidly increased. Software would inevitably be more important in the economy than hardware.

The slogan was: "Anytime, any place, no matter."

This "sea change" in value creation has come about far more rapidly than I expected at the time, and it continues apace. Due largely to the internet and the growth of wireless services we can now get any information we want anytime, anywhere, and information has no matter -- no material existence when it is stored digitally. Even material things are getting smaller and smaller as miniaturization proceeds at a rapid pace. This is part of the ineffable progression toward less and less, and finally, "no matter."

The shift to less and less and finally to "no matter" as the dominant storage vehicle for music is just one more instance of this fundamental transformation of our civilized world. Even devices that must have matter -- material existence -- are getting smaller and smaller. For example: As the areal density of hard drives increases and the capacity of solid state memory devices increases, mass storage becomes cheaper and cheaper, and CDs and DVDs -- which have very little matter, but they do have some -- are inevitably becoming obsolete, especially as the quality of downloadable files approaches and exceeds that of CDs, DVDs, and SACDs.

As the bandwidth of the internet increases along with the clock speeds of microprocessors, practical limits on the size of files that can be downloaded to mass storage devices (of increasing capacity and decreasing size and cost) will disappear.

While some of us will hold out for vinyl (not me) and CDs and SACDs, just as some of us still read real books, the economy and the world will move on to the faster, better cheaper means of delivering products that are wanted by customers.

Blame it on Moore's Law.

C'est la vie!

drumminman

I don't argue with the validity of the point you're making,Phil, but I don't like it. I realize I'm a bit 20th century here, but I like to have a physical representation of something I've bought, be it a book, music, etc.

Last summer I constructed a wall of built in shelving in part to house some of my AC filtering equipment, but mostly to store my CD's and LP's, and have room for (many) future purchases. I like to look at shelves full of this stuff. I also like the simplicity of buying a CD, putting it in the CDP, hitting play and having glorious music fill the room. Elegantly simple. No servers or laptops to worry about crashing.

I know I'm probably in a dwindling minority and all this makes me a F-O-G, but there it is.

Now, who can recommend a great SACD player (from hands on experience) for around $1K, besides the OPPO 105?

nspindel

drumminman wrote: »

I don't argue with the validity of the point you're making,Phil, but I don't like it. I realize I'm a bit 20th century here, but I like to have a physical representation of something I've bought, be it a book, music, etc.

Last summer I constructed a wall of built in shelving in part to house some of my AC filtering equipment, but mostly to store my CD's and LP's, and have room for (many) future purchases. I like to look at shelves full of this stuff. I also like the simplicity of buying a CD, putting it in the CDP, hitting play and having glorious music fill the room. Elegantly simple. No servers or laptops to worry about crashing.

I know I'm probably in a dwindling minority and all this makes me a F-O-G, but there it is.

Now, who can recommend a great SACD player (from hands on experience) for around $1K, besides the OPPO 105?

I can recommend one - check out the Marantz SA8004.

HHStuart

Another factor here is price. I buy very few e Books because of the price. They want the same price as a new paper back. I can get used books for much less at used book stores (they are still out there) or church or yard sales. When I get done with the book I have something I can sell, trade, or give away. Not so with electronic books. And there are libraries which are free (they also have quite a few electronic books).
Most SACD's are also overpriced. I would be willing to buy one I really liked for up to $20 but $30 is just too much except for rare exceptions. I wouldn't pay more than $5 for a downloadable one - too high a premium for just electrons. I already have around 300 SACD's, most of which I got at reasonable prices. I wouldn't buy the $30 ones unless they were best of compilations or ones I just had to have.

drumminman

nspindel wrote: »

I can recommend one - check out the Marantz SA8004.

Been looking at that vs. the Oppo 105. What's your experience?

BTW starting a new thread so as not to derail this one.

Moose68Bash

HHStuart wrote: »

Another factor here is price. I buy very few e Books because of the price. They want the same price as a new paper back. I can get used books for much less at used book stores (they are still out there) or church or yard sales. When I get done with the book I have something I can sell, trade, or give away. Not so with electronic books. And there are libraries which are free (they also have quite a few electronic books).
Most SACD's are also overpriced. I would be willing to buy one I really liked for up to $20 but $30 is just too much except for rare exceptions. I wouldn't pay more than $5 for a downloadable one - too high a premium for just electrons. I already have around 300 SACD's, most of which I got at reasonable prices. I wouldn't buy the $30 ones unless they were best of compilations or ones I just had to have.

Think about your point: You are not buying a piece of plastic; you are buying the music for which that piece of plastic (a CD/SACD) is only the delivery mechanism. You download music over wires (if you don't do it wirelessly), but you don't consider the wires what you are buying.

Yes, we're in a brave new world, and we aren't going to be able to turn it back. I, for one, believe that as time goes by the costs of the new "media" will also go down. Right now we're amortizing the research, development and initial marketing cost of these new products. As competition increase and time goes by, the prices will inevitably come down and, I believe, will be equal to or lower than the "hard copy" versions of the same music. Just think about the cost of sending a letter -- email v. snail mail. Think about the cost of flat screen TVs now v. 10 years ago. Think about the cost of preparing a "fancy" formal presentation 20 years ago v. a PowerPoint presentation today with whatever graphics you can imagine.

The limit on the declination of costs of music, however, is largely based on the payment to the artists, engineers, recording studio, etc. If they don't make enough money in the business, recorded music will disappear.

Just my humble opinion.

BlueFox

drumminman wrote: »

Now, who can recommend a great SACD player (from hands on experience) for around $1K, besides the OPPO 105?

From ears on experience, a used Sony XA-5400ES.