thoughts about equalisers and sound shapers

leftwinger57

I was just wondering about how improvement if any would a graphic equaliser or sound shaper make on a 2 chl system.We used to see them all the time SAE was famous for them and ADC plus many other brands. If, like I have the Onkyo P-301 pre and does a good job of dialing the sound your looking for are the equs any benifit for those finite adjustments or just another device in the stream clouding the mix.

ZLTFUL

I think EQs can be beneficial if you have severe room correction to deal with.
If you have a good neutral listening space, then I think they tend to add unwanted color.

Just my humble opinion.

Mikey081057

I don't even have bass and treble controls on my 2 channel rig. Even when I did, I never used them. Always set everything to flat.

nooshinjohn

Just say no...

F1nut

Evil, evil, evil. 'Nuff said.

Face

DSP before D/A conversion is fine, anything afterwards raises the noise floor.

nspindel

+1 for no tone controls or EQ. If you don't like how your gear sounds, get different gear.

BlueFox

Face wrote: »

DSP before D/A conversion is fine, anything afterwards raises the noise floor.

I suspect you will see this become standard as time goes by even in two channel gear. Room correction software will help bring out the best in any room.

leftwinger57

Gotcha, Mass unapproval. Never owned one and have 0 intention of getting one .Just wondering.

BlueFox

Mikey081057 wrote: »

I don't even have bass and treble controls on my 2 channel rig. Even when I did, I never used them. Always set everything to flat.

I bet you might give these a try, bass and treble on the right.



http://www.dagostinoinc.com/

sucks2beme

Mixed feelings. My 2 channel doesn't have bass/treble. The real problem is what you think you hear that
is wrong. I have played with Foobar eq with headphones. I tried doing it by ear, and it didn't really work.
I then pulled out some posted charts of the frequency response, and that pinpointed an issue
at 9k. There was a nasty peak. Made the adjustment- all was good. EQ can be good, but most
people including myself have trouble pinpointing the problem bands to make the adjustments to.

Fongolio

I'm going to boldly state that I love what my ADC Soundshaper III does to correct room and (sometimes) poorly mastered music. I've tried listening with all tone and EQ off but just end up finding it too flat and not lively enough. The traditional "happy face" curve on the equalizer makes the room sound more neutral. This is confirmed with a spectrum analyzer. I've set the room to dead neutral with the spectrum analyzer and it's close to what my ears prefer. The room also has some treatments but without the eq I'd be tweaking forever until I found what I liked. The ADC I'm using is very quiet and in my opinion takes nothing away. When I bypass it when it's set to neutral on all frequencies I can hear no change in sound whatsoever. I've never understood this trend toward no tone controls or sound shapers. When used correctly and with good quiet equipment they can add greatly to one's musical enjoyment. Flame ON!!!!

chungasrevenge

I've used mine for years, no intention of not using it.

steveinaz

F1nut wrote: »

Evil, evil, evil. 'Nuff said.

Exactly, it's a "more harm than good" scenario 90% of the time; AND it's adding another box full of electronics in the chain.

sucks2beme

Once again it's a tool. Not always the right tool for the job. And don't cut
off a finger using it.

Msabot1

I use one but think of it as using spice on good chow...a little improves the taste...too much ruins it!

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

Exactly, it's a "more harm than good" scenario 90% of the time; AND it's adding another box full of electronics in the chain.

Bingo....though I can understand why some want to use one. A cheap alternative to switching out gear. Back in the day, I was always having to adjust mine with almost every song. One setting would sound good on a certain recording but horrible on another. Pain in the arse if you ask me and worth less than a paper weight these days.

TroyD

Rule#1....do no harm

Rule#2 ...the more buttons, switches and knobs, generally, the worse it sounds (George Grand, of the Jersey Grands)

tonyb

Rule #2 is somewhat true....in the world of 2 channel anyway.

When you look at some higher end processors from Anthem,Cary and the likes, you see lots of buttons but SQ certainly is no slouch even for 2 channel.

Rule #1 should be....if you like what you hear, leave it the f#$k alone. :cheesygrin:

Jhayman

But some of them had really cool multicoloured lights that bounce or dance with the music, lol
I think they called them Spectrum Analyzers then I thought they were really cool but I have Grown since then,lol
Just food for thought, if you like the way it makes your music sound then use it that's all that matters, your Ears..

F1nut wrote: »

Evil, evil, evil. 'Nuff said.

brianle

Rule #1: There is no rule :cheesygrin: if you like what you hear in your system, then go for it

bmor

Would it be fair to say you can draw a line between traditional analogue equalisers and those that operate in the digital domain, like MiniDSP, Dspeaker anti-mode and some of the Behringer products? I recently used REW to identify some suspected room modes giving me trouble and now want to try some room correction. I didn't even consider using an old school equaliser, not wanting to add more stuff in the chain as others have mentioned, but I'm leaning towards the MiniDSP OpenDRC-DI for an all digital solution.

Mikey081057

BlueFox wrote: »

I bet you might give these a try, bass and treble on the right.



http://www.dagostinoinc.com/

Correct you are sir... If you have a spare on laying around send it may way... I will even pay fedex overnite. They were on the cover of one of the audio rags, and it is **** for sure.

specd_out

I am actually getting my dads adc sound shaper 2 soon. Looking forward to learning with it. I currently have been using rew to help with room correction through my pc and plan on getting a mini dsp for everything else.

The whole eq thing is new to me and having physical sliders will help me learn easier what sounds/instruments are in what freq range.I have heard that people run the we in the tape loop, so they can engage it or listen to straight. Plus all the rows of leds is pretty cool looking.

joeparaski

I run an SAE parametric EQ. I've run eq's in my system since the 80's and I wouldn't go without one. Running things flat just sounds.....flat. I like to spice it up.

Joe

Face

bmor wrote: »

Would it be fair to say you can draw a line between traditional analogue equalisers and those that operate in the digital domain, like MiniDSP, Dspeaker anti-mode and some of the Behringer products? I recently used REW to identify some suspected room modes giving me trouble and now want to try some room correction. I didn't even consider using an old school equaliser, not wanting to add more stuff in the chain as others have mentioned, but I'm leaning towards the MiniDSP OpenDRC-DI for an all digital solution.

Behringer's DSP amps use the cheapest DSP chips available, I'd avoid them. MiniDSP can sound good if you feed it a digital signal and know what you're doing. If you have a room with bass trouble, multiple subs is your answer: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White%20Papers/multsubs.pdf If you absolutely need EQ bass frequencies, get a sub and amp with a lot of headroom.

Thorton

Face wrote: »

Behringer's DSP amps use the cheapest DSP chips available, I'd avoid them. MiniDSP can sound good if you feed it a digital signal and know what you're doing. If you have a room with bass trouble, multiple subs is your answer: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White%20Papers/multsubs.pdf If you absolutely need EQ bass frequencies, get a sub and amp with a lot of headroom.

+1. From my very limited experience, this did make things much easier for me in my large room for 2 channel. However, I do want to explore multeq xt32 or an add-on bass management to see if I can improve further.

bmor

Face, thanks for the link, interesting read. In my case my 2 channel rig is in the living room so even one sub is probably out of the question, let alone multiples. I think I'll be ordering an OpenDRC-DI to play with this winter.