Upgrade my Sub or add a 2nd Sub ?

jamers99

I currently have a DSWPro500 sub with RTiA5 Fronts, CSi A6 Center, and OWM3 Surrounds in a dedicated theater room (no music). Looking for more Movie Boom.

Should I upgrade me DSWPro500 to a DSWPro660 or should I simply add a 2nd DSWPro500 (now DSWPro550) ?

I guess another option would be to swap out my Fronts for RTiA9's but that is a much more expensive option. Not sure if it would be worth it or not.

B Run

If you want to upgrade to more movie boom i'd sell it and go with a HSU, SVS, CHT, or Epik (If they're still making them). There's always something to be said for running dual subs but I tried it and can promise you one good sub is better than two decent subs imho.

Mystery

Well it depends but having multiple subs definitely helps by distributing bass evenly so one bass doesn't have to be overloaded specially if it's too far from the listener.

Here is a plethora of information on benefits of multiple subwoofers:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=291904

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=527727

http://stereos.about.com/od/optimizingperformance/a/multiplesubs.htm

Quote from one of the threads mentioned above:

dnewma04 wrote: »

Benefits:

• Reduction of significant peaks and nulls in the modal region
• Better integration with the mains
• Less expensive method of reaching the best bass performance in a given room
• You can avoid expensive processing
• Distributing the bass serves to reduce the duty on each sub, generally resulting in lower distortion due to more linear operation.
• The reduction in duty can lessen the requirements for superior performance. The need for exotic motor systems is reduced.

Drawbacks:

• Subjective preferences may go against their use.
• For best results, you'd need to have measuring equipment to pull off the best results. A mic, an FFT analyzer and a few hours to spend would be the minimum requirements.
• In conjunction with the above, traditional placement methods may not result in the best performance.
  

At the risk of going slightly off topic...

I'll give some more thought to the drawbacks, at first glance, I was tempted to say there weren't any. But, I realize that not everybody has the time, patience, equipment or desire to learn how to properly implement an optimum bass solution. There are subjective preferences based on listening experiences that can significantly bias people against subwoofers as a whole, or various methods of implementing them. There are distinct biases for and against every type of cabinet, cone material, voice coil winding material, magnet material, etc. Misconceptions rule the roost.

Distributed bass systems are very well recognized to work well in most rooms.

My personal experience involves 4 rooms using distributed bass.

1.) My own system experimentations.
2.) Geddes' system
3.) Two systems of friends of mine I've convinced to try it.

In addition, I have convinced 7 other audio friends to attempt it but haven't heard their systems first hand. 3 live on continents I've never visited, the 4 others live in distant states.

Also, there are a number of threads on the internet where people have properly implemented distributed bass systems based on JBL/Harmans, Welti's, or Geddes' system and I have yet to find anyone who has attempted it that didn't prefer the results with at least 3 subwoofers.

For me, hearing the differences was an eye opening experience and a bit of a Eureka moment. I have always been a fan of subwoofers, but had a love hate relationship with them because of the room integration issues that are involved with them. I built my first home subwoofer using an Avatar Audio Shiva in a critically damped sealed box. At my listening position, I was able to dial it in nearly perfectly. There were no apparent weaknesses in the integration between satellites and subwoofers, nothing ever drew my attention away from the mains towards the subs. However, even a slight move from my listening position and all hell broke loose with the sound. The integration i struggled to achieve in one location was all but destroyed over the matter of inches. Having someone come over and sit anywhere but the sweetspot left people with the impression I didn't have a clue on how to integrate the sub.

I then moved up to stereo subs using another Shiva in the same critically damped alignment. I was a believer, stereo bass was the way to go. I was able to get signicantly better bass with a pair of stereo subs in addition to the mains than I was with just the mains.

When I started reading Geddes' recommendations for adding a third sub, I also found the other documents and started playing around with options. Having as many as 5 subwoofers installed in my system at times with the two mains and sometimes in 5.1 mode. It was then that I discovered that the reason stereo bass performed so well is because of the second sub, not because of the fact that they were "stereo".

Each additional sub added, up to the 4th, there was a noticeable improvement. The improvement wasn't a matter of output, it was an improvement in perceived imaging. Soundstage solidified, perceived dynamics increased, measured distortion dropped, musicality of the subwoofers increased significantly. Instead of hearing the limitations imposed by no subs, one sub, or stereo subs (which at one point, I didn't feel existed until I learned more and listened more).

