Questions on HT, from a guy that knows nothing about it.

naturallight

Now i'm not an HT nut, not sure if i really care about it that much at all. BUT, the movies and stuff, the volume on the dialog is to low the music is to loud, a major pain in the butt. I have to sit with the volume control in my hand, going up and down on it. So there must be a better solution to this.



Now my new room will be 11'3" x 13' 11" Now the new Panasonic Plasma, 60" will be sitting on the 13'+ wall. I will be sitting facing it across the 11' area. The reason for this is because there are large windows on one side of the 13'+ room and door openings on the other side. Now i could probably just get away with a Polk sound bar setup. But i also have speakers sitting around doing nothing. Now i have an old set of large Advents which i redid. They work fine. Probably the easiest to push, and all i need is a center channel speaker, than a reasonable HT receiver.



But i also have a set of RTi12's, which once i fix my SDA's...will not be used. Now the problem with these, is i think there just too big for the room, plus you really need a separate amp to power them, to get any good sound out of them. I would NOT put any more speakers in the room, except the 2 fronts and the center channel if that helps. I'm just not that much into this, i just want to hear the dialog and at least some descent sound from the music...thats about it. Don't want my socks blow off by explosions or anything else. I also don't want to spend more then 1K MAX...for any center channel+ receiver deal.



Now the Polk sound bar may be the way to go, but i'd like some info from people who are into this, and what i could do with this room.

Thanks.

Mystery

I'm familiar with this problem.
Due to neighbors, I always have to hold remote and decrease when action/music scenes come in the movie.
However, center channel is a must for dialogues and I increase level of center (CS350) with respect to fronts and surrounds.
That definitely helps.

Also, you can power RTi12 or even SDA with HT receiver as long as it's not the BOTL crappola.

I have used/using CRS+, 2B, Boston A400 and Vandersteen 1 with Marantz SR5500 HT receiver and also an old Denon 85watts prologic receiver and I have never been able to go past 9 O'clock on the Denon and below 20 on Marantz even when neighbors are out.
It's just gets too loud in a small room like mine.

But I did try a crappy Sony HT receiver at one time and the same speakers sounded like tin cans.

Also, no speaker is big for a room. :cheesygrin:
I know it's a messed up setup right now until I get rid of few pairs but here is my current setup with big speakers in a very small room (~12x13).

D_M

Naturallight,

Like you said, your just not that into it. Get the sound bar and call it a day.

jbooker82

I would use the RTi's, and a matching CSI. Receivers also have a dynamic volume and late night settings that boost the voices and cut back on explosions.

specd_out

jbooker82 wrote: »

I would use the RTi's, and a matching CSI. Receivers also have a dynamic volume and late night settings that boost the voices and cut back on explosions.

Yea thats what I was going to mention. It also goes by the name DRC. Its an evil word for HT enthusiast but if it bugs you its better then just tv speakers

rpf65

In my opinion, a sound bar sounds a little better than most tv speakers, and that's about it. Bought one for a cousin to use in a kitchen, but only because here tv speakers really were that bad.

I would go with a 3.1, maybe an 8 inch sub,since explosions aren't your thing. The Advents would work, if you can find an acceptable center, but I have no clue of which one, if any would work. You may want to try the Monitors, add a center, and look at the Pioneer SC 1522. I think that would work, be under you 1k budget, and if it isn't firm maybe a DSW 500 series sub. Probably put that together for around 1200.

I would strongly advise a sub on an HT rig. You can always lower the sub volume if it gets annoying, but keep the dedicated LFE signal. In isn't just explosions sent to the .1 channel. As far a dialogue being quiet, simply boost the center a db or 2, from whatever auto-cal program the AVR you decide on sets it at, and all should be good.

naturallight

OK..sorry guys..i just don't get it.???? Are you saying i need a HT receiver to control the dialog VS music volume??? The 12's seem like massive over kill, and don't work that great on a low powered AVR. They seem too big for the room to begin with.



Would the Polk Sound bar work?? Can i control the volume from the dialog VS the music stuff??

