Wyred4Sound mono's arrived today

polkfarmboy
polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
edited July 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
Seems like these bad boys are not wyred for enough bass lol. I want to go to the bathroom and throw up after selling my primaluna monoblocks :sad: :sad:

I have been trying everything and just cannot get the cones on my Vista's moving. I also find that I have to really crank that volume up way higher than I did with the primaluna's. These almost come off as a little bright but they are just highly detailed. I wish the mids had more weight and the bass more slam.

Well for me the sx 500 are just a little too thin for me and lack that analog quality and sound more like my anthem mca HT amp
Post edited by polkfarmboy on
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited July 2013
    You running Balanced? I noticed the XLR connections provided dramatically better bass.
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited July 2013
    Once you go tube, you never go back lol
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited July 2013
    brianle wrote: »
    Once you go tube, you never go back lol

    Tubes, smoobs . . . just give me a well-designed, balanced amp that sounds awesome and I don't care what's under the hood.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    I am running platinum eclipse ic's but I do have a pair of balanced 1.6 meter eclipse 6 ic's but then I would have to bust em out of the box as they are brand new. I cannot see a drastic improvement comming from that though, they have incredible detail but its to the point where they come off as dry
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited July 2013
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    I am running platinum eclipse ic's but I do have a pair of balanced 1.6 meter eclipse 6 ic's but then I would have to bust em out of the box as they are brand new. I cannot see a drastic improvement comming from that though, they have incredible detail but its to the point where they come off as dry

    The dryness is definitely a result of those B&O boards. I had W4S for years and thought they mated very well with my tube pres. When I switched to a direct-dac-pre solution the W4S were too much. I had various tube monos but eventually settled on a pair of D-Sonic Amps, which are amazing. More power and more detail than the W4S gear without the harshness. They're liquid smooth and I love them with my Revel F208s.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    Thats what I am doing right now Solid, running them direct from the perfectwave dac
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited July 2013
    Frankly I'm surprised at your findings. How long die you let them run before coming to that conclusion? That class D design is know for their iron fist control on bass. The one's you purchased are the babies of the lineup...maybe try the next model up with more horsepower. I can only comment that my 600w monos are the bomb & leave nothing to the imagination. Maybe your speakers will respond with a higher powered mono. Did you think about sending them back & try another pair? I know it's a pain but you need to know. Good luck on the endeavor.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    Well I bought them used so I am stuck with them and may just toss them into the HT setup. I always find that the high current stuff is best with the Martin Logans. I do not think that the sound will be a night and day diff with the higher powered model so maybe I should try some class A mono's
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  • nguyendot
    nguyendot Posts: 3,594
    edited July 2013
    I bet if you power them on and break them in by dropping a TV on them it'll kick them into "high gear"....

    I kid..lol
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited July 2013
    Your first mistake was thinking the smaller W4S mono's was going to unseat the Primaluna's. Second mistake is not getting an ear on them before hand. Switching out higher class mono's is nothing to sneeze at.

    The D-Sonics as suggested is probably considered a step up from W4S fare. Sell them if you don't like them, try something else. That's the fun of it all. Going to ask, if you liked the Primaluna's so much, why did you feel a need to switch them out in the first place ?
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    I wanted more power at higher volumes and a little more sparkle up top a so I thought mono blocks putting 550 wpc when my Vistas double down in the ohms department might do the trick. I was following the lead of another member on the ML forum who got these after getting rid of his tubes and he was praising them alot but not me lol

    The sound from these reminds me of the anthem mrx receiver I had for a short time. I will have to scour the web to see if anyone shares my findings and has had better luck adding a tube pre. The tone has lost its accuracy like I got from the prima's as it had such a soulful sound that captured the emotion of a singer way better
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,498
    edited July 2013
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    I always find that the high current stuff is best with the Martin Logans.

    Your Vista's have a passive crossover, right? ESL panels actually like voltage. When driving a resistive load, the voltage and current flow together. In a capacitive load such as an ESL, the current and voltage are out of phase. If the capacitive load messes with an amp, it can sound underpowered and harsh. If they have protective circuitry a capacitive load can cause it to trip. Not sure what you have going on, but I'd investigate to learn more. Maybe call Wyred and get their input.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    Well right now I am breaking out the RTI8 speakers
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    I was playing around with the source speakers and the bass has picked up for sure but still that dry overall character. I just put in the RTI8 and the sound is completely different as the mids have fleshed out way more and there is plenty of slam as I am putting some Danzig through them so its basically my electrostats that hate them
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited July 2013
    PFB sorry the synergy not working for you, been there done that.

