Phono Preamps???

mrbiron
mrbiron Posts: 5,711
edited August 2013 in Electronics
Looking to try a phono preamp. Something in the sub $300 market.
I've been looking at the Bellari 530 or the Parasaound Zphono (new or used on either). I chose a tube and nontube for the sake of comparison. Just looking to see if anyone has had any experience with these or something else in this price range. This is my first step to better vinyl. Next i'm looking at getting away from the cheap turntable and into something a little better so by having the pre ahead of time, it will make the transition a little easier.

I chose these as i would also like to try the USB recording. Is this a waste of time? My problem is i have no digital files since all 400 of my CD's were stolen about 10years ago and i just don't plan on rebuying.

Help Please!
Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
Post edited by mrbiron on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,806
    edited August 2013
    Doesn't Jim Hagerman have a phono preamp/DAC bundled as one of his 'semi-kits'?
    That would be a good way to go, methinks. www.hagtech.com
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bthogan
    bthogan Posts: 151
    edited August 2013
    Used Adcom GFP-565? Those are still pretty well-regarded for their phono input, aren't they? Usually available somewhere for ~$300.
    Marantz CD6004
    Adcom GFP-750
    McCormack DNA-1
    Polk LSi9s
    Signal Cable ICs
    Blue Jeans cables
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    Doesn't Jim Hagerman have a phono preamp/DAC bundled as one of his 'semi-kits'?
    That would be a good way to go, methinks. www.hagtech.com
    I'm not afraid to try a kit as long as it is idiot proof.
    Which one is it, the website reads like the TV guide...
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2013
    mrbiron wrote: »
    I'm not afraid to try a kit as long as it is idiot proof.
    Which one is it, the website reads like the TV guide...

    He has 2, the Bugle (http://www.hagtech.com/bugle.html) and the Bugle 2 (http://www.hagtech.com/bugle2.html). The Bugle 2 is new as of this year. Its a total re-vamp of the Bugle. Heard good things about both.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    So the bugle kit includes EVERYTHING? I just have to solder and put together all for a measly 189?

    Just correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds too easy.
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2013
    mrbiron wrote: »
    So the bugle kit includes EVERYTHING? I just have to solder and put together all for a measly 189?

    Just correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds too easy.

    As far as I aware that's the case. I will look again when I am home to make sure.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    I'm still exploring all different avenues of options. The Bugle2, for its size and price point has gotten exceptional reviews across the board.
    I was also looking at the Bottlehead Pre but it may be out of league and price point. Never done P2P before.
    Also found a pre (Lounge LCR Phono) made by a guy named Morinix on the Steve Hoffman forum. Have read good reviews on this on many different forums and it isn't much more than the Bugle2.

    I'm a cheap, torn bastage!
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2013
    mrbiron wrote: »
    I'm a cheap, torn bastage!

    But at least your a cheap torn bastage with options :wink:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,670
    edited August 2013
    My Cambridge has been a great phono Pre for price.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited August 2013
    I got a used Parasound z-phono for a friend used from a fellow polkie, it was around a hundred used shipped, and I was pretty impressed with its sound for the money. He used it with a Thorens TT, Yamaha CR-820 receiver and large Advents. I had a PS Audio IVa phono stage at the time and when I compared them I really couldn't tell much difference. It did not have the USB option though. Can't speak to that. Heard lots of good things about the Hags too, but no experience with them personally.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,806
    edited August 2013
    DSCN5316.jpg

    P1020762.jpg

    The Bottlehead entry level phono preamp (is it still a Seduction variant, or does Doc B have a newer one?) is decent but it's gotten to be kind of expensive for what it is and how good it sounds. It is also (for me, at least) a little short on gain. FWIW, I find point to point, in general, easier (not to mention more forgiving!) than modern PCBs. The issues, for me, with PCBs anymore are 1) while good quality ones are fine, poor quality PCBs tend to be unforgiving if overheated/reheated for rework - the traces tend to lift (which is tedious to repair/work around) and 2) The designs have gotten to be so compact/efficent that it can take some care not to inadvertently form 'bridges' of solder across traces/solder pads :-( Not a good thing.