I don't have a clue, your talking to an old 2 channel guy...so i'm just guessing.
Sorry, your talking to an idiot when it comes to HT.

pearsall001

Sell it all & stick to your 2 channel. You'll just get frustrated especially when your heart's just not in it. Get yourself a ZVOX speaker system & call it a day.

jbooker82

Yes you need a ht receiver so you can control the dialog. I don't think very many stereo receivers can seperate dialogue out to boost the volume. I bright speaker will also make for clearer voices.

jbooker82

Buy a desent ht receiver and see how you like the dynamic volume settings with each pair of speakers. Then look for a matching center channel on what ever you decide to go with.

Upstatemax

Just a quick look:

Polk RTi A1/3 - $220-285
Polk Csi A4 - $170

Both from Polk Direct eBay store.

Then the Denon AVR-2313 is on sale at Crutchfield for $600.

cnh

Get a decent HT receiver with pre-outs. Onkyo/Marantz/Denon from accessories4less.com refurbed at a good price. Buy a Polk CSi-5 center. Set your AVR for 3.0 and run either the SDAs or RTi-12s as L/Rs.

Down the road you can add a SUB, more speakers and more power. But 3.0 would give you a decent movie experience in a smallish room.

cnh

Geoff4rfc

naturallight wrote: »

OK..sorry guys..i just don't get it.???? Are you saying i need a HT receiver to control the dialog VS music volume??? The 12's seem like massive over kill, and don't work that great on a low powered AVR. They seem too big for the room to begin with.

Would the Polk Sound bar work?? Can i control the volume from the dialog VS the music stuff??

A sound bar just might be what you want. I think you'll have a return window if it doesn't meet your expectations, then you'll be able to pursue option B.

Your room is not that much smaller than the temporary place I'm in right now. My Plasma and RTiA9's are on an 11' wall and my seat backs are 12' from the display (I have another 3' behind the seats with rears).

I have a pretty decent sound going on and IMO is in no way overkill. So you might consider placement and set up with your 12's to see what kind of sound you can achieve.

Some good ideas about snagging a refurb AVR with enough juice to push your 12's, in that room you won't need a ton of power.

What kind of SDA's do you have? And btw, don't be so hard on yourself, idiots don't ask for help.

Jimbo18

naturallight, I have an inexpensive 5.1 setup for home theater and a 3.0 in the bedroom for music and TV and the 3.0 sounds pretty good. It's easy to set up, costs less, and if you aren't that into HT anyway and have a couple options for fronts, I would go that way if I were you.

As the others said, the AVR can help you to increase the volume to the center channel for voices without increasing the volume to the fronts, and there are settings even on lower end AVRs for night time and DRC (Dynamic Range Control) which further boosts the center without increasing the fronts.

Most decent AVRs will come with a mic and some type of auto-setup program which you can use to set the speaker levels and then you can manually adjust them to suit your ears. For the most part, I just increase the center a bit over what the program suggests to increase the voices.

With the speakers you already have, you have lots of choices so you need to decide which you like better. It sounds like you would rather go small and easy, in which case, and I know this won't be a popular opinion, you could go with the Advents, but would have to figure out a center to go with them. I would go with cnh's suggestion myself. Wish I had the "problem" you have making the decision. GL.

naturallight

OK guys, thanks for the info. Seems like i pretty much need an AVR, to control the dialog VS music volume. The built in Panny speakers work ok for most normal shows coming from the cable. But once you put on a Blue Ray, or any DVD then you pretty much have to sit with the volume control in your hand. Not alot of fun.

The SDA's are 1C's, but those will never leave my 2 channel room. So the choice would be either the Advents, or the RTi12's. The 12's work fine in my large music room. But there also being pushed by my Onkyo M-504 power amp, which is going to stay in the music room.

I'm not sure the 12's would sound all that great with an AVR, but you never know. If i'm only pushing the 12's and a center, it may work. I also don't think you could turn this up much either, i would think the volume would be overbearing for just watching a movie. But i've never done this before, so i just don't know.