The ultimate implementation of distributed bass I've heard was obviously Geddes' system. Within a few seconds of listening to his system, it's obvious that his system works and works absolute wonders. With surprisingly small investment, he has created a system that likely rivals the best in the world. there is no apparent weakness. Tonality, imaging, soundstage, etc remain constant while moving around the room. Bass depth and musicality is unparalled in any systems I've heard. The number of systems I've heard is vast, back prior to getting married, I regularly traveled around the Midwest to various audio get-togethers, shows, etc and got to hear some excellent systems. Since I've been married, that has obviously slowed, but over the course of the last 10 years, I've had the privilege of hearing some of the best systems I've heard. Over the course of 20 years in the hobby, I have had just about everyone of my misconceptions shattered with experience. The distributed bass methodology is probably the latest one in a long list.

codyc1ark

B Run wrote: »

If you want to upgrade to more movie boom i'd sell it and go with a HSU, SVS, CHT, or Epik (If they're still making them). There's always something to be said for running dual subs but I tried it and can promise you one good sub is better than two decent subs imho.

+1, I understand you might be stuck on an all Polk system, but for the coin their are a lot better options to be had in subs. I'll add Outlaw to the list, for the price I love mine. Also, cross Epik off of the list, I don't think they are around anymore...

B Run

Good point, I forgot Outlaw and agree about Epik. I havent shopped for a sub in a while and the market has changed a little bit.

jamers99

Thanks, I read through those subwoofer posts. The bottom line comes down to cost. Sure a SVS would be nice and two would be better but I'm just trying to achieve noticeable improvement not iMAX Theater sound reproduction. I am a victim of my budget which is about $500.

So I've decided to just add a 2nd Polk DSWPro Sub in the rear of the room opposite corner. The question now is should I stick with another 10" or add a 12". Should both subs be the same size or could one be 10" and the other be 12" ?

Mystery

jamers99 wrote: »

Should both subs be the same size or could one be 10" and the other be 12" ?

Doesn't matter as long as you dial/set them properly.
One thing to keep in mind is that no matter how many subs are added, they don't go any lower than what they can do but the bass will be distributed better.
If your initial issue is the sub not digging deep, then definitely get something that goes around 20hz.
DSWPRO500 has 23hz in specs so getting low should be no issue and adding another one will help.
But SVS, HSU etc... will be better depending upon model.
Rule is this:
Multiple subwoofers will be better than single subwoofer of same model.
Single high end subwoofer may be better than multiple low end subwoofers but multiple high end will definitely will be better than single high end assuming all are same models.

DSkip wrote: »

Have you played around with placement of the one you already have? Location can have a big impact on on performance.

+1... room placement makes big difference.

jbooker82

I would probably go with the 12" DSW Pro 660if your wanting to add another Polk. You can get them on sale from new egg for around $359.

obieone

There is a Micrpro 1000 for $539 on Polk's ebay page.

drummer86

Wait a little longer and pick up an HSU VTF-2. Yes, I'm biased but it's got plenty of movie boom in my room. July 4th sale is still going on so might be a good time to just jump on it.

MADGSF

I agree with DSkip on trying different placement options. I have a very powerful sub but if I put it in the wrong place room acoustics suck the bass out of the system.

HHStuart

codyc1ark wrote: »

+1, I understand you might be stuck on an all Polk system, but for the coin their are a lot better options to be had in subs. I'll add Outlaw to the list, for the price I love mine. Also, cross Epik off of the list, I don't think they are around anymore...

Epik is still around as far as I know. What makes you think they are not? There is a newsletter as of June 5 of this year. I like my subwoofer from Epik.

codyc1ark

HHStuart wrote: »

Epik is still around as far as I know. What makes you think they are not? There is a newsletter as of June 5 of this year. I like my subwoofer from Epik.

I haven't seen the newsletter, just all the people that can't get their amps replaced under warranty because chad won't respond to them... Do a quick google on it.

jbooker82

codyc1ark wrote: »

I haven't seen the newsletter, just all the people that can't get their amps replaced under warranty because chad won't respond to them... Do a quick google on it.

That's the other side to dealing with an internet direct company. They cant afford to take the hit to replace a bad batch of product so they just quit responding.