What would you do?

snow

I sold a stylus back on July 17th it was sold as being NOS and came with a 14 day money back no questions asked warranty on Ebay. This evening the I get an email stating the item is not as described and the fellow wants his money back, it has been almost 45 days since this item was sold, what would you do? Refund his money? give him a partial refund? tell him to bugger off? or what?


I of course want to be fair but I also don't want to get in the habit of offering unlimited warrantys on items new or used.



REGARDS SNOW

F1nut

It is 45 days, he's up the creek without a paddle.

snow

F1nut wrote: »

It is 45 days, he's up the creek without a paddle.

Hi Jesse. It has not been quite 45 days yet because he did not receive it until the 25th of July so 37 days I suppose.

My dilemma lays in whether I should refund his money or not based on what is right or wrong mainly more than anything else. I feel as a seller I bear a responsibility to the buyer to deliver what the buyer paid for but I also feel that as a buyer they bear a responsibility to ask for a refund in a timely manner too.

This is more about about principle than anything else, the amount is not much $23.00 and change with shipping costs so refunding this will not be an issue in that regard, I also do not want to be taken advantage of either. He stated in his note that it didnt sound good to him when he first got it, ok fine then why not return it within 14 days?

On the other hand if I do not refund his money I will likely receive my first negative back ever.



REGARDS SNOW

F1nut

In that case Dan, probably the best thing to do is refund his money and chalk it up to him being a putz.

snow

F1nut wrote: »

In that case Dan, probably the best thing to do is refund his money and chalk it up to him being a putz.

Your probably right but you can only remain a virgin for so long and this may be the time to give it up :cheesygrin: and jut take the neg based on principle.


REGARDS SNOW

teekay0007

I'd tell PFB to stop bidding on my chit!! :razz:

headrott

If the buyer doesn't think it "sounded good" after he first got it, he should have asked for his money back right then (as you stated)..... Not "sounding good" is not a form of "not being as advertised" unless there is a physical problem with the stylus causing it to not "sound good". Did the buyer also state that the condition of the item was not as stated?

If the item truely was as you stated and sounded good when you sent it to him, I believe he waited too long to ask for his money back. You offered a 14 day money back guarantee and he passed that time. Too bad for him. (Unless of course, the item is truely not as described (which obviously I am doubting). It's not your resposibility to sell him a stylus he believes is "sounding good" (unless, again the stylus is pysically damaged making it not "sound good"). That's my opinion.

The only thing you are resposible for in selling the stylus is making sure it gets to the buyer in the condition you advertised it. If it did, and the buyer did not ask for a refund in that 14 day period, he's out of luck. (Again IMO).

Nightfall

For what it's worth if I were buying something from Ebay and the seller had a bunch of good feedback and a single negative, it would not deter me from buying from them even for a second. This is assuming you even get a negative feedback. Can't you dispute it? If so, surely you would win as they are asking for a refund well after the 14 days.

snow

headrott wrote: »

If the buyer doesn't think it "sounded good" after he first got it, he should have asked for his money back right then (as you stated)..... Not "sounding good" is not a form of "not being as advertised" unless there is a physical problem with the stylus causing it to not "sound good". Did the buyer also state that the condition of the item was not as stated?

If the item truely was as you stated and sounded good when you sent it to him, I believe he waited too long to ask for his money back. You offered a 14 day money back guarantee and he passed that time. Too bad for him. (Unless of course, the item is truely not as described (which obviously I am doubting). It's not your resposibility to sell him a stylus he believes is "sounding good" (unless, again the stylus is pysically damaged making it not "sound good"). That's my opinion.

The only thing you are resposible for in selling the stylus is making sure it gets to the buyer in the condition you advertised it. If it did, and the buyer did not ask for a refund in that 14 day period, he's out of luck. (Again IMO).

This was his note to me.

Sorry to be so late communicating about this stylus. It didn't sound great when I got it, but until now I didn't know why. Just got a microscope and the stylus is loaded with excess glue. It is hard to even see if the diamond is shaped properly. It looks more like a weird shaped chip, nothing like a shibata shape. Bruce"

Now he could well be telling the truth but of course I have no way of knowing whether he is or not, he could be wanting to return a old wore out stylus that he has or it could be that he simply wanted something to listen too for 30 + days for free or he sold the TT it was used on and wants his money back for the stylus also.

