Russman...

organ

Looks like the RF-15 will work out with the nOhr. Two people suggested ASL over the nOhr though.

I can't get a link to the thread so here's a copy and paste:

Will this set up produce good spl?

__organ
Posted: _12/30/2003_10:31:52 PM
organ
Cool Newbie


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Will the RF-15 put out some serious spl with the nOrh SE9 integrated tube amp in a small room?_ The int is rated at 9w/ch.

www.nohr.com/products/se9/index.html

Thanks

Maurice

_

---

Klipsch RF-35
Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio RT800i
CD:_ NAD C541
Pre:_ Antique Sound Lab AQ-2004DT
NAD C160, Rotel RC-971
Amp:_ Dyna ST-70, NAD C160
All cables from Monster and XLO

"Spirit rideth with the ones that knows no fear"_ -IMMORTAL



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/30/2003_10:31:52 PM___|___IP: _Recorded

There are 19_replies to this message._There are_19_replies on this page.
__lynnm
Posted: _12/30/2003_10:55:54 PM
lynnm
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A 9 watt/ch amp will yield an SPL of 106db +/- at 1 metre ( approximately 39" ) from each speaker resulting in a combined 107-108 db Spl at that distance. Translation = LOUD
That little Norh might be a little hard put to play really loud in a large room but the combination of 9 watts/channel and 96 db/w/metre looks like a winner for a small room.
The other consideration is that even those with powerful amplifiers rarely draw more than a few watts under normal listening conditions. Braggin' rights aside most ( even those of y'all with 3 sets of organs Like fini) listen to music at the 60-70db. level most of the time. You would be getting there within that first watt.

---

It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.875 BCE)



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/30/2003_10:55:54 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Audio Flynn
Posted: _12/30/2003_11:14:00 PM
Audio Flynn
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SPL ios not a primary objective!

---

-Chorus IIs
-Sony DVP-S530D DVD player as a Transport
-MSB Link II D/A converter
-Yamaha CT-800 analog tuner
-Waltham Integration P6D amplifier
....pulse width modulation design; 6 watts per channel, sometimes
-Scott LK-48 tube integrated amplifier; NOS VALVES Complete rebuild and bias mod, full time
-J. A. Michell Focus One 'S'_ turntable with Grado Signature 8 cart and Mission "Mechanic" arm
-Audio Quest Coral patchcord
-Audio Quest Digital 1
-Audio Quest Type 4+ speaker wire
-HT system is RB-5 based with DVD Audio



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/30/2003_11:14:00 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Hepta Bronte
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:01:59 AM
Hepta Bronte
Crazy Poster


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Maurice's primary objective obviously isn't 'loudness'. I mean, looking at a 9 watt amp makes that kind of obvious.
"A 9 watt/ch amp will yield an SPL of 106db +/- at 1 metre ( approximately 39" ) from each speaker resulting in a combined 107-108 db Spl at that distance. Translation = LOUD"
I wish folks would quit figuring it this way, because it doesn't work. 5 minutes with some watt meters, and an SPL meter -- shows just how far off figuring SPL as above is. If you have 9 watts, and use all 9 watts -- you'll be in clipping 75% of the time. Also, if those speakers are not positioned in corners, sensitivity will drop to 92db/w.
I can safely predict that with that amp, in an average size room, with those speakers, a steady 85db, with near 90db peaks will be reached -- cleanly. This is probably plenty loud enough for most people, but not all. Personally, I consider 60db to be a near whisper.

---

2003 Oak Klipschorns
Van Alstine FET Valve 350Exr
Van Alstine Transcendence 7Ecr
Sony DVPS9000ES
GODISNOWHERE



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:01:59 AM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__jt1stcav
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:10:51 AM
jt1stcav
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I'm lousy at math...how does that translate with an 8 watt amp driving horns with 98.5dB @ 1W/1M? Maybe about 107 or 108dB at 1 meter? According to Dean, most likely much less. My Cornwalls are in the corners slightly toed in.