I have plenty of time to research an AVR, this will not happen till the end of Oct,

Thanks again for the info.

Geoff4rfc

naturallight wrote: »

I have plenty of time to research an AVR, this will not happen till the end of Oct,

Thanks again for the info.

Now you're talking. Too bad about your SDA's not leaving your 2ch room, I was kinda hoping you needed them to come visit me

halo71

Mystery wrote: »

I know it's a messed up setup right now until I get rid of few pairs but here is my current setup with big speakers in a very small room (~12x13).

Dib's on the BA's! :cheesygrin:

Mystery

Don't get a soundbar.
They are overrated unless you spend a lot.
Only if you don't have space for speakers, get a soundbar.

jeremymarcinko

Your bluray probably has settings for dynamic range. And be sure its setup to output 2ch.

naturallight

Well the soundbar, sounded like a cheap and easy fix. But in reading about even the Polk soundbar, there does not seem to be a way to control the Music Vs Dialog volume. Unless i'm not understanding what i'm reading (which could be true). It would seem the only way to do this is with an AVR.



If i'm getting any of this right, is the AVR directing all the dialog to the center channel?? (or at least most of it?) If so then you pretty much want the best center channel speaker you can get, right??



So if thats right , then your left and right front speakers, are doing minimal dialog, mostly back round music to the movie? If that is the case, i know you guys talk about "timber matching" the speakers. Now i can see that for the surround speakers and such, but for the center channel which i "assume" is all dialog, why would that matter much? To my way of thinking, i should be able to use the SDA, or 12's or the Advents, it should not make much of a difference. To me, the Advents would be the first choice. They don't need 200 watts to make them sound good. They are very musical speakers and will get loud, far louder that i would want back round music for a movie to be.



Or am i completely wrong and not getting this at all???

naturallight

Now follow my logic here for a min, on using the Advents. Keep in mind this is only a center channel and the 2 front speaker setup.

Right now i have the 12's down in my music room. It is a large 17x30 room. The 12's work very well down there. Will get VERY loud and give you plenty of bass. BUT they are also powered by a large high current amp. They also sit a foot off the back wall, and fire strait ahead in the room. They don't seem to like being toe'd in, in this room. I also sit 15 feet back in that room.



Now these speakers are not small, at all. They would be going in a room that is only 11' across. When i sit down in that room, at most I'm only going to be 9 1/2 feet away from the TV, 10 feet max saying i have the chair right up against the wall. The 12's want to be 1 foot off the backwall, that will put these way out in front of the TV. Then your dealing with the AVR. How well the 12's will like a 80-100watt AVR, i don't know (assuming your really getting that much power running a center channel also). How much bass you would get out of them..again, i don't know.



Now, if you put the Advents in that same room. You have none of the problems. The Advents don't need to be 1 foot off the back wall, in fact if you put them right up against the wall you get more bass.

They will not stick out in the room. They will work fine with an 80-100 watt AVR. They will get very loud in that size room and in fact may give you more bass, with that type of wattage then you would get out of the 12's.

Now unless my understanding of how HT and these AVR's work, is all wrong. The Advents should work???

Jimbo18

I think it will work fine but the problem of the center channel remains. Maybe you could try a Baby Advent or some other small vintage Advent that has the same, or similar tweeter to the fronts you will be using.

naturallight

Ok, this is were i'm totally lost. If the center channel is just dialog, then what do the tweeters from the fronts that are "supposedly " playing back round music to the movie , have to do with the center channel dialog???



What your telling me is if i don't use Polks, for the fronts, i can't use a Polk center channel.

Like if i had Totems for fronts..then i need a Totem center, not a Polk. But I have to ask WHY??

If it's just Dialog..what difference does it make????

zane77

The center isn't just totally for dialogue. Picture if you have some other kind of event happening in a movie and it is panning from the left to the right, you want to try to timbre match the fronts so it pans smoothly acroos the front soundstage. This isn't quite as important for th surround speakers, but I don't think you were talking anywhere about adding surrounds

naturallight

OK..so what your saying is....the center is just not dialog, there is more going on, as with music and such. So it can pan from the left speaker thru the center, then to the right speaker. Sort of an SDA effect type thing, to put it simply. So in that case, yeah, i understand that all the speakers should be some what matched up.