My point is I offered a a full 2 weeks to return this with no questions asked period he failed to do so or respond in any manner now 37 days later he magically locates a microscope and discovers the problem?

I have refunded buyers money back before because they responded within the 14 day period even on used items, one fellow bought a cart from me a while back, he claimed it had a nasty electronic buzzing sound when used and that he tried it on mulitple tables, ok I truly suspected it was a case of I tried it and did not like the sound of it most likely but I refunded his money because that was the agreement in the auction. When it arrived back I tried it out on several tables myself at home quiet as could be I guess for me I want people to be responsible the same as I am and unless you are on vacation for 30 days or in the service on a mission etc 37 days is to long to expect a refund.



REGARDS SNOW

headrott

snow wrote: »

This was his note to me.

Now he could well be telling the truth but of course I have no way of knowing whether he is or not, he could be wanting to return a old wore out stylus that he has or it could be that he simply wanted something to listen too for 30 + days for free or he sold the TT it was used on and wants his money back for the stylus also.

My point is I offered a a full 2 weeks to return this with no questions asked period he failed to do so or respond in any manner now 37 days later he magically locates a microscope and discovers the problem?

I have refunded buyers money back before because they responded within the 14 day period even on used items, one fellow bought a cart from me a while back, he claimed it had a nasty electronic buzzing sound when used and that he tried it on mulitple tables, ok I truly suspected it was a case of I tried it and did not like the sound of it most likely but I refunded his money because that was the agreement in the auction. When it arrived back I tried it out on several tables myself at home quiet as could be I guess for me I want people to be responsible the same as I am and unless you are on vacation for 30 days or in the service on a mission etc 37 days is to long to expect a refund.



REGARDS SNOW

Yeah, regardless of whether he knew the reason or not, if it didn't sound good to him he should have returned it within 14 days. After that, he's SOL. You gave him 14 days. Then why did he wait to get a microscope, study the stylus and then e-mail you with the complaint. Not sounding right to me........

I do not know the rules on e-bay. Can you protest the negative feedback (if you receive one) since the buyer tried to get a refund well over double the time you offered the money back refund? Even if you can't protest it, I still wouldn't offer a money back refund (IMO). I agree 37 days is too long to ask for a refund.

Jhayman

Like Jesse said, if you are worried about the Negative feedback then refund him, maybe he did not get a chance to listen to it right away either, I know you gave 14 days but sometimes things happen..
maybe he had good intentions to listen right away but things came up no time, whatever it is was, for $23 I would just do it..
what does NOS mean btw?

snow

Jhayman wrote: »

Like Jesse said, if you are worried about the Negative feedback then refund him, maybe he did not get a chance to listen to it right away either, I know you gave 14 days but sometimes things happen..
maybe he had good intentions to listen right away but things came up no time, whatever it is was, for $23 I would just do it..
what does NOS mean btw?

I am not overly concerned about a negative feedback especially if it is for the right reasons. He never said when he first got a chance to listen to it but from his wording I assume it was right away not weeks later.

NOS means new old stock an item that is out of production but is a new item still in it's original packaging.

As far as to having the negative feedback removed if I get one, it is possible yes and Ebay may decide in my favor simply because I offered a warranty and he failed to respond within the allowed time period, I really don't know what they will do. To be honest the whole 45 day thing to return an item is ridiculous IMHO unless there is some sort of extenuating circumstances.

For me it has little to do with money or even the possibility of getting a negative feedback it has more to do with doing right by the buyer and them doing right by me the principle of the thing is important to me I suppose.



REGARDS SNOW

oldmodman

It's such a small amount of money I would just tell him to ship it back.

After you inspect it you refund his money. You keep your good E-bay reputation, he gets his money back, and you can carefully remove the excess glue and sell it again.

snow

oldmodman wrote: »

It's such a small amount of money I would just tell him to ship it back.

After you inspect it you refund his money. You keep your good E-bay reputation, he gets his money back, and you can carefully remove the excess glue and sell it again.

Perhaps your right but it is the principle of the thing that bothers me.The money is not the issue to me, whether it was 10 cents or 100 thousand dollars. it is the point he failed to return it within a timely manner that bothers me, both the buyer and seller need to play by the rules whatever they may be. When he bid on this item I agreed to refund his money no questions asked for a full two weeks if he had done so I would have refunded his money without a word. Now though since the time has more than doubled he still wants to return it I have a problem with that because that was not our agreement.