---

My 1990 McIntosh MC7200 200 WPC power amplifier (now sold):
My previous 1976 McIntosh MC2100 solid-state stereo power amplifier:
My current two-channel audio system:

* 1979 Klipsch Cornwall loudspeakers (C-BR Decorator model, serial # 21T562 & 21T563, all original!)
* 1973 McIntosh MC250 stereo power amplifier (solid-state 50 WPC, no modifications.)
* 2001 AMC CD8b CD player (with 24bit / 96kHz Burr Brown DAC, four isolation cones from Acoustic Research.)
* 2002 Cardas QuadLink-5C interconnects (one meter pair.)
* 2002 Orbeck Stratti speaker cables (11 AWG, ten foot pair, unterminated.)
* 2001 Monster Power HTS 5000 line conditioner.
My current two-channel computer system:

* 2003 Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 satellites and 130 watt powered subwoofer.
* 2002 DIY personal computer (Abit KT7A, 1GHz AMD Athlon, 512MB RAM, 10GB HD, SoundBlaster PCI512, Windows XP Pro.)
Jim Tidwell, Lakeland, Florida.


Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:10:51 AM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Audio Flynn
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:21:21 AM
Audio Flynn
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Dean,

The deal is what music software preferences and other considerations are important.

Some people use a Nohr; some sold it.

It may not have the "meat", detail, and fullness one would quest for, from other comments I have read in_ the past year.

As you have said...

SPL is influenced by many factors.

-distance from speakers
-room size and orientation
-placement in realtion ot reart wall and corner


Nothing I have read indicates a Nohr is a long term investment.

NOTE

Room sizes in Europe are small.

Large houses are for the aristocracy.

Nohr is a european desin as I recall.

---

-Chorus IIs
-Sony DVP-S530D DVD player as a Transport
-MSB Link II D/A converter
-Yamaha CT-800 analog tuner
-Waltham Integration P6D amplifier
....pulse width modulation design; 6 watts per channel, sometimes
-Scott LK-48 tube integrated amplifier; NOS VALVES Complete rebuild and bias mod, full time
-J. A. Michell Focus One 'S'_ turntable with Grado Signature 8 cart and Mission "Mechanic" arm
-Audio Quest Coral patchcord
-Audio Quest Digital 1
-Audio Quest Type 4+ speaker wire
-HT system is RB-5 based with DVD Audio



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:21:21 AM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Johnny dB
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:22:54 AM
Johnny dB
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Tommorow morning, I will hook up my 8W/ch tube amp to my Khorns, bust out the Digital sound meter, and voila, I'll post my test results._ I love science projects.

---

Klipschorns
HH Scott 299A {NOSvalve job}

LaScalas
McIntosh MC250



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:22:54 AM ___|___ IP: _Recorded


_

organ

_Klipschfoot
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:58:14 AM
Klipschfoot
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---

SPL ios not a primary objective!

---

I remember an album, maybe James Gang - Rides Again?, that had "made loud to be played loud" inscribed either in the inner blank groove or, perhaps, it was on the album spine. So, there CAN be an invitation to crank it from the artist. Just ask The Nuge!





Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:58:14 AM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Johnny dB
Posted: _12/31/2003_12:52:19 PM
Johnny dB
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Test results are in!
First the setup:
_ _ S-5 8 watts/ch tube amp_ uses 4 x 11ms8.
_ _ Dynaco CDV-1 CDP
_ _ 2 x Klipschorns
_ _ Tape measure
_ _ Radio Shack Digital Sound Level Meter

_ After letting the amp warm up for over an hour, popped in Norah Jones CD. With the volume at 12:00 on the CDP and 11:00 on the amp. 98dB w/ peaks at 102dB @ 39" approx 1 meter._ Then I popped in the Toadies CD. 100dB w/ peaks reaching 106dB._ Sound was still nice and clean. If the volume went any higher than that, sound quality degraded drastically.