Really..ALL i want out of this setup, is to hear clear dialog, without having to turn the volume up and down all the time, so i don't get blasted with music, or can't hear the dialog.

Thats IT..nothing more. It would seem a simple request..but all i see is dollar signs to make this work right. My best guess right now. I will call polk, tell them what i want, and if the surround bar 6000 will do that for me. I will give it a shot. If it doesn't work, then i will send it back, and i'm back to an AVR.

gudnoyez

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_729ZB580/ZVOX-Z-Base-580.html?tp=47366&awkw=25916993545&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=6682368745&awdv=c

All you need for a room the size of yours since you have a 60' Panny this is the size you need. 120 watt amp with built in subwoofer has the dimensional sound as SDA's and has a sub out for running another sub behind your front stage. our bedroom sice is 12x12 and are Zvox 555 has a 75 watt amp these things sound amazing, go demo the 580 and bring the new Zeppelin Celebration Day Blu Ray you will be surprised how good these sound.









blu

gudnoyez

Here is our 555 with a Sony 36' Google TV you here gunshots behind you on the sides when watching a movie you wanna crank the tunes with it no problem. When we don't want to watch a movie on the dedicated HT rig in the living room , we just go to the bedroom. Check it out. The tv sits on top less clutter and this thing will shake the windows if need be. We can access Pandora, ITunes, or XM radio as the TV is wireless. No need to spend a grand for good sound for a non dedicated HT.

naturallight

OK......now this "seems" to do everything i want. But i don't get it. They say there is 2- 6" plus speakers in there, along with 5 other speakers...how in the hell could that be..in that small a box....unless it's not that small..LOL Then they WANT me to put the 60" Panny..on TOP of the unit??? It kind of sounds too good to be true kind of thing,,,which never works...LOL



Do you have this unit??? Does it do what they say??? No place i could hear this ..all i have is a Best Buy. I'd be willing to try it..IF i could return it.

If you have this up and running...and you like it, i'd be willing to give it a shot.

naturallight

OK the pic that you have is with a 36" tv...the base plate alone on a 60" Panny....is bigger then the box. So how can this work?? How can there be that many speakers in it..unless the box for that size TV is massive???

rpf65

I would suggest that you demo a few sound bars before you consider buying one. I know you're a 2-channel guy, but that is why I'm pretty sure you will not like what you hear.

The timbre matched thing can be a little confusing. The center channel doesn't carry all of the dialogue, but it averages about 80 percent of it. With multi-channel sound, they can direct sound to the speakers, and the amount of sound as they wish. So if somebody is speaking on the left side of the screen, the mix may be 70 center, 20 left, and 10 right. That's why you try to timbre match.

I would suggest you get an entry level AVR, and don't worry about pre-outs right now. Best Buy open box for 300 or less, an a good manufacturer for instance. I would then use the advents for the front mains, and maybe try a Monitor series for the center. It won't be timbre matched, but I think that would still sound better than a sound bar.

There is a really good buy on the CSI A4, at Polk E-Bay,but again it won't be timbre matched. Then again, I think if you hear, and play with an HT set-up a little, small Monitors or RTI A's may be finding a new home. There really isn't much difference trying to get good/great sound quality from 2-channel or HT. Just depends on how far you wish to go. Sounds like you want a little improvement on the HT front, and it's still sound quality you're working on.

gudnoyez

naturallight wrote: »

OK the pic that you have is with a 36" tv...the base plate alone on a 60" Panny....is bigger then the box. So how can this work?? How can there be that many speakers in it..unless the box for that size TV is massive???

the 580 handles up to 120 lbs 65' tv, check out that link in my first post. these things sound damn good. The first link was from Crutchfield here is one from Amazon. You really need to check the 580 out. http://www.amazon.com/ZVOX-580-Low-Profile-Single-Cabinet-Surround/dp/B0055FZIX4