In essence the terms of the sale was a contract that we both agreed to and we both need to abide by that agreement, he now wants to void this agreement and make up his own set of rules if I had agreed to a 45 day money back warranty then it would be different and I would honor it, their lies the problem I have with this.


REGARDS SNOW

headrott

I think you and I are on the same page with this one SNOW. The buyer was 23 days too late to ask for a refund, period. Why didn't he ask for a refund the day it didn't sound good to him, instead of waiting until after he looked at the stylus through a microscope and then waited who knows how long? That is a reasonable question.

snow

I suppose I will have to think about this more before I decide what to do, I want to to do the right thing whatever it may be but it needs to be based on what that is, not based on what is convenient for me or whether it will cost me money or a negative feedback or both.


Thanks for all the input everyone it is appreciated.


REGARDS SNOW

headrott

snow wrote: »

I suppose I will have to think about this more before I decide what to do, I want to to do the right thing whatever it may be but it needs to be based on what that is, not based on what is convenient for me or whether it will cost me money or a negative feedback or both.


Thanks for all the input everyone it is appreciated.


REGARDS SNOW

That is good advice to yourself.

George Grand

If you mess around in a minefield long enough...

txcoastal1

First of all getting a 14 day return policy is a bargain.
Second the guy is a shmuck for asking for $23, (dude take it as a loss not big funds your losing)
Third, unfortunately refund the duma$$, $23 it isn't worth the bad mark especially if you are a frequent seller.

boston1450

With all the cost involved with shipping & other cost that you pay out as a seller-its crazy. I wouldnt feel bad sending him NOTHING.. Sounds to me he may have tried a item at your expense. Thats a cheap lesson for him & he should move on. Waited to long. TUFF....... Should you feel bad. No. You held up your end. People want everything for nothing nowwa days......i have bought a few items off sellers with negative feedback & had great results. You can look at sellers responses back on negative feedback. Usually it is because the buyer didnt comply with the TERMS ..... GOOD LUCK

CoolJazz

At one time I think that you could only post feedback for 30 days after an auction closed. Not sure if that's still the case but if so, he might not even be able to leave you negative fb at this point. You might look at the rules and see if you can tell. Not that you don't still have to decide what's fair with the buyer.

CJ

snow

Well I have thought about this and have came to the decision that all'though the prudent thing to do is simply return his money and not risk a negative feedback or a increase in fees as a seller because it can impact your seller rating is that it is not the right thing to do so I have sent him a message explaining why I have decided not to issue the refund.

I simply cannot allow myself to cave into unrealistic demands just because it would save me money or save me from a headache to do so would go against everything I believe in, sorry the customer is not always right. so we will just wait and see what comes of this.


REGARDS SNOW

boston1450

That is fair. Sellers can only bend so much with people who continue to do things like that. Good call IMO

Mikey081057

You didn't mention how much you sold the item for, but from a pure business transaction aspect, I would refund him and not sell to him again. Was the item really not as described? I don't know if it is worth getting the negative feedback on ebay. Then the worst he can say is that you bent over backwards to correct a problem which isn't really negative at all.In this case I would make the exception to keep your reputation intact. But you have to make that call

snow

Mikey081057 wrote: »

You didn't mention how much you sold the item for, but from a pure business transaction aspect, I would refund him and not sell to him again. Was the item really not as described? I don't know if it is worth getting the negative feedback on ebay. Then the worst he can say is that you bent over backwards to correct a problem which isn't really negative at all.In this case I would make the exception to keep your reputation intact. But you have to make that call

From a business standpoint it would be wise to simply refund his money and move on, a couple of mouse clicks and it's over. From a personal standpoint it is worth it to me to take the risk of the negative feedback and still having to pay him back too. I guess i'm just a stubborn **** who is not very smart.

REGARDS SNOW

boston1450

Mikey081057 wrote: »

You didn't mention how much you sold the item for, but from a pure business transaction aspect, I would refund him and not sell to him again. Was the item really not as described? I don't know if it is worth getting the negative feedback on ebay. Then the worst he can say is that you bent over backwards to correct a problem which isn't really negative at all.In this case I would make the exception to keep your reputation intact. But you have to make that call

23.00 & change. Then way beyond the 14 day----sounds fishy-- i want something better so ill return this & buy a better one-or he messed it up installing it. Who knows. But it doesnt sound right. All over 25.00

Jhayman

I see what you are saying but $23 fir a starter needle, that seems really cheap for someone to buy as a starter then want something better, if I was going to buy a starter needle it would be more than $23..
Oh well it's still up to the OP..for $23 I would not worry about it..

boston1450 wrote: »

23.00 & change. Then way beyond the 14 day----sounds fishy-- i want something better so ill return this & buy a better one-or he messed it up installing it. Who knows. But it doesnt sound right. All over 25.00

gudnoyez

Perhaps the stylus was not a good match for his cartridge, and he did not install it right away. He could of messed it up installing it. I would chalk it up as the guy being SOL, and not worry about the bad rating, but that's just me, a $23 dollar transaction is not a lot like Jesse says return the guys money and consider him a putz that is if your worried about the bad rating.

Btw I really enjoy that John Paul Jones CD I bought from you it is one of my favorites!

rpf65

I just finished a call that may be applicable here. Condemned a part that should be under warranty, but it being Saturday, and the parts house being closed, I have to wait to verify the warranty with the manufacturer.

Point being that it is up to the seller to determine if a product is under warranty. Your warranty had a specific time frame. You said you would have even allowed a few extra days for delivery, which is more than fair. If he waited a month to test the product, or get a hold of a microscope, that's his problem.

I wouldn't blame nor question your integrity for not refunding him anything. It is his responsibility to promptly notify you about a possible problem/defect

Moose68Bash

I'm not sure what I would do, but I would consider the following:

1) Return the item to the buyer with a clear statement that you are doing it as a matter of courtesy (or a matter of your "policy" to satisfy your customers) and that you do not believe you are required to do so under the terms of the sale.

2) Leave the buyer negative feedback on eBay and tell the absolute truth about your reasons for doing so. This will forewarn future sellers of the possibility that this seller is not trustworthy with respect to honoring the strict terms of transactions.

I think this gives you the ethical high ground on both sides of this issue: You show your willingness to go the extra mile as a seller and that you trust buyers, and you give your fellow sellers a "heads-up" about this buyer's potential unreliability and unpredictability-- or, in other words, that he is not absolutely trustworthy.

Our web-based sales activities, at the end of the day, are based on trust, which unfortunately is often misplaced. But when we discover a reason to mistrust a participant, it is important to expose the truth. It is equally important to recognize that, as sellers, when we allow some elasticity in a strict return policy in order to sustain the system, it increases trust buyers have in this system. Trust is a function of the reliability and predictability of the individuals involved in an ethical dilemma.

If you do 1 and 2 above you increase buyers' trust in you because you demonstrate that you place satisfying the buyer above rigid adherence to arbitrary terms of a purchase agreement. (Manufacturers with explicit warranty terms might call this "policy" when they pay out a warranty claim even after the period of the warranty has expired. Some manufacturer set aside funds for "policy claims" under the liabilities on their balance sheets, just as they set aside funds for "warranty claims.")

We would like to have an environment in which all actions of buyers and sellers alike increase our trust in this "bits & bytes" system we use. When their is a breakdown of this trust, the question is what actions can we take to reinforce or restore that trust?

Just my humble opinion, but based on Kant's "Categorical Imperative": "Always act so that you can will the maxim of your action to be universal law."

heiney9

Let it go to EBAY arbitration. IIRC, he can't leave feedback until after EBAY rules. I had the same thing happen to me with a tube a long time ago. I was on your stylus's guys end as the buyer. The tube blew within the first couple hours of a perfectly functioning amp.

I simply opened a complaint with EBAY after trying to work something out with the seller. He was insanely unreasonable and fowl mouthed, etc. Ebay gathered each side of the story as well as the inappropriate and lewd emails he sent me and ruled in my favor. They also erased the negative feedback he left. This was about 6-7 years ago and the feedback system was different.

I guess what I'm saying is for $23 just give in to protect your seller rating or if you feel you have a strong case and things were spelled out very clearly in the auction, take it to EBAY and then abide by what they decide. Based on the facts you've presented I think you have a strong case, but EBAY has shifted to supporting the buyer more than ever, and my experience above is based on the old EBAY where buyer and seller were more or less equal.

Good luck

H9