Pre/Pro recommendations

Nightfall

This is a little out into the future but I want to know what I'm shooting for $ wise now. What I have in mind is posted below at a total cost of ~$1600 I am not brand loyal to anything (besides vintage Polks). My only stipulation is that it isn't something that is going to take a million years to save up for. I cook for $13/hour I want the amp to be 5 channel. I want the pre to have HDMI switching and digital connections.

Priorities - in order
1) Cost
2) Reliability
3) SQ
4) Power

Pre - Emotiva UMC-200

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200






Amp - Emotiva XPA-5

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-5

Nightfall

Thanks, I will look up Outlaw. Are the Marantz amps class D? I noticed this for sale for $1199 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MAMM7055 Less power than the Emotiva, weighs less than half, and more expensive. Is the SQ really there compared to the Emotiva, what gives?

WLDock

- Not class http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&ProductId=MM7055[/url]

- Weight in amps come from the transformer, the heatsink, and the chassis...the PCB's weight little in comparison. It looks like two TOTALLY different designs in regards to cooling. Emo has heatsinks for each channel....and Marantz uses a single cooling channel for all output devices.

Physically, the MM7055’s output stages mount on an extruded aluminum “thermal tunnel” for efficient heat dissipation. With temperature-sensing forced air cooling, this configuration assures cool operating temperatures for long-term reliability, even when making full use of the amplifier’s substantial output capabilities.

MM7055 Internal
http://audio.com.pl/pics/testy/max_marantz_av7055_08.jpg

XPA-5 internal
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0104/5532/products/xpa5_gen2_torodial_1024x1024.jpg?1069

- Marantz name and non-internet direct adds a premium

- This has been asked before: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?126727-Power-Amp-Emotiva-or-Marantz&highlight=MM7055

-In terms of SQ many like Marantz products in general or sound and many like Emotiva's performance per dollar. Many won't jump up and down for either product and will personally prefer other brands....but there are very few NEW choices for $1000! The improved XPA-5 Gen 2 is one of the better values around if the sound suits ones taste. Some don't like Emotiva...but I'm sure many have yet to hear the Gen 2. Looks like they use different output transistors:

The amplifier modules inside the X Series amplifiers have been modified using new high-current, gain matched output transistors. The new output transistors have been sourced from ON Semiconductor (formerly Motorola) and can be found in numerous high-end amplifiers apart from Emotiva. These new output transistors are charged with improving linearity throughout the frequency band as well as improving high frequency performance. The new transistors coupled with a whole new board layout and grounding scheme help the XPA-5 achieve a lower noise floor while increasing dynamic range. Lastly, the XPA-5, like all X Series Gen 2 amplifiers, features a newly redesigned Toroidal transformer that features higher grade silicon steel internally that helps cut down on mechanical noise.

Quoted from:
http://www.andrew-robinson-online.com/review-emotiva-xpa-5-gen-2-multi-channel-amplifier/

MM7055 review/measurement
http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-av7005-surround-processor-and-mm7055-amplifier-ht-labs-measures

MM7055 refurb - $799.99 http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARMM7055/Marantz-MM7055-5-Channel-Power-Amplifier/1.html

Sumerian

not trying to hijack the thread but these days AVR seems to have a lot of spec/options than a stand alone Pre/Pro
why not go with a AVR?

WLDock

I think the OP's RTA-12B's are 4 Ohm and has two Monitor 5's wires for 4 Ohms and is looking for a more 2 ch and Multi ch SQ than his/her current AVR based on this post: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?151805-Vintage-5.1-Setup-Complete
I guess the OP can confirm....

The later Elite SC's would be one of the choices that is rated to drive 4 Ohms. Like this used SC-65 for $800 on CL in the OP's area: http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4002100188.html

Nightfall

Yes I want

1) 4 Ohm compatibility
2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.
3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.

Polkie2009

Didn't Emotiva have a ton of firmware problems with their pre/pro units? I kinda wish Pioneer Elite made a standalone pre/pro, noticed Yamaha brought a model out this year that looks pretty sharp.

Nightfall

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Didn't Emotiva have a ton of firmware problems with their pre/pro units? I kinda wish Pioneer Elite made a standalone pre/pro, noticed Yamaha brought a model out this year that looks pretty sharp.

