Onkyo 876 lacking oomph....

BigtentBigtent Posts: 17
edited June 2013 in Forum Testing Area
My amp is just not cutting it. I have to have the volume up to nearly 3/4 to sound reasonable when watching /
listening to movies/music, eg on a scale of 1-99, start-up is 45, suitable music/movie has to be up around 70.
I am running RtiA9's, CSiA6, Proson surrounds and a couple of Sherwood subs.
Any ideas?
Polk RTiA9
Polk CSiA6
Polk FXiA6
Proson rear surr
2 x SVS PB12NSD
Pioneer SC86
Rotel 1575
RTiA3
4K Sony 65"
Sony UBP-X700
Post edited by Bigtent on

Comments

  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,354
    edited June 2013
    Thats the way they all are on avr's. The volume is designed on a scale that relates to its mastered playback level. Most soundtracks are supposed to be played back at 85db. This is considered reference level. Your volume level at 85, if calibrated would be reference level.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,974
    edited June 2013
    Your running a lot of speakers for that AVR. Those A9's will use all the power that your AVR can give, and still want more. You should really run at least a 2 channel amp with those speaker, 200 watts or more. You won't hurt the CSI A6 if you amp it either.

    Big speakers need big power.
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,354
    edited June 2013
    Yes, a nice amp will improve sound quality. But the loudness will be the same at any given spot on the dial even at 200watts per channel.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • zane77zane77 Posts: 1,711
    edited June 2013
    I agree get an amp for the 9's. It won't increase the volume like jeremy says but they will sound like they are supposed to. You're expecting your AVR to drive a lot of speakers. Look for an amp, new or used, it will make a big difference. There was a nice Rotel here this past week that had a great price. Oops, sorry just saw your post count, but still look for an amp.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
  • heartystatueheartystatue Posts: 330
    edited June 2013
    Welcome to CP. Is this a new set up? Is this before or after Audessy run. There are things you can tweak on the Onkyo to get more oomph. I have the TXNR809 that I had to do some tweaking on. Need a little more info on what you have done already.
    HT: LSI15, LSIC, LSIFX, Emo XPA-3:biggrin: Onkyo TXNR809, Sony BDP-S500, PannyDMP-BDT320, MIT S1 SC. Mit 73842dlp
    2ch: SDA-SRS 2.3 Fully modded. BAT VK500 w/batpak, BAT VK5I, Essence HDACC.
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,224
    edited June 2013
    Welcome to Club Polk Bigtent!

    Welcome to the reality of the lack of power receivers have for more than 2 speakers. To have your speakers operate to their full potential get a 3-5 channel 200wpc amplifier.

    Good bang for the buck new amps are Outlaw Audio & Emotiva XPA series. Or if you don't mind buying used check out Audiogon for Sunfire, Rotel, Parasound, Nad, B&K, Adcom.

    Recalibrate all of your speakers then sit back and enjoy.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,773
    edited June 2013
    An amp would help but first cover the obvious. Did you set up the receiver ? Crossover....speaker levels ? If your speaker levels are too low, boost them up to 0 or + 2 to see if that helps.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited June 2013
    Thats the way they all are on avr's. The volume is designed on a scale that relates to its mastered playback level. Most soundtracks are supposed to be played back at 85db. This is considered reference level. Your volume level at 85, if calibrated would be reference level.

    I have an 805 whose amp section is almost a clone of yours. And JMCinko is right. 70 or so is close to "reference" level and I'm running more efficient speakers in M-70s up front. These loudness scales are not linear--they don't increase the loudness in constant increments, as you get higher the dbs jump more and more till the amp clips. So That last 20-30 on the scale is more than you think.

    That said. Rti towers can use more amplification, as noted above. Get a good power amp and you'll be fine. For me the 805 rocks the M series fine. But I do run it at 69-74 out of 99 on movies.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,552
    edited June 2013
    Since the SPL (sound pressure level; volume) is dependent on the speaker efficiency and room size, the volume settings on any device is only a reference for your eyes. Other than that, it means nothing. A setting of 40db on my system will give a completely different SPL than with your system. You need power to give high, distortion free volume, and speakers to handle that power. Buy a SPL meter to measure the actual volume. You will see that the actual volume (SPL) has no resemblance to the volume setting.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1 - X1 power supply
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,354
    edited June 2013
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Since the SPL (sound pressure level; volume) is dependent on the speaker efficiency and room size, the volume settings on any device is only a reference for your eyes. Other than that, it means nothing. A setting of 40db on my system will give a completely different SPL than with your system. You need power to give high, distortion free volume, and speakers to handle that power. Buy a SPL meter to measure the actual volume. You will see that the actual volume (SPL) has no resemblance to the volume setting.

    Not after calibration. His Onkyo uses audyssey to measure spl and sets the speaker levels to a pink noise equivalent of 75db at 85db on the dial. It is set 10db under 85 iirc because of a 10db gain in dolby soundtracks. Giving you an accurate mastered reproduction at 85db or reference level. If your system is calibrated it will be exactly the same spl as any other calibrated system despite room size, efficiency etc. That number on the dial isn't just a reference for your eye's it actually means something. It tells you how far under or over reference you are listening. If you go into the setting and choose the relative volume scale as I use. It will invert the scale with -85db being the quietest because its 85db's under reference and 0db being the loudest because it is 0db under or over reference. Go further +1 to +16db over reference. Now if you would measure the spl of a soundtrack it would not match the db on the dial because of the dynamics of the soundtrack very greatly, well under and over 85db. This of course does require the minimum power capabilities to be met, to avoid a clipping situation. So again more power means better sound quality, it won't be any louder unless it's setup wrong.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,354
    edited June 2013
    This does not apply to music, there is no standard spl that music is recorded. You will notice newer cd's play much louder than older one's at the same spot on the dial.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • BigtentBigtent Posts: 17
    edited June 2013
    Thanks for responding people. To start at the beginning, I had the use of my brothers old Sony amp. 140wpc. It used to make me want to turn the volume down as it worked the speakers how I wanted them too. It didn't however have HDMI, so I upgraded to the Onkyo. I will admit the sound is far cleaner, I can hear things previously unheard, eg the scrape of a piano key as it is moved down by the players fingers. That side of it is unreal. Have discussed things with my brother, gone over everything we can think of. He has a similar amp, a couple of models up and he doesn't have his over 20 or so to watch HT. I really want the best of both worlds, Sony and Onkyo together.
    Polk RTiA9
    Polk CSiA6
    Polk FXiA6
    Proson rear surr
    2 x SVS PB12NSD
    Pioneer SC86
    Rotel 1575
    RTiA3
    4K Sony 65"
    Sony UBP-X700
  • jon sjon s Posts: 922
    edited June 2013
    Actually, the Onkyo is more powerful than the Sony... Sonys run out of power when all channels are driven, they usually have only 60 wpc because of their small power supply. The Onkyo will deliver about 110wpc all channels driven.

    I had a Onkyo TX-NR906, and my volume level was about the same as yours. BTW, the Onkyo volume control IS linear... So, 50 to 70 will be a 20dB difference. So going from 70-80 will be 10dB difference or about 10x the power.

    Of course, a speaker's characteristics does not mean that 0 is 100% volume on one speaker vs. another. A lower impedance speaker may max out at a lower volume level because of current demands.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,773
    edited June 2013
    I feel this has more to do with being a setup issue first and power second. You can't rely on the automatic calibration to get it right, you have to check the settings and adjust to your satisfaction.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
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