    That being said have you or anyone else considered a DIY class D:

    Hypex ENCOR 400
    http://www.hypex.nl/technology/ncore.html

    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110782.0

    http://www.siliconray.com/re2507-nc-enclosure-for-2-channels-hypex-nc400.html
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2013
    I doubt those would give him what he's looking for either. Most the newer and better Class D amps sound more similar than different. I'd recommend a tube pre for the best of both worlds. Tube harmonics and imaging with SS bass grip.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited July 2013
    I would also recommend a tubed pre that uses a tube variety that produces heavy amounts of bass. I know for 12AX7's, if you do RCA black plates they will give you a lot of bass. They also have excellent tone, imaging and soundstage (they are long plates). The only downside is clarity is slightly lacking. ONLY slightly however.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited July 2013
    Well, that sux.

    Just keep in the back of your mind, your probably going to be in this hobby for some time to come, so this is just another step towards your dream system, not the end of the world.
    You probably would have kicked yourself for NOT trying them somewhere down the line.
    Now you know.

    Nice system.:cool:
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    I think I may look into some primaluna dialogue 7 mono's as they can be had for reasonably cheap on the used market as I am not buying new prima's again
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited July 2013
    How bout used pair of Rogue m180? :)

    http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-rogue-audio-m180-monoblock-tube-amplifier-pair-2013-07-25-amplifiers-60622
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    Well if I had a spare 3k right now then I would probably go for a cstmar's VTL tube amps in the flee market
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2013
    Having owned ICEpower, Class D Audio, and currently Hypex, they all sound a little different and are not all the same quality. All are high power class-D and do very well with woofers and bass. IMO, ICEpower is the standard and can deliver the highest power, Class D Audio is less expensive but offer a little less in SQ, and Hypex has the best SQ with lower power output; 200wpc @ 8 ohm and 400wpc @ 4 ohms on my amp. Hypex does the best with high frequencies as they sound pretty neutral, and don't have the roll off that ICEpower does.

    I'm not sure which technology D-Sonic currently uses, but they are commercially available unlike most Hypex designs if you wanted to go away from W4S. The best combination I've ever heard is class-D on the bass and tubes on the highs/mids.
    Jake
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,498
    edited July 2013
    Old technology, SS bass grip and no tubes needed....:smile:
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2013
    You also couldn't beat a Sanders amp for your electrostatics.
    Jake
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2013
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    running them direct from the perfectwave dac

    Tubes Rule!

    Now that I have that off my chest... I've run into several scenarios where putting the correct preamp between a source and amp makes all the difference. What you describe is what I've experienced, no real body to speak of, dry, pretty much no synergy. Personally I'd go with a higher powered tube amp.

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2013
    Can you borrow a preamp from someone local and see if it makes a difference between the amp and the DAC?
    Jake
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,498
    edited July 2013
    zingo wrote: »
    You also couldn't beat a Sanders amp for your electrostatics.

    And I still can't due to the active crossover bass amp/gain issue. A digital crossover solved that due to the ability to add more gain to the panel amp but created other problems, like an audible hum where none had existed before. I've also put that Sanders amp on conventional speakers. Some sounded great, some not.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2013
    When my primaluna mono's were connected direct to the perfectwave dac it sounded great especially with the platinum and gold interconnects. If I add a pre to my system I need another pair of platinum and an expensive ac cable so that eats up the budget from my next purchase...what to do what to do
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  • Jhayman
    Jhayman Posts: 1,548
    edited July 2013
    Sorry to HEAR you not happy with your new purchase, so back to chasing the rabbit I guess, In a GOOD way..:lol:
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,498
    edited July 2013
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    ...what to do what to do

    Go back to what worked for you. Due to switching between analog and digital sources I use a pre amp. I don't agree with max about tubes ruling anything, but I do agree about synergy when using a pre amp between sources and amp.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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