---

Klipschorns
HH Scott 299A {NOSvalve job}

LaScalas
McIntosh MC250



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_12:52:19 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__NOSValves
Posted: _12/31/2003_12:59:08 PM
NOSValves
Increase Dosage


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John,
Why at 39" what about in the spot you listen at ?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Craig

---

All my posts are now spell and grammer checked with MS Word for the sake of Allan Songers pain relief
Scott 130 Pre-amplifier
Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A Modified
Extremely Modified Dynaco Mark III's
Music Hall MMF-7 w/Goldring Eroica
Pioneer SX-780 Receiver_
JVC JL-F50 Turn Table w/Shure M-97E MM
Sony C-333ES SACD playe "Awesome"
Klipsch Lascala
KSW-15 Sub "rarely used"


Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_12:59:08 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Johnny dB
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:04:53 PM
Johnny dB
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That was reference the point they used in earlier post.

---

Klipschorns
HH Scott 299A {NOSvalve job}

LaScalas
McIntosh MC250



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:04:53 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Johnny dB
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:07:48 PM
Johnny dB
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From my listening position (11'6") from both speakers. 99dB w/ peaks @ 101dB. That's w/ Tool in the CDP.

---

Klipschorns
HH Scott 299A {NOSvalve job}

LaScalas
McIntosh MC250



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:07:48 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Colin
Posted: _12/31/2003_1:38:24 PM
Colin
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---

On 12/30/2003 10:31:52 PM organ wrote:

Will the RF-15 put out some serious spl with the nOrh SE9 integrated tube amp in a small room?_ The int is rated at 9w/ch.

www.nohr.com/products/se9/index.html

Thanks

Maurice

---

Yes, the nOrh SE9 will put out loud SPL, but that is not the issue, any noisy receiver will put out crap that sounds loud, compared to other tube amplifiers, like the ASL, I think you will be disappointed by the SE9 sound with big ole horns, I know that I was…

---

_ _ _ Colin's 2-Channel HT System_ _ __ Ak-2 Khorns, Klipsch subs: lights out & tubes glowing!



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_1:38:24 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded

organ

_Hepta Bronte
Posted: _12/31/2003_2:40:14 PM
Hepta Bronte
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That's about right John.
Now, let's figure it using just math that most use.
The Klipschorn is 104db/w, add 3db for the other speaker, and we are sitting at 107db/w.
1 watt = 107db
2 watts = 110db
4 watts = 113db
8 watts = 117db
You are about 12' back, and so now we subtract 3db for every 3 feet you move away from the speakers.
117db at 3 feet
114db at 6 feet
111db at 9 feet
108db at 12 feet
So now, someone would say that with 8 watts and Klipschorns, you should be able to hit 108db, 12 feet away -- but that's not what you found is it? In fact, you found EXACTLY what we have been saying since last month: That you need between 3 and 5 times the steady state amount (depending on recording), to reproduce the peaks cleanly. Your ears were telling you that 99db was pretty much IT. Where did the rest of the ouput go? This is the difference between "watts", and "acoustic watts".
Now, and I know this is hard for people to accept, but because of the soft clipping nature of tubes, and especially SET amps -- dynamic peak restriction is clearly evident when you compare lower power to higher power. For example: with a 30 watt amp, your steady 99db would have been generating peaks of near 104db. Try your experiment again with another amp. Take it up to 99db and watch the peaks.

---

2003 Oak Klipschorns
Van Alstine FET Valve 350Exr
Van Alstine Transcendence 7Ecr
Sony DVPS9000ES
GODISNOWHERE



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_2:40:14 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Johnny dB
Posted: _12/31/2003_2:48:59 PM
Johnny dB
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Learning is fun!

I'll have to do the SPL thing with the MC250, tomorrow. I have to go earn a living now. Can't just sit on my couch all day and play with my meter.

---

Klipschorns
HH Scott 299A {NOSvalve job}

LaScalas
McIntosh MC250



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_2:48:59 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__sfogg
Posted: _12/31/2003_2:58:29 PM
sfogg
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Dean,

" and so now we subtract 3db for every 3 feet you move away from the speakers. "

Where do you get that number from?

The normal fall off of a point source speaker is -6dB every time you double the distance. It is the inverse square law.

For a line source it is about -3dB every time you double the distance.

I believe a horn is closer to a line source then a point source in power drop off since its output is more focused.

JOOC, I was playing around with this a little last night.

Playing a pink noise source (equal energy per band which is a little more brutal then *most* music) to hit 85dB at my listening position (C weighted which reduces the SPL level a little because of the lower weighting in the bass) from one speaker playing was about 0.93v on my RMS multi-meter. I didn't get a chance to crack out my bench meter or my unweighted RTA. Making the assumption that the speaker was presenting about a 6ohm load I was putting about 0.1w into it.

That test tone was recorded at -20dB on the CD. Without changing my systems volume I can then determine that to reach the highest peak I would need 10w of power.

85dB at 0.1w (record level -20dB)
95dB at 1w_ (record level -10dB)
105dB at 10w (record level 0dBFS)

For those also into HT you might recognize that 105dB peak per speaker at the listening position is THX Reference Level for main channel speakers.

Shawn




Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_2:58:29 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__sfogg
Posted: _12/31/2003_6:06:06 PM
sfogg
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I just checked my notes and need to make a correction to the above numbers... when I tested in my normal setup of the speakers high passed at 60hz I was measuring .81v for 85dB at the listening position. That equated to the 0.1w I posted above.

When I was running the speakers full range I was measuring 0.93v which is:

0.14w of power at 85dB (record level -20dB)

So I'd need
1.4w of power for 95dB_ (record level -10dB)
14w of power for 105dB (record level 0dBFS)

Shawn




Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_6:06:06 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__lynnm
Posted: _12/31/2003_7:46:10 PM
lynnm
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I submit that the original question was whether the n0rh amp could drive those speakers to serious SPL's and my answer was and is yes. Furthermore the original post specified that the room is a small one. All the more reason to state that the system could indeed reach high volume levels.
I cannot comment on the sound of that amp as I have never heard one but I have no reason to suspect that it should not be a decent little amplifier and well suited to high efficiency speakers. I second the recommendtion regarding Antiqe Sound Lab amps having been well pleased with my AQ1003DT.
Dean I think you need to rethink your ideas about the need for large amps with Khorns. My AQ1003DT is rated as being able to deliver 30_ watts per channel and believe me when that baby is cranking my horns the walls are vibrating and the windows and window blinds sometimes rattle......Soooooooo do I need 2 or 3 times that power to get the best from my horns ?
I don't think so unless I were trying to deafen the next door neighbours

---

It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.875 BCE)



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_7:46:10 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__Hepta Bronte
Posted: _12/31/2003_11:21:51 PM
Hepta Bronte
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Oh Lynn, I agree with you completely. I think 30 watts is plenty with Klipschorns, in fact it was perfect amount with the RF-7s. 30 watts is a number I'm very comfortable with. It's 10 watts and under that I'm a little leary of -- but only because of peak demands at the higher levels.
My next venture, though power being way beyond what is necessary or even reasonable -- is more centered around my curiosity regarding the sound of the circuit. I just want to hear a good hybrid approach, and see what the Klipschorns do with an amp not influenced by variations in load impedance.

---

2003 Oak Klipschorns
Van Alstine FET Valve 350Exr
Van Alstine Transcendence 7Ecr
Sony DVPS9000ES
GODISNOWHERE



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _12/31/2003_11:21:51 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded
__organ
Posted: _1/1/2004_5:54:56 PM
organ
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Total Posts:_11
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Thanks a lot for the help guys._ Someone I know on the Polk forum is thinking about that amp to go with a pair of RF-15._ He took a look at ASL as well and I see that some of you recommend the ASL over nOhr._

Thanks for the help.

Maurice

---

Klipsch RF-35
Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio RT800i
CD:_ NAD C541
Pre:_ Antique Sound Lab AQ-2004DT
NAD C160, Rotel RC-971
Amp:_ Dyna ST-70, NAD C160
All cables from Monster and XLO

"Spirit rideth with the ones that knows no fear"_ -IMMORTAL



Revisions : 0___|___ Posted: _1/1/2004_5:54:56 PM ___|___ IP: _Recorded

audiobliss

:eek:

Did anyone ever even read all of that?? I didn't!!

MrNightly

audiobliss wrote:

:eek:

Did anyone ever even read all of that?? I didn't!!

Then why are you responding??!!??

VR3

MrNightly wrote:

Then why are you responding??!!??

Because he's Audiobliss.