Yes. There are still unresolved issues with the UMC-200. The more I read about it, the more I'm doubting it's a good choice. The amp, however, seems like good value.

Syndil

I would look to see if the Outlaw Model 975 has enough functionality for you. Great company, great products. And if you can find a way to do without the HDMI, you open up a lot more options, like the Outlaw Audio 990 that I am using. Terrific unit. I let my TV handle the HDMI switching and use optical and coaxial digital outputs from my gear. The only drawback is with that type of setup, you don't get the highest quality codecs that only HDMI supports, such as Dolby TruHD or DTS HD Master Audio. My plan to work around that limitation is to eventually get an Oppo player that will output those codecs to analog outputs. The 990 has 7.1 analog inputs. I've not been in a hurry to implement that plan because lately I have been doing very little Blu-Ray watching.

Anyway, if you think you could be happy with a setup like that there are a LOT of pre/pros out there without HDMI support that are of very high quality. And you can find many of them on the used market (Audiogon/eBay) for not a lot of money.

zane77

I'm pretty happy with my Onkyo, it's in my HT rig but I would imagine it would handle double duty pretty well

tonyb

Sumerian wrote: »

not trying to hijack the thread but these days AVR seems to have a lot of spec/options than a stand alone Pre/Pro
why not go with a AVR?

Just the opposite, pre/pro's generally have a higher level of adjustability for the sound, and a better build quality to them usually resulting in better sound.

Nightfall

Highly considering Oppo BDP-105 in place of a pre. Buying a pre is a possibility afterwards if I run into the need. It has everything I need.

nooshinjohn

A Pioneer Elite SC 57 or 67 could be had well within the OP's budget and beat the Emo amp-Pre/Pro combo on all counts, as well as be far more reliable in terms of processing. Emo has yet to get a processor right IMHO.

nooshinjohn

Nightfall wrote: »

Yes I want

1) 4 Ohm compatibility
2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.
3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.

I have been in love with the power, ease of use and sound quality of my Pio Elite SC37 since I got it two years ago. $799 on clearance from Magnolia. You can find a newer model for 1200-1500 and not look back.

Emlyn

Pioneer Elite SC-71 is readily available for under $800. It's rated to run 4 ohm speakers with its own amps.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-71

Nightfall

Pioneer SC series or Oppo BDP-105? Argh!

WLDock

Head over to your local Best Buy Magnolia and check out the Pioneer. There are open box and close out deals at several stores. Use the iPhone or Android Best Buy app to find them. I bet if you searched for deals and used items you could get a Pioneer SC unit and the Oppo BDP-105 for $1600.

tonyb

Nightfall wrote: »

Yes I want

1) 4 Ohm compatibility
2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.

That's a sure sign to back off the volume dial. Just to be straight here, nothing you acquire will allow you to bury a volume dial. Not suggesting you are, but when you say "lean into" I take it as you like it loud.

That said, and given the rest of your gear, I would say the Pioneer SC series of receivers are right up your alley.

Nightfall

When using just the vintage CA-1010 by itself, it sounds great at about 11 o'clock position. If I add the RX-V667 into the mix, use the preouts to the CA-1010, even though the CA is still powering the speakers in question if I get anywhere near the same volume that used to be the 11 o'clock position it sounds as described. Even with "pure direct" switched on. I'd say once you get to -20db is where the brightness starts coming in and the closer to 0db (or the original 11 o'clock SPL) you go the worse it gets.

tonyb

What your hearing is the difference between a very good vintage piece in the CA-1010, and an entry level receiver. Buy one receiver that will sound good and give you the connectivity you need. I believe a few were already mentioned. Would be hard for anyone not to be happy with a Pioneer SC series receiver and an Oppo bdp. 2 of the most sought after pieces in the general consumer market and for good reason.

Nightfall

I appreciate all the advice everyone. Do big box stores let you return AVR's for any reason within a few days?

nooshinjohn

You won't be returning an SC...

Nightfall

...and the money saving begins.

WLDock

Here is an example, The BB Denver West location has an excellent condition open box Elite SC-63 for $688.99. Also, there is an Elite SC-05 on the Denver CL for $400. The Oppo 103's are on eBay for $500-$600. For $1000-$1200 you can take it to the next level!