    That said, while I own a Bugle (and its Hagerman P/S and a Piccolo MC step up headamp!), I haven't built one (much less the new version II!)... I suspect the board quality is very good but I wonder about the component spacing in terms of a presbyopic, fat-fingered schlub like me.

    PS - mbiron, I am not as conveniently located in your vicinity as I used to be, but I can offer a Seduction and/or an original Bugle for a test-listen loan if you have any interest (and could schlepp up to Lexington some time to pick it/them up!).
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    LEXINGTON!...The borough will miss you dearly.
    My current jobsite is at the end of the Fresh Pond rotary in Cambridge meaning i drive past you twice a day every day. It's only a mere 58 miles to and from work. I'll be there for at least the next year+ so we are closer than we were before.
    http://www.bozzuto.com/apartments/communities/281-atmark-cambridge
    Aren't the renderings pretty! It'll look much worse when i'm done with it!!!!

    I would love to take you up on your offer but i will have to wait, see, my first is slated to be born within the next 10 days and i don't know what i'll have for time and would feel guilty having one of your pieces sitting idle whilst i wipe somebody else's butt other than mine. Maybe when things settle down for a bit, i could grab one or the other for a week if that would be alright. That is always an option.

    I think i'm going to grab the Bugle2 for the short cash and put it together when i have some spare time. Then, we'd have a chance to compare the two. I may also pick up another one just for sh*ts and giggles to keep me occupied. What the other one is has yet to be determined.
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,806
    edited August 2013
    mrbiron wrote: »
    ...
    I would love to take you up on your offer but i will have to wait, see, my first is slated to be born within the next 10 days .. Maybe when things settle down for a bit, i could grab one or the other for a week if that would be alright. That is always an option.

    I think i'm going to grab the Bugle2 for the short cash and put it together when i have some spare time. Then, we'd have a chance to compare the two. I may also pick up another one just for sh*ts and giggles to keep me occupied. What the other one is has yet to be determined.

    It's good to see a man with his priorities straight! ;-)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    Priorities are set by my wife......and my soon to be roommate:wink:

    So, should i even bother with the bottlehead? It's only $369.
    http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/reduction-phono-preamplifier-kit
    I was just a little curious how it was an ever expensive piece. Can you elaborate?

    Still going to pick up the bugle2 and will build it while roommate 1&2 sleep.
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,806
    edited August 2013
    I have the very-original Seduction (in fact, mine was one of the very first production kits he shipped; a birthday present from my wife to me!); it has no upgrades except it was retrofitted with the shielded power transformer and I put snooty 6922s in it :-) The sound is good but the gain is limited, it is not dead quiet (although it's not bad - 'specially with the "new" PT)... but it is not, in all candor, particularly resolving nor particularly dynamic. The C4S upgrade may well improve the Seduction considerably - I don't have ears-on experience, though.

    The Bugle is at least on-par with the Seduction (and cheaper); they are both good bargains compared to the op-amp in a black box phono preamps that are sold by numerous quasi-audiophile companies for 500 smackers or so, I'd opine :-) An octal-tube variation on Hagerman's Coronet left 'em both high and dry, as does the JLTI (soiled state) phono preamp I am using now. They're both considerably pricier, though (one does tend to get what one pays for). That Bellari hybrid is a toy (IMO).

    I'd say beta-test a Seduction before plunking down 369 Samoleums. That said. the current version may be better than mine, though.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    edited August 2013
    I think...i will buy both.
    I'm just scared of tubes...they are basically fire in a glass vile sitting on a shelf. Cat's love shtuff like that!
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,806
    edited August 2013
    the good thing about a preamp is that the tubes are "small signal" - there's no power amplifier, so the plate (B-plus) voltages and HV current are fairly low... and the tubes don't get too hot. There is a fuse, too.

    Now a push-pull parallel power amplifier using TV sweep tubes (e.g., the McIntosh MC-3500 much beloved of the Grateful Dead once upon a time) is capable of doin' some damage... a Bottlehead Seduction, not so much.

    Plenty of juice there to execute a curious kitteh, though... but remember the old saying...
    Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction brought him back.

    http://www.oestex.com/tubes/Mac/MC-3500.html

    mc3500b.gif
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter